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  4. Honestly This topic is leading me to disbelieve

Honestly This topic is leading me to disbelieve

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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    good_logic
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Some commentators like Asad said this

    2 Lit., “who guard their private parts”
    3 Lit., “or those whom their right hands possess” (aw ma malakat aymanuhum). Most of the commentators assume unquestioningly that this relates to female slaves, and that the particle aw (“or”) denotes a permissible alternative. This conventional interpretation is, in my opinion, inadmissible inasmuch as it is based on the assumption that sexual intercourse with one’s female slave is permitted without marriage an assumption which is contradicted by the Qur’an itself (see 43, 24, 25 and 2432, with the corresponding notes). Nor is this the only objection to the above-mentioned interpretation. Since the Qur’an applies the term “believers” to men and women alike, and since the term azwaj (“spouses”), too, denotes both the male and the female partners in marriage, there is no reason for attributing to the phrase ma malakat aymanuhum the meaning of “their female slaves”; and since, on the other hand, it is out of the question that female and male slaves could have been referred to here, it is obvious that this phrase does not relate to slaves at all, but has the same meaning as in 424 – namely, “those whom they rightfully possess through wedlock” (see note 26 on 424) – with the significant difference that in the present context this expression relates to both husbands and wives, who “rightfully possess” one another by virtue of marriage. On the basis of this interpretation, the particle aw which precedes this clause does not denote an alternative (“or”) but is, rather, in the nature of an explanatory amplification, more or less analogous to the phrase “in other words” or “that is”, thus giving to the whole sentence the meaning,….. save with their spouses – that is, those whom they rightfully possess , has the will to be grateful’

    I agree with this explanation.. Believers addressed in these verse are not just Men believers are they?
    GOD bless.
    Peace.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mahdi20
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      Peace good logic……

      Just see the 43 and 3350… asad translated او to OR …. Then somehow in 7030 translated او to That is

      Ok…. Even if i agree that aw=that is

      Just see last part of 3350 as i mentioned

      قَدْ عَلِمْنَا مَا فَرَضْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِي أَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ

      This verse simply seperated azwaj and mma….

      We know what we said about their wives and mma s

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      • J Offline
        J Offline
        jkhan
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        In the Name Of God

        Salam….

        Last 7-8 days were a nightmare for me… ma malakat aymanukum

        i tried to convince myself …. But in everyway i approach it leads me to that the quran allow to a man to have sex with slave without marrige….

        7030 and 236 ….

        Someone may say its refers to married mma , but where is the word marriage? Its different from azwaj(spouse)….

        Some one may say in 425 is talking about marriage with them…. Yes….. but its said you have a option to marriage with them….. it doesnt say marry with them too have sex

        Someone may say in 7030 mma means caretaker or your servant who nurse you… but this verse said mma , not spefiec mma…. Ok… even if we say its about caretaker

        3350 seperated wife and mma

        الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۗ قَدْ عَلِمْنَا مَا فَرَضْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِي أَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ

        As you see azwaj isnt mma….

        I Cant agree that the God allow this horrible thing….

        I have faith in God for sure…. But in quran im not sure…

        Honestly i deserted hadith because of things like this… but Quran have same things…. Go capture enemy women and have sex with them….. i am trying tooooo hard to prove that quran dont say such things…. But i am failed

        May God Lead me to straight patg ( (

        Your disbelief will not hurt or make anyone dissapointed here.. Just your are responsible for your neck..

        You are splitting hair in confusion.. MMA is very clear.. They are not slaves in conventional way.. They are part of one's family but not biological..

        Woman is a prostitute if she doesn't keep a man at a time until she divorce the existing one... But that's not the case with men.. Two different aspects..

        Can you interpret these two verses (423-24) in the sight of women or you prefer to leave as it is and let women look for what or who actually are forbidden in marriage for them.. .. We can't create a new verse out of nowhere..

        Suppose a woman read this verse 0423 " Forbidden to you are...... ..... , And two brothers in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed, ..... "

        Are we allowed to create OR imagine even.. Or God forgot.. You know well.. So let's not create law just coz it was not addressed women .. Let's abide with law which already manifested in Quran..

        Many more you can pick from these verses but I picked only one..... She doesn't need to literally interpret quran in this way but that's what she would perhaps take in the end as a woman if not perceive quran well.. But is that really the law for her?

