The Existence of God

[Jafar]

This is a very interesting topic.. I think everyone who believe that God does exist should individually perceive why they accept God or is it just a belief? Are we really in a confirmed state of mind that God does exist or we perplex.. If not perplex then what makes you firm that He exists...

In order to know "God" and not merely believe..

1. You need to firmed up what is it that you're seeking, what does the word "God" means to you. And it actually better if you have no preconceived notion about it. Just honestly admit (to your own self, no need to announce it publicly or to others) that you don't know what is it that I'm seeking and I'm open to any possibility.

2. I can only advise you where to look for your seeking, as it will need to be a journey that you need to embark on yourself. The place to look for your seeking is within your own self. Ask the question within your own self to your own self, and be open to any answer or information that you will received within your own self as well. The answer will come... and it will be a wonderful journey.

Once you found the answer, you will then understand why there is no need to tell, convince or even forced other to believe or not believe in the existence of God.

And why sometimes it's relatively better to tell that there is no God to the theist and there is a God to the atheist.
Because both group believe (or not believe) in something that that they don't know what it is in the first place.
With such answer it's hopeful that they will start their own seeking, themselves..
Once they seek, they will find...

[tutti_frutti]

salam

it was logical to me that there is only One God.... we are here, so obviously we were created and there is only 1 creator ...

when i read the Quran for myself .. i realized it was the truth

peace

[jkhan]

Peace all,

I arrived at the existence of God simply by deducing all created things have a creator.

peace

Peace Hawk...

I am not against your view coz that's what triggered you to have strong faith in God... But we live in a practical world... Why do you call "all created things"? How you explain to a person that everything is created if in case he is against it... Will you be silent or would you say something to guard your statement ...

[jkhan]

In order to know "God" and not merely believe..

1. You need to firmed up what is it that you're seeking, what does the word "God" means to you. And it actually better if you have no preconceived notion about it. Just honestly admit (to your own self, no need to announce it publicly or to others) that you don't know what is it that I'm seeking and I'm open to any possibility.

2. I can only advise you where to look for your seeking, as it will need to be a journey that you need to embark on yourself. The place to look for your seeking is within your own self. Ask the question within your own self to your own self, and be open to any answer or information that you will received within your own self as well. The answer will come... and it will be a wonderful journey.

Once you found the answer, you will then understand why there is no need to tell, convince or even forced other to believe or not believe in the existence of God.

And why sometimes it's relatively better to tell that there is no God to the theist and there is a God to the atheist.
Because both group believe (or not believe) in something that that they don't know what it is in the first place.
With such answer it's hopeful that they will start their own seeking, themselves..
Once they seek, they will find...

Rather than complication better the simplicity... According the topic and the author he has tried to explain far away from Quran or any religious book... He simply tried to explain something exists/ed forever for another to exist... Call it God fine... Brother Jafer most in Earth approached religious books to find the God... No harm at all coz it is their choice... But when someone seriously asking such a person who accepted God in his life, "why you believe in God", then he must have an answer that really makes sense for himself and the one questioned.. isn't it? Otherwise for the one who questioned it may only seems non but mere belief... But if his answer propel him to ponder that what he believes in fact a probable fact then he may start to explore in it...

All who believes in God, do you want your belief to be just a belief within yourself without being able to answer simple questions of others.. That's why I really appreciate the attempt of the author of this topic.. He has challenged to debate but no one then tried a little for whatever the reason...

Further don't search God but search existence of things so that you may end up in God's existence..

[jkhan]

Peace Anoush...

Can you accept at least one of the living being is FINITE? If searching everything is difficult, why not try one single creature... For example human being... Is human being finite or infinite? Is that so difficult to know whether we are finite or infinite?

If you find out human is finite, is it not a clue for us that everything is finite? Doesn't every single creature / thing depend on another? Doesn't this dependency makes us to conclude finite?

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.

Here is a brief summary of my journey
My parents have not forced their belief/religion on me or taught me theirs. I was familiar with churches and went there on odd Sundays and religious days like Christmas and Easter.
I wrestled with "GOD" as a student "GOD does not exist",, "GOD may exist", "which GOD of which religion", "why GOD", "free will"," predestination"...etc mainly in discussion with various friends of various backgrounds and religions. But nothing too serious and in hindsight without any deep knowledge of most religions or traditions .
My life took the expected turn of meeting a girl, getting married, getting a job and having our three children . There was no time for GOD or wrestling with the idea. My priorities were the "normal business" of life and its materials.

