2:238 and 2:239 rebuttal of commitments?
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, I have been debating against commitments for a long time. Think of it this way,
Salaat = process
It is the process of enlightenment that comes from weighng evidence. If you think of a scale, there is always two sides. Most people in life make judgements (beliefs) looking at one side of the story, but the God creates in pairs, ALL THINGS. Remember the story of 99 sheep and one sheep, we must look at BOTH SIDES, that is where we get the ability to be BALANCED. Salaat is the BALANCING PROCESS (Al salaat al wusta), it brings enlightenment(learning process).
Please ponder deeply on what is being said.
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Commitment
The act or an instance of committing
- A pledge to do.
- Something pledged, especially an engagement by contract involving financial obligation.
The state of being bound emotionally or intellectually to a course of action or to another person or persons a deep commitment to liberal policies; a profound commitment to the family
If its to be translated as 'commitments', then couldnt salat merely be commitment to the deen that is Islam, which involves following God's commandments? (most of which are outlined in the early chapters)
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Peace be upon you Idolfree
It seems reasonable but does salaat have a "process" meaning? If you tell me how you came to that conclusion, I'll be glad.
Thanks...
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My latest understanding of these two verses
002.238
Guard strictly your orations, especially the best blessing (al quran); and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).002.239
If ye fear, (establish the oration) on foot, or riding, (as may be most convenient), but when ye are in security, celebrate Allah's praises in the manner He has taught you, which ye knew not (before).Peace...
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peace be upon you born_again,
Thank you for sharing your take on 2238. Excellent work! If I were to translate it, I would opt for a more strict literal translation however
Preserve/guard on the orations/bonds, and the most balanced oration/bond, and stand/persist to/for The God in obedience.
The context prior to 2238 discusses formal/public orations/vows/bonds. The core meaning of these orations/vows, as implied by the root, are to go/turn towards in a close/positive manner. This view is given further weight by the use of "QaNiTeena/obedience" at the end of the ayat/sign. And the reference of "the most balanced oration/bond" (i.e. al/the quran/reading) provides a perfect link for 2239.
Wakas
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htm
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
These verses have been confusing me for some time, All praises due to Allah, we solved it. Now standing (for oration) in 2238 and the fear that causes us to establish salaat on foot or riding makes perfect sense.
Peace...
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2238
Guard your commitments and the balanced/just commitment and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).2239
If ye fear (an enemy), on foot, or riding, (as may be most convenient), but when ye are in security, celebrate Allah's praises in the manner He has taught you, which ye knew not (before).The first ayat is ok, but the second one is not. "On foot and riding" impairs the chance of slw of being commitments?
Peace
There are four years now that i have believed that "on foot or riding(rijalan wa rukbanan)" must be a kind of idiom meaning "as convenient" or "partially" or "not fully" or similar...this because the sentence "and when you are secure perform as he has taught you what you didnt know" imply that somewhere else in the book He has said or explained or taught us to perform by being stationary or standing stil...
Since i havent found such an instance in the book i have prefered to believe that its an idiom not recorded in the dictionaries and is reffering to commitement(s)in regards of marriage/woman ties or obligations previously mentioned in the passage and/or obligations toward The God in general).....
however, last month when i have recieved Lane dictionary i have found that rijlan can mean exactly this -PARTIALLY ..i also think it may mean with one leg(similar to when we say in english- half assed-meaning not fully concentrated or not with full streght etc., i just havent checked this second meaning yet)
however, i stiil have some doubts, rijlan although has the same root as rijaalan has a slightly different ortography ..however i doint think its a great problem since ortographgy might differ from script to script...correct me if i wrong
best wishes
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Salaamun alaikum brother Zlatan,
because the sentence "and when you are secure perform as he has taught you what you didnt know" imply that somewhere else in the book He has said or explained or taught us to perform by being stationary or standing stil...
Since i havent found such an instance in the book
The instances in Al-Quran where Allah has said or explained us to perform being stationary or standing still could be the following ayats
?And if thou are with them and you hold the Salat for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard behind you; and let a group who has not yet ?Yusaloo? come and ?Yusaloo? with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. ( 4102)
?The Angels called to him while he was standing 'Yusali' in the temple enclosure ?God gives you good tidings of John, authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?? (340)
?Preserve the Salawat, and the balanced Salat, and stand devoutly for God. But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.? (2237-23
And those who stay awake for their Lord, in prostration and standing. (2564)
As for one who is meditating in the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord. Say "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess understanding will remember. (399)
The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand up to salat, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little. (4142)
Peace,
Tanveer
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Salaamun alaikum tanveermd!
Tanveermd wrote
Quote
Zlatan "because the sentence "and when you are secure perform as he has taught you what you didnt know" imply that somewhere else in the book He has said or explained or taught us to perform by being stationary or standing stil...
Since i havent found such an instance in the book"The instances in Al-Quran where Allah has said or explained us to perform being stationary or standing still could be the following ayats
?And if thou are with them and you hold the Salat for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard behind you; and let a group who has not yet ?Yusaloo? come and ?Yusaloo? with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. ( 4102)
?The Angels called to him while he was standing 'Yusali' in the temple enclosure ?God gives you good tidings of John, authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?? (340)
Zlatan these two verses clearly does not fit the requirements of my challenge... even if there is a possibility to translate qwm in the verses as such( as physical standing) or interpret it as such, nevertheless its clear that these are not instances where the God has explained us or ordered us to do so...the first verse is a description of shortening and not introducing a praxis or giving an order to be stationery or to stand erect while performing the salat...they already knew how it is regularly done before the revelation of the verse(moreover there are other ways to translate qwm here which i think are more suitable, nevertheless, even if we take it as you cited the verses does not fit the requirements of the challenge)
The second verse is a description of Yahya and also has nothing to do with the giving orders or with the introducing the obligation of standing or being stationary in the salaat ....(moreover i doubt the physical standing was meant in this verse more correct translation here would be i think to be devoted , to keep awake, keep vigil and similar)
?Preserve the Salawat, and the balanced Salat, and stand devoutly for God. But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.? (2237-23
Zlatan yes this verse is the best candidate however i think it also does not fulfil the requirements of the challenge....or at least its very hard to me to see how could it possibly fulfil it...
Its glaringly obvious that when this verse has been revelead, that they already knew how the salat is to be done....and now they have been only reminded to guard it, watch over it preserve it....thus, this verse also does not fulfil the requirements of the challenge...it could only work if the term salat includes in itself or understands or comprises the notion of standing or being stationary.... for now(though it could be due to my ignorance) i think this word does not comprise such a notion....
to fulfil the requirement of the challenge there should be the verses saying(for example)" when you want to perform the salat you should stand and ...etc...(of the best candidates for this might be 1778 aqimisalata-in the case if it could be translated as "stand during salaat"... but i doubt it)
Besides, thought I am not a great knower of arabic, i think that the expression qumoo lillahi qaaniteen clearly has a non-physical or methaphorical meaning of keeping awake or being constant, ready and watchful or of expressing/showing the respect for the God by being obedient/submissive/devoted...best wishes
Zlatan
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And those who stay awake for their Lord, in prostration and standing. (2564)
As for one who is meditating in the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord. Say "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess understanding will remember. (399)
The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand up to salat, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little. (4142)
these three verses also do not fulfil the requirements of my challenge i.e. they are not the verses in which we are ordered or explained to be physicaly erect or standing or stationery while performing the salaat
best wishes, Zlatan