        No way .. right!
        Here in these verses women are not given law.. But Men only... That's my understanding.. That's perfect for me.. Same chapter 23 or even 70...
        I know all men and women are equal if they are believers.. All are destined according to their deeds.. But when a law directed to men that is for men.. Why God here simply addressed men and given the criteria whom they should not marry.. Men should choose their wife.. It doesn't mean women are deprived from choosing.. Of course they choose ultimately... Don't complicate it ... look at in practical way.. In believing peoples' point of view
        Now with the acceptance, law is given and addressed at men.. Let's proceed..
        Suppose, when a believer wants to marry.. If he has chosen a believjng sister (biological) then it is not allowed.. Forbidden.. Believing sister cannot say that there is no law applicable that I cannot choose a believing biological brother.. In fact in black and white ..No.. Of course she is right, if she says so.. She doesn't need to change verses of Quran.. But as a believing women what she should say.. Look brother.. It has been forbidden for you as believing man to marry a believing biological sister.. Chapter close.. So.. Does believing woman need separate law? Same law is enough.. That's why even in the case of two sisters in wedlock at the same time cannot be interpreted as two brothers at the same time.. That's not the way to look at it.. God is perfect in constituting law...

        235-6 and 7030are directed for men.. Chastity can be breached for them only with partners , and with MMA.. Partners or MMA all after marriage (marriage is criteria) . Law for men.. What's law for women then. Let her remind that her husband as believing man can only breach chastity with her as partner in wedlock as well with MMA in wedlock.. If she witnesses her husband beyond this then she is a pure witness agaisnt her husband as committing illegal sex for which God has prescribed punishment as law..
        When it comes to woman.. Since the law is for men, as believer he knows his partner in wedlock only can have sex with him and she only can have one partner at a time, beyond that is violation and if he witnesses that's worthy reporting for which she deseves legal punishment..

        Isn't that clear brothers.. Why take it so complex.. Or those who make it complex, sexually aroused so that they can be free from it..

        BTW.. Let me not neglect the verse 2431 as well.. Not relevant but ideal explaing together.. Here law is directed toward believing women and not Men.. The right is at the hands of women..
        So in case any believing men approach her while she is exposed with her adornments (refer sister reels perfect) explanation for adornments ) then she should immediately point out ... Get lost from here if you in fact believe in Arrahman.. So.. Believing men should obey her ..
        Can believing men say, that there is no such law directed to us as men that we should not be with you while your addornements are exposed.. Can he say so while she has the law.. And in that law you are not included.. So just get away..

        Perceive how beautifully God has applied law..

        Note @Mahdi20 only..
        In those verses aswaj and MMA are mentioned saying Where is marriage mentioned for MMA.. So impatient you are.. So where is marriage mentioned for aswaj in the same verse.. Why Aswaj automatically becomes marriage partner and not MMA.. Use your logic... So I can also claim, God says in 56 and 7030 Men can breach chastity with partners and MMA.. Regardless they marry or not..

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        • G Offline
          G Offline
          good_logic
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          Peace Mahdi20.
          I see no issues 3350 says

          "O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, and what you already have, as granted to you by God. ..."

          Or do you mean there is a problem with some people marrying more than one woman.

          I agree one will have problems that is why GOD says it is preferable to marry only one.
          GOD advises to do a lot of things in moderation, for less problems in life.
          GOD bless you.
          Peace.

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Mahdi20
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            Peace jkhan

            U said Your disbelief will not hurt or make anyone dissapointed here.. Just your are responsible for your neck..

            I know

            U said In those verses aswaj and MMA are mentioned saying Where is marriage mentioned for MMA.. So impatient you are.. So where is marriage mentioned for aswaj in the same verse.. Why Aswaj automatically becomes marriage partner and not MMA.. Use your logic... So I can also claim, God says in 56 and 7030 Men can breach chastity with partners and MMA.. Regardless they marry or not..

            LoL… brother azwaj means spouse…. And spouse is someone u are married with ….

            Peace Good logic

            U said I see no issues 3350

            Brother i mentioned 7030 and you said او means that is according to asas so 7030 means save their wives that is what their legally posess … so ok azwaj in this verse isnt seperate from mma

            But in 3350 يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ إِنَّا أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَاجَكَ اللَّاتِي آتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمِّكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمَّاتِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالَاتِكَ اللَّاتِي هَاجَرْنَ مَعَكَ وَامْرَأَةً مُؤْمِنَةً إِنْ وَهَبَتْ نَفْسَهَا لِلنَّبِيِّ إِنْ أَرَادَ النَّبِيُّ أَنْ يَسْتَنْكِحَهَا خَالِصَةً لَكَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۗ قَدْ عَلِمْنَا مَا فَرَضْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِي أَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ لِكَيْلَا يَكُونَ عَلَيْكَ حَرَجٌ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَحِيمًا

            At the last part of the verse God said we know what we said about their Wives and theirMMA so its clear that those 2 are different things

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            • J Offline
              J Offline
              jkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              Peace jkhan

              U said Your disbelief will not hurt or make anyone dissapointed here.. Just your are responsible for your neck..

