I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
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I agree in one sense that we are children of God only in the sense that we are His "creation". See, this is where I would disagree. I do not believe everyone is God's child. Just because God is the creator of all does not automatically mean that all people are God's children. I am only God's child because He has adopted me into His family. My sin has separated me from God and I need a mediator. That mediator is Jesus Christ. He died in my place so that I could become a child of God forever.
Then this is among the key differences of our view.
I don't believe but I know that everything is God's children.
Every finite things is a part of infinity.
There are no things which is outside and can be outside of an infinity.
If a being think that it's possible then I think that being is under his own hallucination that separation is possible.And your sin or whatever cannot separate you from the one infinite creator.
You don't need a mediator because you are always connected and part of the one infinite creator.It's one's own hallucination that he/she/it are and can be 'separated' thus make one believe that he/she/it need an 'internet router' to reach the one infinite creator.
And again the one infinite creator does not need anyone to 'die' or 'suffer' as a condition for His love.
I found such idea to be preposterous.Having said that; I do aware that throughout human history; some group of human seems to be very keen to make a business by playing a role of a 'broker' to the one infinite creator thus came up with such fantasy idea, or should I say 'blatant lies'. It's like creating the demand for his product, creating first a problem to create demand for his solution.
In Jesus era, an example of such group was the Judaist priest, the Sanhedrin.
They think they play the role of 'sole mediator' to the one infinite creator.
The group who beheaded Jesus's cousin and the group who captured and punished Jesus with death punishment.This group of practitioner of organized religion viewed Jesus and his cousin as a threat for their business.
A threat for their well being, a threat to their power, control and influence over Jewish population.Because Jesus and friends group message was message of unity and not separation from the one infinite creator.
The Father is accessible by everyone, the Father knew one's prayer even before he/she said it.
When everyone can reach the Father easily and directly, there is no more need of a mediator isn't it? no need of a priest.
Thus a threat to the priest's businesses.But as time progress, and Jesus group left from this physical world.. the same pattern continues..
A Church then being setup to play the same businesses model as the Sanhedrin.
A council of Islamic cleric are being setup in the exact model as the Sanhedrin.
War among religion is basically a struggle over power and influence... each claiming the 'divine right' as sole mediator to the one infinite creator.
A role which actually nobody are in need of.Just like the Sanhedrin they play the same game and employ the same tactics.
A tactic based on GUILT and FEAR.
Threat, punishment and torture become their tools to keep their flock of sheep inline.Okay I would love to know what you mean by "God" then. I am referring to God Who is a person. All-powerful, Eternal, Sovereign, and good.
The one infinite creator which encompasses all things...
No beginning, no end.
The one who also created time and space in the first place, thus has no bound to the constraint of time and space.Perfectly fit the description of Lao Tse's Tao or Jesus Abwon d'bishmaiya.
Do you believe the Qur'an? Or do you pick and choose what you like and don't like? If the Qur'an affirms the authority of the "gospel" and the claims of Jesus,
Nope I don't 'believe' in any of those books.
However I do found that some part of description within those books resonate with me.It would seem that if my view of God is every different than yours, somebody has got to be wrong.
Looks like it might be... but I found it normal since mistake is a mean for one's to learn.
We all learn by making mistakes..Yes. I have rebelled against God. You have too, my friend )
This makes all who have fallen short of God's standard sinners. We rebel against God's law all the time. We prefer to worship ourselves more than God. This creates separation from God! God made everything perfect and good and we chose to go our own way. Now God must punch sin because God is HOLY and GOOD and cannot dwell with sinful humanity. That's why we NEED a savior. You NEED salvation. Jesus said these words; tell me what you think of them "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me." (John 146) This isn't my own interpretation. This is what Jesus Himself said.Nothing is capable for 'rebellion' against the one infinite creator, it's just impossible.
Thus you don't need to worry about the things which are clearly nobody is capable of doing.But again your description above fit the tactics pattern of the 'broker' business.