Then in 2009 while working away and traveling a lot by myself, my "wrestling with GOD" was triggered by the loneliness of the long journeys. I started to listen on the radio to debates/phone ins/talks about religion and Science. This started my curiosity to study further about history and religions.
In 2010 I started to look at Qoran. II suppose I am still on this journey. I
The contents of Qoran had a weird effect on me, like if I was a walking dead waking up from a coma reflected later on here by this post of mine

."It is funny how the majority are "walking dead". Not using any of their GOD given faculties to investigate/analyse/ponder their existence and beliefs!!!!!
Despite reading clearly verses like

God brought you out of your mothers' bellies knowing nothing, and He gave you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brains, that you may be appreciative.
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
Many a generation before them, who were more powerful, we annihilated. They searched the land; did they find an escape?
This should be a lesson for everyone who possesses a mind, or is able to hear and witness.

GOD also says
Those are the ones whom God has sealed their hearts/thinking..., and their hearing, and their eyesight. Consequently, they remain unaware.

Qoran says once we become like deaf, dumb, and blind to the Truth. In that sense, we become like the "walking dead".

How true the words of GOD
Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests.
When you invite them to the guidance, they do not hear. And you see them looking at you, but they do not see."

I suppose this journey is still continuing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ade_cool]

Salam,

A website from a brother who was atheist
http//www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/

http//www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/the-atheists-burden-of-proof.html

Wassalam,

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.

Here is a brief summary of my journey
My parents have not forced their belief/religion on me or taught me theirs. I was familiar with churches and went there on odd Sundays and religious days like Christmas and Easter.
I wrestled with "GOD" as a student "GOD does not exist",, "GOD may exist", "which GOD of which religion", "why GOD", "free will"," predestination"...etc mainly in discussion with various friends of various backgrounds and religions. But nothing too serious and in hindsight without any deep knowledge of most religions or traditions .
My life took the expected turn of meeting a girl, getting married, getting a job and having our three children . There was no time for GOD or wrestling with the idea. My priorities were the "normal business" of life and its materials.

Then in 2009 while working away and traveling a lot by myself, my "wrestling with GOD" was triggered by the loneliness of the long journeys. I started to listen on the radio to debates/phone ins/talks about religion and Science. This started my curiosity to study further about history and religions.
In 2010 I started to look at Qoran. II suppose I am still on this journey. I
The contents of Qoran had a weird effect on me, like if I was a walking dead waking up from a coma reflected later on here by this post of mine

."It is funny how the majority are "walking dead". Not using any of their GOD given faculties to investigate/analyse/ponder their existence and beliefs!!!!!
Despite reading clearly verses like

God brought you out of your mothers' bellies knowing nothing, and He gave you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brains, that you may be appreciative.
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
Many a generation before them, who were more powerful, we annihilated. They searched the land; did they find an escape?
This should be a lesson for everyone who possesses a mind, or is able to hear and witness.

GOD also says
Those are the ones whom God has sealed their hearts/thinking..., and their hearing, and their eyesight. Consequently, they remain unaware.

Qoran says once we become like deaf, dumb, and blind to the Truth. In that sense, we become like the "walking dead".

How true the words of GOD
Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests.
When you invite them to the guidance, they do not hear. And you see them looking at you, but they do not see."

I suppose this journey is still continuing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace GL...
Thank you for sharing your journey... In a nutshell what I understood is that you approached God without religious books initially and Quran paved the way to be convinced... God bless you...

@ GL ...
What is the view of Dependence to know finite things and God ultimately.. For example Sun... Without sun nothing on Earth would survive... After all we need to find everything began or evolved... If everything is dependant then everything has beginning.. Who is not dependant? If everything is dependant then One has to be non dependant on anything...

@everyone...

How easy to say that all living creatures began with one single cell... Then how did that one single cell begin?

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.
You mean dependence to exist by virtue of a necessity/ relation ?
There is only GOD who is independent.
All creation depend on God for their physical existence. Some are unware and do not realise this.
For humans,What is the result of realizing our dependence on God?
When one realises this,It is the same as a little child needing his dependence on his parents/guardians to have security,guidance and protection.

. Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven"

But of course one can also choose to live independent of GOD. In reality they are depending on other than GOD. i.e other gods.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Jafar]

Brother Jafer most in Earth approached religious books to find the God...

Most on earth DO NOT use religious books to find the Creator.
Most on earth were illiterate of any scripts / writing system, yet they do find the Creator.
And the majority of earth living today also do not use religious books to find the Creator.

Ponder on the fact that the creator is all powerful that He / It can communicate to you directly through your own life experiences. Through all images that you see, all sound that you hear, all sensation that you feel. And all of those sensations are happening within you not outside of you. That is why it become a subjective experience.
Thus all you need to do is ask and it shall be answered. The answer might be unique, crafted as personalized experience for you.