              I know

              U said In those verses aswaj and MMA are mentioned saying Where is marriage mentioned for MMA.. So impatient you are.. So where is marriage mentioned for aswaj in the same verse.. Why Aswaj automatically becomes marriage partner and not MMA.. Use your logic... So I can also claim, God says in 56 and 7030 Men can breach chastity with partners and MMA.. Regardless they marry or not..

              LoL… brother azwaj means spouse…. And spouse is someone u are married with ….

              Peace Good logic

              U said I see no issues 3350

              Brother i mentioned 7030 and you said او means that is according to asas so 7030 means save their wives that is what their legally posess … so ok azwaj in this verse isnt seperate from mma

              But in 3350 يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ إِنَّا أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَاجَكَ اللَّاتِي آتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمِّكَ وَبَنَاتِ عَمَّاتِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالِكَ وَبَنَاتِ خَالَاتِكَ اللَّاتِي هَاجَرْنَ مَعَكَ وَامْرَأَةً مُؤْمِنَةً إِنْ وَهَبَتْ نَفْسَهَا لِلنَّبِيِّ إِنْ أَرَادَ النَّبِيُّ أَنْ يَسْتَنْكِحَهَا خَالِصَةً لَكَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۗ قَدْ عَلِمْنَا مَا فَرَضْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِي أَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ لِكَيْلَا يَكُونَ عَلَيْكَ حَرَجٌ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَحِيمًا

              At the last part of the verse God said we know what we said about their Wives and theirMMA so its clear that those 2 are different things

              Very unfortunate.. You don't understand...

              Nothing to mention about rest of what I have written and only you found aswaj...
              For you aswaj may mean wife... Well fine.. Buy for me.. Aswaj = partner / wife / spouse / mate..

              Not verses 41 or 719 2166 or 3021
              And many more.. I take these verses as partner.. That is to say life partner.. Is it must that one should marry to have a life partner unless someone else constituted law..

              These verses say CREATED for you your partner.. Created? What? Wife created or partner can be created.. A married woman created? Lol.. Partner suits best.. But with law legally bound..

              Adam and his partner... Were they married while they were in Janna.. Read above verses carefully.. That's a different thing..

              Anyway aswaj in 56 and 7030 are partners.. But God applies conditions that you can't have partners without mahar is paid.. In our language marriage..
              With your partner and MMA.. They both simply under category of after marriage.. That's obvious in 56 and 7030.. Apply only to aswaj after marriage is meaningless while charity depends only in sex..

              That's all.. Make it or break it.. All Your choice..

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mahdi20
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                Peace

                Its hard to accept for me that all of the translators did a mistake by translating azwaj as wives and spouses in this verse

                https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/70/30/

                وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

                This verse…..

                MMA are nisa… arent they?

                This verse says if you feat that cannot be just to orphans marry 2-3-4 from nisa… but if u cant be just to your wives… then only one from nisa… or a mma….

                This is about marriage with mma?? U mean this verse say if you cant be just … then marry one nisa or marry an mma?!

                MMA arent nisa=women?

                If its about marriage with mma…. Why this verse seperated mma from nisa?!

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                • G Offline
                  G Offline
                  good_logic
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  Peace Mahdi.

                  MMA has many different meanings. It can mean wives in case of 3350 why?
                  Because it is taking about 2 kinds. Wives with dowries added to MMA -What are already wives before that-. That s all it means.

                  MMA just means-Those you are responsible for - In cases of marriage it means wife/husband. In other cases it is children yours or adopted, servants, people under your responsibility. Sometimes freed slaves are added to that category. It depends on the context and subject.
                  GOD bless you.
                  Peace.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mahdi20
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Peace good logic

                    This meaning have problems too…

                    3350 says وَمَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكَ

                    مما افاء الله علیک , what does it mean?

                    Its the same thing used for booty of war
                    Read 596

                    Peace GA

                    No im not abadoning abraham faith….

