THE THREAD - THE VERSES - THE UNDERSTADINGS - THE CONCLUSION
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Salaamun alaikum all,
IMHO Salat is both physical and non-physical and I would request everyone to view my post in the following thread for the proofs from Al-Quran for the physical part of Salat
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3183&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
I believe that brother Natu is doing a commendable job moderating the analysis of all the pertinent verses one by one but IMO we will be able to reach a better understanding if we analyse all the pertinent verses at the same time and to present all the proofs simultaneously to arrive at our understanding of the nature of Salat. Allah advises in Al-Quran
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
1699 So, when you study the Quran, you shall seek refuge with God from Satan the outcast.
16100 He has no authority over those who believe, and who put their trust in their Lord.May Allah guide us all,
Peace,
Tanveer
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Peace,
It appears that whatever thread we lookat, when we don't look at each verse independantly (with thorough cross referncing), the debate loses all objectivity, and people just end up oposing eahco hters 'interpreations' of the Quran ollectively, and in some we even see people being called idol worshippers. This approach, in my opinion eradicates the problem. it may not be as 'fun' as the usual method, and it may not be as quick to reach conclusions, but it is definitely getting there. All we need really is people who strongly accept physical salat, so that we can have a more balanaced debate. Thanks for your support.
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Peace brothers Wakas, Natu, all
IMHO if we uphold a Salat with both the physical and non-physical elements in accordance with Al-Quran, only then we will be able to achieve the WASAT/balance/best or the ALSALAAT ALWUSTA. I think that will be the only way to unite all of us and prevent sects.
Brother Wakas thank you for the welcome and your excellent comments on my post in the other thread. Can you please comment on my response at that thread.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3183&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace be upon you,
Have you considered that Bacca and Baytullah is the same place as Samaritans call Beth El? Most of them lived in the valley of Shechem between Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal.
Their belief is that Abraham built in Shechem the very first altar for the one God and archeological excavations at the Mount Gerizim supports this affirmation.
I think these webpages are really interesting.
http//www.ourfatherlutheran.net/biblehomelands/palestine/nablus.htm
http//www.netours.com/2003/balata.htmHere are some pictures
http//www.ourfatherlutheran.net/biblehomelands/palestine/palestinepix/gerizimexc.gif
http//www.ourfatherlutheran.net/biblehomelands/palestine/palestinepix/geriz-ebal.jpg
http//www.netours.com/2003/shechem_files/balata.jpg
And this information about Samaritans beliefs I found it useful
http//www.the-samaritans.com/articles8.html
Take care brothers and sisters and may Allah guide us to the truth.
Ma'a salama,
nur
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Peace.
Before we put up a conclusion on this verse, let me elaborate o my current position this far in the discussion. I have now come to understand that we cant just lay it all off as commitments, becuase the times are there. "Orations" seems to fit, but I still have a few issues.
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What is the difference between reading and Oration?
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Is oration enough? I mean, I'm not too convinced that reciting the Quran in a moderate tone would be of much benefit, but then again perhaps that is how it is supposed to be a happiness for the heart. And would it have the same effect if translations are oratd insetad for those who cant read arabic at all?
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Peace be upon you,
Just wanted to offer agin my understanding, not sure which verse we are up to, but it really does not matter because my position fits all of the verses, not just a few here and there, nor does it contradict anything as "commitments" does.
Salaat = Process. We are to maintain the process and bring forth purification. It is the process of meditation(contemplation of the Universe) that brings the conscious and subconscious in union (merging of day and night).
It only takes one to do a good study of meditation to see the connection. Indeed this is a confirmation of what came before it!
It is the state of TRANCE that I urge you all to study, realize that all of our conditionings we have are in us because we took them in while in TRANCE. Trance is something we go into everyday (day dreaming, very emotional, etc) and the way to CAHNGE BEHAVIOR is to reprogram your self. Salaat is the process. The process by which we reprogram ourselves and remove all wrong programs (bring forth purification).
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Peace idolfree.
If I'm not mistaken, you discussed this in a thread earlier, referring to all the verses, which thread is this? Could you please provide a link so we cancheck it out?
BTW, i remember when I first joined free-minds forum and I used to read the threads, but I was always reluctant to answer to your becuase your avatar was so intimidating! (Remember the golden statue of the falcon?) - but now I feel a lot more comfortable talking to you. Thanks for working in this thread, you efforts are much appreciated.
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Peace be upon you Natu,
If I'm not mistaken, you discussed this in a thread earlier, referring to all the verses, which thread is this? Could you please provide a link so we cancheck it out?
I have not updated this in a while, but here is the thread listing the verses. PLEASE give me any and all feedback, especially any concerns/disagreements.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1695
BTW, i remember when I first joined free-minds forum and I used to read the threads, but I was always reluctant to answer to your becuase your avatar was so intimidating! (Remember the golden statue of the falcon?) - but now I feel a lot more comfortable talking to you. Thanks for working in this thread, you efforts are much appreciated.
Intimidated?? shock No, no need to feel that way with me brother. I strive for Peace through righteousness. D The Bird was "Heru" of the Kemetic Philosophy. It represents the WILL of man. Man is born weak, imitating everything, then the WILL is BORN, this is the virgin birth. This is what Isa, son of Marium signifies, and is also what that Bird signifies. It is when you are able to truly SEE, remember it is not blindness of the eyes, but the heart we are talking about here. Coming from the African American tradition, I feel at home using African symbolisms, especially when they are in agreement and confirmed by this great reading(quran).
I actually did not intend for my avatar to disappear, that was not my doing. D
Lastly, thank you for keeping the WILL of this forum alive with your focused energy. I hope I can , THIS TIME, help to keep it going.
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salam Natu and all.
Thank you for your kind words Hussein.
And WE (GOD) made the house a place of return to the people and Safety.
I would disagree that here it is referring to the house, becuase the verse itself does not make clear which house this is, nor does the context of the verse. Technically, wherever 'the house' is, we cannot all return to it, becuase we don't all come from the same house. Perhaps it may be better understood as 'system' -
the word for 'system' is 'deen', right . a word already used at many places in the koran , so if in this verse it was supposed to mean "system" the word ' deen ' would have been used , what do u think .
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Peace,
the word for 'system' is 'deen', right . a word already used at many places in the koran , so if in this verse it was supposed to mean "system" the word ' deen ' would have been used , what do u think
.Deen= order, not system. "Master of day of deen" 13
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Peace be upon you ,
The "house" is for all people because it is METAPHORIC. The "house" of the God is a place where we transcend all thoughts and emotions and listen (hear and obey) the word of the God. Certainly all people cannot fit into a Literal house, and the God is not a "Thing" that requires a physical house.