Further don't search God but search existence of things so that you may end up in God's existence..

I beg to differ..
As the creator exist when even no-thing exist..
Like I often mentioned, one will find the evidence of the creator's existence once they realized of their own non-existence.
In absolute sense, God alone exist..
That's why God IS

I've given you my advice on where to look, you need to seek it our yourselves..
There's no need to argue or try to convince others...

How you explain to a person that everything is created if in case he is against it... Will you be silent or would you say something to guard your statement ...

The same reply that I've given to you or anyone else for that matter, advice him/her on where to look.
Because truly it's something that he/she need to seek by him/her own self.
And I will not try to 'guard' against anything as I don't see it as any threat at all...

How easy to say that all living creatures began with one single cell... Then how did that one single cell begin?

Cell is merely a basic structure of "carbon based" life form.
There might be other life form which is not based on "carbon".
Virus is a good example of life form which is not based on cell.
Spirit, angel, demon, deities are an example of non carbon-based life form, that's why it's labeled as 'meta-physical' it means beyond physics.

But all of it requires a context of space and time.
Ponder deeper.. since everything requires a foundation of space and time to begin with, otherwise even the word 'begin' will not have any meaning..
Then how did space and time begin?
And what is the state before the existence of space and time?

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
You mean dependence to exist by virtue of a necessity/ relation ?
There is only GOD who is independent.
All creation depend on God for their physical existence. Some are unware and do not realise this.
For humans,What is the result of realizing our dependence on God?
When one realises this,It is the same as a little child needing his dependence on his parents/guardians to have security,guidance and protection.

. Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven"

But of course one can also choose to live independent of GOD. In reality they are depending on other than GOD. i.e other gods.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Yes... That's what I meant... If everything has begun and it means everything has depended on something...

[jkhan]

Most on earth DO NOT use religious books to find the Creator.
Most on earth were illiterate of any scripts / writing system, yet they do find the Creator.
And the majority of earth living today also do not use religious books to find the Creator.

Ponder on the fact that the creator is all powerful that He / It can communicate to you directly through your own life experiences. Through all images that you see, all sound that you hear, all sensation that you feel. And all of those sensations are happening within you not outside of you. That is why it become a subjective experience.
Thus all you need to do is ask and it shall be answered. The answer might be unique, crafted as personalized experience for you.
I beg to differ..
As the creator exist when even no-thing exist..
Like I often mentioned, one will find the evidence of the creator's existence once they realized of their own non-existence.
In absolute sense, God alone exist..
That's why God IS

I've given you my advice on where to look, you need to seek it our yourselves..
There's no need to argue or try to convince others...

The same reply that I've given to you or anyone else for that matter, advice him/her on where to look.
Because truly it's something that he/she need to seek by him/her own self.
And I will not try to 'guard' against anything as I don't see it as any threat at all...

Cell is merely a basic structure of "carbon based" life form.
There might be other life form which is not based on "carbon".
Virus is a good example of life form which is not based on cell.
Spirit, angel, demon, deities are an example of non carbon-based life form, that's why it's labeled as 'meta-physical' it means beyond physics.

But all of it requires a context of space and time.
Ponder deeper.. since everything requires a foundation of space and time to begin with, otherwise even the word 'begin' will not have any meaning..
Then how did space and time begin?
And what is the state before the existence of space and time?

God based religions are Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam etc etc... These people accomadate the majority of people on earth... What they believe is irrelevant but their religions are based on books... How they believe God and how they distort it is totally immaterial... But they belong to a religious group and that is programmed through ancient religious books...
So dear I am afraid I won't agree with you.. So most people came to know God through their ancestors who depended on religious books and not self research of existence of God... They may be illiterate or whatever but at least to hear something, illiteracy is not a barrier...

Your second point.. Yes I agree with you.. Creator exists when No thing exists...
But that's the topic here... You can say and I can say so... But do our saying make sense logically? That's what the author here tried to portray...

Our non existence is far from truth.. While existence of me is physical and spiritual and destine to terminate.. So i exist so do others... I can't agree that budhist phylosopy.. Who am I? Do I exist?... That's pure erroneous way to deduce.. At least for me.. If you feel right.. I am not here to change you..

As I said in my previous thread, I am not here to convince others... That's not my job and I can't do that... What I said is if someone asks a question, just say a meaningful reply rather than just as a belief.. Meaningful replies has strength... That may make people ponder... Coz meaningful replies Has changed lives... Never repeat this in your replies to me, saying don't try to convince others... One may convince in an answer but cannot convince a person.. That's sheer personal choice...