                    He was a monotheist and i am monotheist too…

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mahdi20
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      Then what is the "major" and "minor" premises for your "conclusion"?

                      https//external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fittybiz.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FFigure_3.png%3Fresize%3D639%252C396&f=1&nofb=1

                      GENERAL RULE

                      And do not go near to fornication. It is an indecent act, an evil way. (1732) Of all such things, these wrongs are most hateful in the sight of your Lord (173

                      Peace

                      my english is poor …. i dont undestand what you say…

                      i dont get the relationship of picture you have sent with my problem

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mahdi20
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        This is not about "English", this is about "Logic" (Abraham's faith) ... have you study Logic/MANTIQ?

                        If not, then how can people interpret the Quran without Kalaam/Logic/Mantic/Falsafa/Reality etc?

                        What makes them understand those legal issues/justice?

                        Through the Quranist (interpreters) interpretation methodology? rotfl

                        That makes sense to you?

                        "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Quran for just foolish nonsense." (2530) No, the fact is that they have denied something which their knowledge/1117 does not embrace/482 and the meaning/4252-53 of which has not yet reached/1047 them. In the same way those before them also denied the truth. See the final fate of the wrongdoers! (1039)

                        A little…. Not academic….The more i wanted to be logical with quran…. More confusing it gets

                        1-God says i am most merciful, more merciful than your mother
                        2-my mother never wants to see me being hurt, or she doesnt want to see me being burned in fire
                        3-but God says that if you dont beleive in me…. i will burn you in fire forever
                        There is 2 conclusion
                        1-God wont burn me in fire… which isnt truth… he said i will do my promise
                        2-God isnt more merciful than my mother

                        ……..
                        In the case of MMA

                        God says اللَّهَ لَا يَأْمُرُ بِالْفَحْشَاءِ ۖ
                        But in everyway i want to justify the meaning of MMA it is in contrast with this verse….

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mahdi20
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          I dont understand you….

                          U mean God must translate or interpretate Quran!!!??

                          Then How??

                          EditU said Obviously your premises are wrong for it violates this simple rule

                          The verse which u r mentioning is about unlawful sex….

                          What is it relation with logic?

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                          • G Offline
                            G Offline
                            good_logic
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            Peace Mahdi.
                            Ma Afaa= GOD gives/grants/restores...
                            GOD is talking to the prophet. A believer. Once we submit ,we are accepting GOD s will. GOD gives everything we have or takes away. We accept that GOD does everything. This is total submission from a believer.
                            Everything the prophet does is from GOD. So in 3350 and 596 GOD granted and restored

                            GOD granted the MMA to the prophet in 3350
                            GOD restored through the spoils of war to the prophet 596.-Also the believers when they emigrated they lost their wealth- A believer will accept both.
                            Of course we do things,take decisions and receive things,like the prophet did, but in reality it is GOD who owns everything. He gives or takes away according to His knowledge(We call it our efforts/works/things).
                            So in reality GOD is in control.
                            GOD bless you.
                            Peace.

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                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              jkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              Peace

                              Its hard to accept for me that all of the translators did a mistake by translating azwaj as wives and spouses in this verse

                              https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/70/30/

                              وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

                              This verse…..

                              MMA are nisa… arent they?

                              This verse says if you feat that cannot be just to orphans marry 2-3-4 from nisa… but if u cant be just to your wives… then only one from nisa… or a mma….

                              This is about marriage with mma?? U mean this verse say if you cant be just … then marry one nisa or marry an mma?!

                              MMA arent nisa=women?

                              If its about marriage with mma…. Why this verse seperated mma from nisa?!

                              Correction pls.. Not 2166 but 26166..

                              I am very sorry.. I have to say the same thing that GA told.. It is not English bit it is about logic...
                              Why complicate now with new word.. Nissa..
                              Brother.. Allah has not allowed children in marriage... They should reach a period they can perceive well ..read well verse 46.. No child marriage in Quran's law..

                              So God perfectly use the word Nissa.. Woman..
                              These orphans are not MMA.. There could be even in MMA orphans genuinely but here orphans are not MMA.. try to grasp it with flow of verses.
                              These Orphan girls once matured as woman you need to submit their property to them, and you have the responsibility of marrying them off. But if you fear for any of the untold reasons, allowed for the one who was the guardian of those orphans.. But one is perfect since he is already in fear.. So that's a free marriage.. A marriage with a free woman.. Not with MMA..