Induce guilt, create fear and then sell the solution.Have you checked whether this John actually met Jesus himself?
Did this John really wrote what he hears directly from Jesus?
Because I find it odd to find that Jesus is trying to sell his 'sole broker' hood to the one infinite creator.
Looks like Jesus in this John's book has decided to do the same business as The Sanhedrin. )But again thanks for the offer of 'mediator' but I don't need it since I can reach my own heavenly father easily and directly..
And actually so does everyone else...By the way the one who wrote the book of Romans is a man named Paul. He was a Jewish man who was an instrument used by God to write 2/3's of the new testament.
Ah another person... not Jesus himself... and this Paul has met Jesus directly?
Because I disagree with this Paul on many things, to me it seems that this Paul is a confused person.But again everyone is an instrument of the one infinite creator...
Through confusion we can find clarity, through hatred we can learn love, through mistakes we can learn truth.
Somebody need to play the role of the contrast.. to make few things shine and stand out..
We cannot perceive light without the contrast of darkness.To this let me ask you some follow up questions. So are you saying that you get what you deserve? So then are you a perfect person?
Yes... by perfection here means balanced... everyone and everything are perfect in their own way and the role they play.
Does this mean that the better you are, the more of God's favor you get? Can I ask you how that is working out for you? Are you able to live up to God's standards perfectly?
Yes I'm now living out the events as laid out by the one infinite creator.
And things has been working well for me, thank you for asking, and I hope things has been working well for you too.Within those events there are lessons to be learned...
I would say those events has been quite balanced..
That's actually what perfection is; balanced...You are putting a weight upon yourself that you were never able to bear. Do you see? You are making yourself your own savior.
Like mentioned above and earlier, I don't need a 'salvation' from the love of the infinite creator.
You are putting yourself in the place of God. But this always fails because it puts a weight upon us that we are not able to bear so we find ourselves feeling more and more frustrated when we fail. When we do good, we find ourselves judging others self-righteously because they don't live as good as we do.
Are you feeling frustrated?
Because I don't feel any frustration.. and I don't judge things or anyone as good or bad either...
I just observe and try to learn something..."Isn't Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven is within all of us?"
What do you think this means?It means what it said it means..
Kingdom of God is here, there and everywhere.
We are all inside God in the first place, separation is impossible and broker / mediator is not needed.And the easiest way to reach to God is to reach within ourselves..
Thus it's actually reaching in and not reaching out..PS to quote is very simple just put the opening with the marking of bracketed quote and then close it with back slash bracketed quote. Or you can select the text and click "insert quote" button on the editor. It's the button on the second row near the "#" button.
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Hey everyone! My name is Johnny and I am an evangelical Christian. I'm studying Islam and would love to open a discussion about what you believe about Allah and Jesus. I guess to get this kicked off my first question would be a two fold question 1) What is your favorite verse in the Qur'an? and 2) Would you consider the Qur'an to be on the same level as Allah? In other words, is the Qur'an worthy of the same level of respect and worship as Allah Himself?
Hoping to learn from you all and hopefully we can have an open minded discussion.
Plese read
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609978.0
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Hi johny
My favorite soera is 67 al mulk
My favorite verse is 673
'he is the one who created 7 heavens. One above the other. You will never see any imperfection in the creation of the most mercifully. So, look again, do u see any flaws?Is the quran at the same level as Allah?
The noble quran is a book. A book is an object and thus not worthy of worship. On the other hand it is a book containing the word of God. Which makes it the gateway to a connection with the one who is to be worshipped. So while a book is impossible without god, believers are impossible without a book. -
Hi johny
My favorite soera is 67 al mulk
My favorite verse is 673
'he is the one who created 7 heavens. One above the other. You will never see any imperfection in the creation of the most mercifully. So, look again, do u see any flaws?Is the quran at the same level as Allah?
