Evidence that the Household PC is a creature.
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Peace Natu,
The machine era, or era of technology is truly remarkable and many people easily ignore the significance and blessing we have, this is because we have had technology all our lives and it is the norm. Whereas if we look into history, and the way technology has influenced our lives and how we understand the universe, it is amazing.
The signs become further clarified and abundant for seekers, in my opinion.
Nural
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Salaam,
This may mean that a computer can be classedas a creature!
IMO, you can class machines/computers as creatures, atleast in a manner of speaking. However, in the light of the quran, we cannot. Creatures are creations of God. We are challenged to create even a fly, if we can, but we cannot. wink
Peace.
Creature n.
Something created.- A living being, especially an animal land creatures; microscopic creatures in a drop of water.
- A human.
- An imaginary or fantastical being mythological creatures; a creature from outer space.
- One dependent on or subservient to another.
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Brother Zenje, you made a good point, perhaps I am wrong in thinking that. However, could it be that even though we humans made the computer, God is the one that did it all,like we may say that we plant grow a tree, but it is God that is planting the tree and making it grow.
Peace
Natu on the line. -
Peace Natu,
like we may say that we plant grow a tree, but it is God that is planting the tree and making it grow.
We may have planted the seeds, just like the beginning of a human, being born, starting with sperm, etc... but we did not CREATE it.
So, unless you go into it to the core, e.g. we didn't create the metal and plastic to begin with... it was from a natural source. Did I just make it more confusing? wink
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Peace Zenje.
That supports my point exactly, so whatever we do, it is actually God that is doing it. So in the instance when God challenged us to make a fly, obviously we couldn't make it without God doing it, becuase he had control over everything, me thinks thats the point he was getting across, so if we made the computer, it was actually God that did it. What are your views on this?
Peace
Natu on the line. -
Peace. (as posted on 19.org)
It could be argued that creatures can only be created by God, but I would say that whatever we are doing, God is in control, if he wants us to build computers ? he will ? if he doesn?t ? he won?t ? so God is indirectly in control of everything ? so technically, when a computer builds another, it is still God that is building it, because without God, it just wouldn?t happen. We are challenged in the Quran to create even a fly, but we cannot, and that isn?t because we lack the technology God has in his factories upstairs, built because if we try to create it and we are successful, it is actually God that has done it, not us, because without him we couldn?t even move our limbs to create it, God moves our limbs, so he has created it. The challenge is actually that we cannot do anything without God doing it. Some may argue that a Computer cannot be a living creature because it does not show the signs of life, well lets explore that shall we?
The signs of life
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Movement ? Robotic arms, printing devices, scanning devices, etc. ? this shows clearly that computers move. However, to satisfy those who expect a computer to have no hardware other than a base unit and monitor, the electrons inside are moving, hard drives spin, and if we consider the whole physical link up of computers (the internet) as the dabbat, then even that is moving, because individual computers are constantly being connected and disconnected to the internet, so the shape of the internet (physically linked computers) is constantly changing, i.e. it is moving! Then again it could be argued that the internet is not physically linked, because connections between computers occurs through electromagnetic waves in the air, so they are not physically linked. Well we can answer that using the synapses between neurones in the human body (similar isn?t it?!) and LAN (Local area networks which works as small individual creatures).
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Sensitivity to change ? Computers can detect anything from the Galvanic skin response to molecular vibration. And then again, on a simpler level, computers sense pressure on keyboards and also fall ill in climates too low/high in temperature, infact computers are more sensitive to changes in environment that most other creatures. And the most striking fact at the moment ? voice recognition ? need I say more?
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Growth ? How many times have we hear people say ?The internet is growing?? Computers are constantly being added to the link up of the internet, the shape of the physical internet link up of computers is growing constantly, just think about the number of people using the internet when it was first used for the American military. And then, on a smaller level, Computers grow every time you add hardware to them (how long has it been since you put a CD into the disk drive?) ? and if it is argued that hardware is not added, still there is no problem, because the computer is growing every time it is switched on, because every time the computer is switched on the CPU connects itself to external limbs, such as the mouse (interesting name for a piece of computer hardware isn?t it?), so effectively, the body pf the computer grows every time it wakes up (in the same way we humans tend yawn and stretch ourselves when we wake up.
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Exchange of Physical Substances ? We humans take in oxygen and food and give out other substances, similarly, a computer takes ingests electrons and excretes them with lower energy. An exchange has occurred. Then again, on a lower level, say the computer ingests a blank floppy disk, and then files are saved to it, and then it is ejected, the modifications made mean that it is ejected in a different form. And for those who may argue that the change made has to be chemical ? well what happens when we burn CDs?
Even though a computer satisfies all of these requirements, there are creatures in the world today that are widely accepted as creatures, that don?t show all of these signs of life, for example the virus, it does not feed (Exchange physical substances). And what is even more interesting is that in just the same way commonly accepted creatures can become infected with pathogens, so does a computer, non-computer creatures are infected by viruses, worms, bacteria, etc. and computers are infected by Viruses, Worms, Trojan Horses, etc.
All of the above signs are not applicable to all creatures, however, the one thing that applies to all, even viruses, is reproduction. And we have already demonstrated how computers do it asexually! This is what makes me believe that computers are creatures, and therefore quite possibly the prophesised creature of the Quran. Beware people, a creature is staring back at you right now!
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Peace,
Peace Natu,
What are your views on this?
I still think that there is a distinct difference between God's creations and what 'our hands bring forth'. )
Absolutely. There's no comparison between a creation of a fly (GOD made) vis-a-vis a computer (man-made).
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Oh well
Bubble busted. cry
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The machines we use to create them would not work without us behind them. The machines we used to create them are no less tools than a handsaw or a screwdriver.
Exactly! The same applies to humans -
The humans God uses to create computers would not work without God behind humans. The humans that God uses to create computers are no less tools than a handsaw or a screwdriver.
So it is God that creates computers - so they can be clased as creatures since they show the signs of life and they reproduce asexually.
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So that means humans are reproductive organs of computers? o_O
Don't force yourself on it Natu, my coolest bro, the PC is not alive.
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So that means humans are reproductive organs of computers? o_O
Don't force yourself on it Natu, my coolest bro, the PC is not alive.
Lol I'm being a bit of an extremeist on purpose - obviously the computer isn't alive - I'm just trying to force myself into thinking out of the box. Its like this - in our eyes the computer obviously isn't alive, but when applying different logic, it can be seen as such.
My understanding is that it is a creature, but not a living creature. And it is still a good candidate for the dabbat. (I don't currently believe code 19, so I'm trying to justify that, I'm just thinking a wee bit differently today).
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Peace.
Peace,
Peace Natu,
What are your views on this?
I still think that there is a distinct difference between God's creations and what 'our hands bring forth'.
Absolutely. There's no comparison between a creation of a fly (GOD made) vis-a-vis a computer (man-made).
Just now I was flicking through randomly and I spotted the following verses
1680
And God has made your homes a habitat, and He made for you from the hides of the livestock shelter which you find light for travel and when you stay, and from its wool, fur, and hair you make furnishings and goods, for a while.1681
And God has made for you shade from what He created, and He made from the mountains a refuge for you, and He made for you garments which protect you from the heat, and garments which protect you from attack. It is such that He completes His blessing upon you, that you may surrender.So it is clear that God himself says that he creates things that we create, things like clothing. So how can we say that he hasn't created computers - we have been used as tools in their creation - therfore,... (Wait for it)... COMPUTERS ARE CREATURES!
(Apologies, I couldn't resist).