                              Apart from marrying a single free woman, marry those who are MMA if you want..

                              Does this verse apply directly to women or men.. Law is for men.. Mind that..

                              Regarding translation of aswaj.. Well I don't care what all translators did... I respect them.. They did their job within their understanding..
                              Most of the major translators translated Zakath = financial charity (mandatory)
                              Ummi = illiterate..
                              Who cares.. When God whispers to me otherwise..

                              Aswaj
                              26165-166 "Do you approach males(dhukaran) among the worlds, And leave what your Lord has created for you of partners(zswaj)? But you are a people transgressing."

                              Your headings are so misleading but when we emphasis on that you say with creepy answer "I know"

                              You have decided DESCRPANCY... and you have decided HONESTLY this topic is leading you to disbelieve.. So you heading to a path.. And you claim you believe... But your words describe contrary to that...
                              Anyway.. I can't tolerate with you.. Coz you don't understand my explanation.. If in case if don't understand what I wrote.. I am sorry.. But if intention is something else then.. God bless you..

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mahdi20
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                Peace Mahdi.
                                Ma Afaa= GOD gives/grants/restores...
                                GOD is talking to the prophet. A believer. Once we submit ,we are accepting GOD s will. GOD gives everything we have or takes away. We accept that GOD does everything. This is total submission from a believer.
                                Everything the prophet does is from GOD. So in 3350 and 596 GOD granted and restored

                                GOD granted the MMA to the prophet in 3350
                                GOD restored through the spoils of war to the prophet 596.-Also the believers when they emigrated they lost their wealth- A believer will accept both.
                                Of course we do things,take decisions and receive things,like the prophet did, but in reality it is GOD who owns everything. He gives or takes away according to His knowledge(We call it our efforts/works/things).
                                So in reality GOD is in control.

                                GOD bless you.
                                Peace.

                                Peace Good logic… didnt God granted the prophet wives to him? Why God wanted to choose payed their dowries to them for azwaj…. And God granted to you(or gived too you as a booty/captive of war) for MMA?

                                Why God choosed this words type of words to mislead 99% of translators and 99% of people? Why God didnt used افاء الله علیک for both azwaj and mma? Or vice versa

                                Peace jkhan…. Even soft translations like FM translation and Dr shabbir ahmed choosed spouse or wives….

                                How can 99.9% percent of arabs do a mistake in translation of 7030? Even quranists like dr shabbir or brother layth

                                U said These orphans are not MMA.. There could be even in MMA orphans genuinely but here orphans are not MMA.. try to grasp it with flow of verses.
                                These Orphan girls once matured as woman you need to submit their property to them, and you have the responsibility of marrying them off. But if you fear for any of the untold reasons, allowed for the one who was the guardian of those orphans.. But one is perfect since he is already in fear.. So that's a free marriage.. A marriage with a free woman.. Not with MMA..

                                Apart from marrying a single free woman, marry those who are MMA if you want..

                                How this interpretation comes from? i think i get it wrong… where this verse is talking about marrying off the orphans?

                                U said Your headings are so misleading but when we emphasis on that you say with creepy answer "I know”

                                This “i know” was a answer to “ Just your are responsible for your neck.. ”

                                U said You have decided DESCRPANCY... and you have decided HONESTLY this topic is leading you to disbelieve.. So you heading to a path.. And you claim you believe... But your words describe contrary to that...

                                Ok…. If its your mindset…. Its ok no more talk, im done giveup

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                                • G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  good_logic
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  Peace Mahdi.

                                  Why has GOD granted me my wife? And why has GOD granted my wife me, her husband? GOD granted us each other.

                                  GOD grants everyone their wife/ves /husband/s if they marry or remarry. GOD grants us our children ,our wealth and everything we have.
                                  GOD grants us our life and death. Everything belongs to GOD.
                                  GOD granted Moses his mother and the Pharaoh s family to bring him up. GOD granted Moses the messenger-ship.
                                  GOD does everything as far as believers are concerned.

                                  GOD bless you .
                                  Peace.

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                                  • WakasW Offline
                                    WakasW Offline
                                    Wakas
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    Go capture enemy women and have sex with them….. i am trying tooooo hard to prove that quran dont say such things…. But i am failed

                                    What verse(s) are you referring to for this?

                                    All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Mahdi20
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      Peace good logic….
                                      i know God granted everything for us…. My question was something else

                                      i write it again Peace Good logic… didnt God granted the prophet wives to him? Why God wanted to choose payed their dowries to them for azwaj…. And God granted to you(or gived too you as a booty/captive of war) for MMA?