The noble quran is a book. A book is an object and thus not worthy of worship. On the other hand it is a book containing the word of God. Which makes it the gateway to a connection with the one who is to be worshipped. So while a book is impossible without god, believers are impossible without a book.Very interesting.... Why is the verse 673 is favourite to you... Btw my favourite topic is written in the samr verse... I everyday research on that...
Is this what you understand by this verse Sister or something else?
https//i.postimg.cc/xCzVyjV4/IMG-20210813-065640.jpg
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Something like that, yes. I find it comforting, like stepping in a warm bath, that if God's does not make mistakes, then neither am I.
So what is your favorite verse in this beautifull surah?
Thank you... Hope Allah guide us to right path in his creations...
BTW since you ask I would like to say my favorite verse I presume is
1784 "O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah , through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allah is ever, over you, an Observer." -
Interesting verse, but I think you mean Aya 41. The women.
I can imagine that u research that one every day. 'who created you from one soul' or from a single cell or from a single drop of blood, the Quran seems to repete the same message over and over again.
'through whom u ask one and other' we do that a lot, don't we?
Can I ask what your daily research has brought u?
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Interesting verse, but I think you mean Aya 41. The women.
I can imagine that u research that one every day. 'who created you from one soul' or from a single cell or from a single drop of blood, the Quran seems to repete the same message over and over again.
'through whom u ask one and other' we do that a lot, don't we?
Can I ask what your daily research has brought u?
Thank you for pointing out my error... Yes the verse I brought is 41...
But my favourite verse is 1784 Say, "Each works according to his manner, but your Lord is most knowing of who is best guided in way." -
My total interest in the heavens and earth.... I can't wait to see in what shape it is created... That's what I keep pondering every day...
Latest concern for me is... Clouds... Why we see the top of clouds... Silly isn't it? Clouds also setting at the horizon... Amazing... They say ships go invisible in the horizon coz earth is curving... Okay.. Ship is on the surface of earth... But why clouds.. Lol.. If you want why stars, sun moon, and whatever in the sky is setting and go invisible in horizon...
Can you give your natural answer... If you have one...
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As far as I understand the universe is oval in shape and shapes disappear under the horizon because the heavens move with the earth in a specific rotation. But I was never any good in science...
I love clouds, every time I fly I have to resist the urge to open the door and go for a walk
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Hey everyone! My name is Johnny and I am an evangelical Christian. I'm studying Islam and would love to open a discussion about what you believe about Allah and Jesus. I guess to get this kicked off my first question would be a two fold question 1) What is your favorite verse in the Qur'an? and 2) Would you consider the Qur'an to be on the same level as Allah? In other words, is the Qur'an worthy of the same level of respect and worship as Allah Himself?
Hoping to learn from you all and hopefully we can have an open minded discussion.
Are you still around? I read and believe in both the Quran, Gospel and Tanakh.
Favorite verse is 5533, it talks about human beings and space travel. I do not believe someone 1400 years could even imagine such a thing. The Quran are the Words of God, the Words of God come from God, why do we have to seperate the Words of God or compare the Words of God with God..? There is really a "thing" in neo-Christianity where they try to separate the Words of God from God and they like to put Jesus Christ as well in between that trinity.. There are also Monotheist Christians, like me. The trinity is a fabrication man, invented at the Council of Nicea.
God knows everything. But Jesus does not know when the Hour is. So of course Jesus is not God. Jesus is probably the closest to God from all human beings and he was even made higher then the angels themselves. But no creature can be compared with God. Jesus did sleep, did eat, did go to the toilet, died, was resurrected etc. God doesn't do such things. You have been brainwashed so hard.
Please learn Greek if you really care about what the Gospel really says and ask YHVH alone for guidance, the one who created Jesus, who let Jesus die, and who resurrected Jesus after he was crucified and killed by the sectarians. We are all hes children of course if we follow Him. God doesn't only have 1 son, everyone is called a son of God if He follows God and rejects the evil one. -
God knows everything. But Jesus does not know when the Hour is. So of course Jesus is not God. Jesus is probably the closest to God from all human beings and he was even made higher then the angels themselves. But no creature can be compared with God. Jesus did sleep, did eat, did go to the toilet, died, was resurrected etc. God doesn't do such things. You have been brainwashed so hard.