Regarding cell.... Thank you for your thoughts..

[good_logic]

Peace jkhan.
I do not know about others and what they make of GOD. If I exist ,through reproduction, some intelligent being must have created the process of reproducing and created the first human/s.
By this logic of everything created, there can only be one being that is the original, the ever living ,the first and last the absolute GOD/creator.
Regardless of proofs /logic/Science...I see, hear ,think and feel GOD everywhere around me .

I used to think that being independent is normal, society/family teach independence as an aim for the individual. However, in real life ,I needed people to help me solve problems and as quickly as one problem was solved another one or few more started. And there are always big problems that people cannot help with.

Now I rely on GOD, the biggest problem I could possibly have is very easy for GOD to help with, My dependence on GOD makes a lot of sense to me. I have total confidence in saying to everyone to try it if in doubt about it.

All we need to do is open a communication between us and the Creator of the World.

Focus on God more than the problems in life. Refuse to worry!

Thank you Lord for being there for me. Thank you for your blessing and message,
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[good_logic]

Peace All.
Just to clarify "my madness" of believing in GOD and believing GOD, here is a summary of " GOD s existence" that I got from Qoran

I am one of those that now believe GOD exist,I have asked His forgiveness for not realising this earlier in my life and I will do my best to stay devoted to GOD for the rest of what I have left of this life. i am also certain there will be accountability in the hereafter.
Why should I disbelieve in the one who created this earth for me to live on it? The Lord of the universe of course,
God made this earth productive and calculated its provisions to satisfy the need for all the inhabitants.

GOD also set up the laws of our universe and adorned it with galaxies,stars and planets and guards our solar system in a calm area of our galaxy.
Why should I turn arrogant and oppose the truth? I realise that GOD,who created me, is more powerful than anything else and I appreciate His message for my guidance.
I know that all of us humans will be summoned on the day of resurrection to answer to our Lord.
GOD tells me in His message that when I get there my own hearing,eyes and skin will bare witness of everything I have done in my life(All is recorded!).
Can I say to my skin"why did you bear witness against me?" It will simply reply that GOD is the one who causes anything to speak like when he created me human and caused me to speak and now I have returned to Him.

I know there is no way I can hide from my hearing eyes and skin in this life, I also know in the past I thought that GOD was unware of much of what I did.
I also know now that this kind of thinking that GOD is unware will lead to failure and I will be one of the losers if I do.
All the excuses that we can make will not be excused.

I hope to keep listening to Qoran if GOD wills So I proclaim"GOD is my Lord" and I try my best to lead a righteous life (with the help of my Lord)
I also hope GOD will help me succeed. in this life and in the hereafter.
"Who can utter better words than one who invites to God, works righteousness, and says, "I am one of those who surrender/submit (to GOD Alone)"?

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Anything else to add with your knowledge on this caption o dear brothers and sisters

[stillearning]

Salaam

Anything else to add with your knowledge on this caption o dear brothers and sisters

Fascinating topic which, if i was to hazard a guess, the most debated singe topic in human history. Not sure anyone, I certainly cannot, would be able to add anything which would make even the slightest difference to scales of this debate.

However here is my one penny/cent/rupee etc worth

If one accepts that creation had a creator. The creator must have had purpose in creation. If the creator was to be infinite then creation was one of the routes of this infinity.

As 99.9% of human DNA is identical. Then (bit of faith required) if creator exists within creation (as claimed by many faiths). Then maybe the 99.9% or part of is the creator. If creation continues to exist then creator continues. Hence the infinity of the creator.

Can see the flaws ie did creation always exist? who created the creator etc.However these are probably beyond the evolutionary stage of the 0.1% DNA to comprehend.

[jkhan]

Salaam

Fascinating topic which, if i was to hazard a guess, the most debated singe topic in human history. Not sure anyone, I certainly cannot, would be able to add anything which would make even the slightest difference to scales of this debate.

However here is my one penny/cent/rupee etc worth

If one accepts that creation had a creator. The creator must have had purpose in creation. If the creator was to be infinite then creation was one of the routes of this infinity.

As 99.9% of human DNA is identical. Then (bit of faith required) if creator exists within creation (as claimed by many faiths). Then maybe the 99.9% or part of is the creator. If creation continues to exist then creator continues. Hence the infinity of the creator.

Can see the flaws ie did creation always exist? who created the creator etc.However these are probably beyond the evolutionary stage of the 0.1% DNA to comprehend.

Salam...

Impressive and bit different in style... Has a meaning for sure.

Thank you...