                                      Why God choosed this words type of words to mislead 99% of translators and 99% of people? Why God didnt used افاء الله علیک for both azwaj and mma? Or vice versa(i mean Why God didnt used different words for azwaj and mma after mentioning them)

                                      Peace wakas

                                      From the same verses that you mentioned in study quran

                                      Sex
                                      conception and pregnancy (see Pregnancy)
                                      consort with wives in a goodly manner 419
                                      don't force female slaves into prostitution 2433
                                      during Ramadhan 2187
                                      is what your spouse is for, so do it! 2187, 2222-223
                                      with slaves is legal 236, 3350, 3352, 7030 (alternate interpretation)

                                      (i noticed i wrongly writed sex with captured enemy women… captives must be released…. But anyway the problem isnt solved….. i change Go capture enemy women and have sex with them….. i am trying tooooo hard to prove that quran dont say such things…. But i am failed —-> Go buy female slavesand have sex with them(or have sex with uour already owned slaves)i am trying tooooo hard to prove that quran dont say such things…. But i am failed)

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                                      • H Offline
                                        H Offline
                                        hawk99
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        Free-Minds has turned into a bizarre amusement factory.
                                        Fornication is illegal in Islam as Green Anarchism has pointed out.
                                        (you can't make this stuff up!)
                                        Another person actually cares about how old was Noah. wow
                                        Then there's another member on a bash Muhammad tirade. rotfl

                                        How about what the Quran offers

                                        In the name of Allah the Yielder the Merciful

                                        Major Commandments

                                        You shall not set up any other god beside GOD, lest you end up despised and disgraced.

                                        Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably.

                                        And lower for them the wings of humility, and kindness, and say, "My Lord, have mercy on them, for they have raised me from infancy."

                                        Your Lord is fully aware of your innermost thoughts. If you maintain righteousness, He is Forgiver of those who repent.

                                        You shall give the due alms to the relatives, the needy, the poor, and the traveling alien, but do not be excessive, extravagant.

                                        The extravagant are brethren of the devils, and the devil is unappreciative of his Lord.

                                        Even if you have to turn away from them, as you pursue the mercy of your Lord, you shall treat them in the nicest manner.

                                        Stinginess Condemned

                                        You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry.

                                        For your Lord increases the provision for anyone He chooses, and reduces it. He is fully Cognizant of His creatures, Seer.

                                        Abortion is Murder

                                        You shall not kill your children due to fear of poverty. We provide for them, as well as for you. Killing them is a gross offense.

                                        You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.

                                        You shall not kill any person-for GOD has made life sacred-except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped.

                                        You shall not touch the orphans' money except for their own good, until they reach maturity. You shall fulfill your covenants, for a covenant is a great responsibility.

                                        You shall give full measure when you trade, and weigh equitably. This is better and more righteous.

                                        Crucial Advice

                                        You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

                                        You shall not walk proudly on earth -you cannot bore through the earth, nor can you be as tall as the mountains.

                                        All bad behavior is condemned by your Lord.

                                        Quran Is Wisdom

                                        This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

                                        Has your Lord given you boys, while giving Himself the angels as daughters?! How could you utter such a blasphemy?

                                        We have cited in this Quran (all kinds of examples), that they may take heed. But it only augments their aversion.

                                        Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."

                                        Be He glorified, He is much too exalted, far above their utterances.

                                        Everything Glorifies God

                                        Glorifying Him are the seven universes, the earth, and everyone in them. There is nothing that does not glorify Him, but you do not understand their glorification. He is Clement, Forgiver.

                                        Disbelievers Cannot Understand Quran

                                        When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.

                                        Quran The ONLY Source

                                        We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone,* they run away in aversion.

                                        May Allah guide us all.

                                        peace

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mahdi20
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          there is no such thing, show me the verses? facts, there is nothing wrong with the Quran... it's just you, with your story rotfl

                                          Brother… where i said you cant marry slaves…. Yes 424 ans 425 say you can marry with your slaves….. its just an option… i mean where Quran said you cant have sex with them when 235-6 3350 and 3352 looks like than you can have sex with them? As they are seperated from azwaj/wives

                                          Even the brother wakas have said at study quranSex with slaves is legal 236, 3350, 3352, 7030 (alternate interpretation)

                                          Brother hawk u said You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

                                          i said i am trying to convince my self that sex with slave is forbidden, but i failed

                                          May God help me

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