Please learn Greek if you really care about what the Gospel really says and ask YHVH alone for guidance, the one who created Jesus, who let Jesus die, and who resurrected Jesus after he was crucified and killed by the sectarians. We are all hes children of course if we follow Him. God doesn't only have 1 son, everyone is called a son of God if He follows God and rejects the evil one.This relates to one definition of the word "God".
To avoid misconception let's reword the word God to be "The One Infinite".Jesus (or Muhammad or Krishna or whomever) is not "The One Infinite". The reason is all of the before mentioned entities have border, whether it's in time (birth and death) or space (here is me and there is not me).
Based on what Jesus said (although not wrote) in the Gospel, I'm in the opinion that this Jesus personality clearly understood the same concept as well, but he uses different word for it, he calls "The One Infinite" as "Abwon D'bishmaiya" (In Aramaic) which then translated to English as "Father In Heaven".
The english translation doesn't carry the exact meaning in Aramaic.
Maiya in Aramaic usually understood as 'water' or 'fluidic form' to be exact, partly because there is no appropriate word to specifically describe 'air' yet.Thus it actually carries the notion that the "Father" is here and there everywhere, boundless, just like air. That's the background why Jesus even explained that "Kingdom of Heaven" is NOT here or there it can be found inside each and every one of you. Just like air can also be found inside each and every one of you.
Jesus furtherly explained he is the 'son of the Heavenly Father' just like everyone is the children of the 'father'. Since the foundational metaphor is "air" he furtherly explained the word 'soul' as 'nefs' which means 'breath'. Your soul is a part/fraction of the heavenly father's soul, just like your breath is inhaling and exhaling part of the air, which penetrate everything.
With such definition Jesus is not 'closer' to the father than every one else. Everyone is as close to the father as Jesus. Actually a more proper term would be Every-THING as as close to the father. Just like every-Thing is as close to the air.
But unfortunately not everyone realized this yet.
The popular view of Jesus society is that YHVH is outside of us, to reach YHVH we need to go to the temple in Jerusalem and bring offerings to appease him, uses prophet/rabbis as intermediaries to talk to YHVH. And YHVH is a very mean deity, he often punishes people for petty mistakes. Based on the Tanakh it can be deduced that this YHVH is quite a psycho-phatic deity.
In order to transform the view, thus offering the 'opposite' concept, Jesus doesn't use YHVH but uses "Abwon D'Bishmaiaya" instead.
As time progress and Jesus is gone, his figure and teaching is then used by a group of people as a mean to control other people, thus a new religion was born dubbed "Catholicism" (Universal) and endorsed by the Roman Empire, where it's foundation is actually another religion called "Judaism". Ironically the religion which was in opposite polarity to the teaching of Jesus.
That's why one can find many discrepancy in opposite polarities within this bundle of "Catholicism" and further derivative religions based on it. (ie Islam, Protestanism, Orthodoxism, Copts etc..)
This opposition seems to be an 'eternal game', as both need to be offered as an option for one to choose from.
The "IS" cannot be recognized when "NOT IS" do not exist.
The "Light" cannot be recognized when "Darkness" do not exist.
Feel free to choose... -
This relates to one definition of the word "God".
To avoid misconception let's reword the word God to be "The One Infinite".Jesus (or Muhammad or Krishna or whomever) is not "The One Infinite". The reason is all of the before mentioned entities have border, whether it's in time (birth and death) or space (here is me and there is not me).
Based on what Jesus said (although not wrote) in the Gospel, I'm in the opinion that this Jesus personality clearly understood the same concept as well, but he uses different word for it, he calls "The One Infinite" as "Abwon D'bishmaiya" (In Aramaic) which then translated to English as "Father In Heaven".
The english translation doesn't carry the exact meaning in Aramaic.
Maiya in Aramaic usually understood as 'water' or 'fluidic form' to be exact, partly because there is no appropriate word to specifically describe 'air' yet.Thus it actually carries the notion that the "Father" is here and there everywhere, boundless, just like air. That's the background why Jesus even explained that "Kingdom of Heaven" is NOT here or there it can be found inside each and every one of you. Just like air can also be found inside each and every one of you.
Jesus furtherly explained he is the 'son of the Heavenly Father' just like everyone is the children of the 'father'. Since the foundational metaphor is "air" he furtherly explained the word 'soul' as 'nefs' which means 'breath'. Your soul is a part/fraction of the heavenly father's soul, just like your breath is inhaling and exhaling part of the air, which penetrate everything.
With such definition Jesus is not 'closer' to the father than every one else. Everyone is as close to the father as Jesus. Actually a more proper term would be Every-THING as as close to the father. Just like every-Thing is as close to the air.
But unfortunately not everyone realized this yet.
The popular view of Jesus society is that YHVH is outside of us, to reach YHVH we need to go to the temple in Jerusalem and bring offerings to appease him, uses prophet/rabbis as intermediaries to talk to YHVH. And YHVH is a very mean deity, he often punishes people for petty mistakes. Based on the Tanakh it can be deduced that this YHVH is quite a psycho-phatic deity.
In order to transform the view, thus offering the 'opposite' concept, Jesus doesn't use YHVH but uses "Abwon D'Bishmaiaya" instead.
As time progress and Jesus is gone, his figure and teaching is then used by a group of people as a mean to control other people, thus a new religion was born dubbed "Catholicism" (Universal) and endorsed by the Roman Empire, where it's foundation is actually another religion called "Judaism". Ironically the religion which was in opposite polarity to the teaching of Jesus.
That's why one can find many discrepancy in opposite polarities within this bundle of "Catholicism" and further derivative religions based on it. (ie Islam, Protestanism, Orthodoxism, Copts etc..)
This opposition seems to be an 'eternal game', as both need to be offered as an option for one to choose from.
The "IS" cannot be recognized when "NOT IS" do not exist.
The "Light" cannot be recognized when "Darkness" do not exist.
Feel free to choose...Was the Injeel originally written in Aramaic? Or was it in Greek?
I went to an Aramaic Church and they told me it's Greek?
It does make sense if it's Greek, because the Israelites rejected Christ and the Injeel was given also to the Romans.
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Was the Injeel originally written in Aramaic? Or was it in Greek?
I went to an Aramaic Church and they told me it's Greek?
It does make sense if it's Greek, because the Israelites rejected Christ and the Injeel was given also to the Romans.
Jesus spoke in mostly Syrian Aramaic, the native tongue of Galilee and Syria , with addition of Greek/Latin (When talking to the Romans) and Hebrew (when talking with Judean, especially the Rabbis). It will be similar to a today's European who speak Dutch, German, French and English choosing the appropriate language to use depending on the context and the people he met with.
Jesus never wrote a book (and so does Mohammad or Moses for that matter) infact none of his students ever wrote any book. It seems Jesus sees writing a book as something that is not important.
Yet he teaches his student on healing, specifically spiritual healing, it seems Jesus put more importance on healing compared to writing a book about his life.
You better wonder why it is so...The book that made it to the 'official bundle' as released initially by Roman Empire was written by Matthew in Hebrew, Mark, a student of Peter. the actual person who met and interact directly with Jesus, in Greek, Luke in Greek and John in Aramaic. There are many other writing materials which refer to the life Jesus The Nozirith and his cousin John which didn't make it to the official bundle as released by Roman Empire.
While the official bundle authorized by Roman Empire was initially released in Greek, since it was 'stamped' in Nicea, (Today it's named as Iznik in Turkey) a greek city where the official language was Greek.
If you're curious and wishes to explore you can find the surviving copies of materials that didn't make it to the official bundle here
http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/And none of it was written by Jesus.
Again.. you better wonder why Jesus sees writing a book about himself as not something that is important.
