65:4 tense child marriage/pedophilia

imrankhawaja

peace wakas..

in my post i was actually talking about divorce giving and a degree of husband over wife.. same like mother have three degrees over his son

annyway lets finish this thing

this particular verse and word (zarabu) we cant skip words from the text of quran on wishful thinking if its not "beat" it must be something which according to situation fits perfect and provide us logical interpretation ...

lets analyse all quran alone translations .. and then i will tell u difference in the end..

Edip-Layth (Quran A Reformist Translation)
434 The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
434 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whom you fear desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
434 MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the right?eous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has guar?ded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them ; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
434 The men are made responsible for the women, 8 * and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.*,

Shabbir Ahmed (Quran As It Explains Itself)
434 Men are the protectors and supporters of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. God has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. Men should ensure that women are able to stand at their feet in the society. So, righteous women are obedient to God?s ordinances and guard the moral values even in privacy, the values that God has commanded to be guarded. If you experience ill-treatment from them, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places, and refer them for arbitration. If they pay heed to you, do not seek a way against them. God is Most High, Most Great.

now as per first two interpretation. authors never touch the word (zarabu) and they did not translate it .. so let these two disqualify from comparing.

rest of the three touch that word and translate it, out of which two of them translate it as "beat"

the last one translate it as arbitration (a methaphorcial approach not grammatical in which he is expert) in one of his version at www.openburhan.com he write in this way And keep admonishing them with examples that they stop rebelling i wonder he tried his best of gymnastic with that word time by time but truth is truth.. whatever we comes up with..

as per my knowledge "muhammad asad" have a full grip of understanding this word(zarab) according to grammar and language rules so i consider his translation one of the best. (see the note of 273)

now if you just replace husband and wife and put father & son/mother & son/elder sister & brother/uncle & nephew , then no body have issue with this beating ..

God bless you all

imrankhawaja

I agree with you as does anybody who has studied the language. However I take this approach.

brother the best interpretation of things you can find in this forum..

example is some people interpret polygamy for women and men both(at the same time) brickwall .. so you are free to check everything whatever somebody claim..

this time use this type of "intellect"

like this post..

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609394.msg403434#msg403434

reel

peace all,

I think reel is referring to that prohibition command being addressed in the masculine, but we all take it as applying to both male and female. The masculine address can include both male and female of course.

I'm not sure why the topic moved onto divorce but burhan is right, there is no talaq/divorce done by women to men in Quran. You can read about the divorce procedure as per Quran here
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

If a woman wanted divorce she can ask her husband to divorce her, but if the husband does not divorce her, she can inform the authority herself and request a release from marriage. Whilst different words are used the procedure is actually the same for both men/women, as the husband would also have to notify the authority if he wished to divorce.

That's right.

Wakas

peace imran,

An appeal to Muhammad Asad is an appeal to authority logical fallacy
https//yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Asad may be right, he may be wrong. How we decide is the Quranic evidence. From Asad's note on this verse you will see he does not bring any supporting evidence from Quran, and he even contradicts the Arabic of Quran by implying "beat" is when the wife is obviously guilty of immoral conduct. Note, the Arabic of Quran explicitly states it is about "fearing" something happening.

And in your post you were wondering why there is a discrepancy in Shabbir Ahmed's translation of 434. It is because he changed his translation after being shown www.Quran434.com see here.

Perhaps you too will change your view after reading it.

imrankhawaja

peace imran,

An appeal to Muhammad Asad is an appeal to authority logical fallacy
https//yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Asad may be right, he may be wrong. How we decide is the Quranic evidence. From Asad's note on this verse you will see he does not bring any supporting evidence from Quran, and he even contradicts the Arabic of Quran by implying "beat" is when the wife is obviously guilty of immoral conduct. Note, the Arabic of Quran explicitly states it is about "fearing" something happening.

And in your post you were wondering why there is a discrepancy in Shabbir Ahmed's translation of 434. It is because he changed his translation after being shown www.Quran434.com see here.

Perhaps you too will change your view after reading it.

peace wakas,

actually since my childhood this beating or striking(in case of immoral) thingie i never get on with it.. and i have the similar thinking about this particular verse.. what you have , but guess what happen with me in the life which cost me my life.

in general i never beleive in beating .. instead i like love and patience and an event happen that shakes me from upside down and few months ago i re-analyse my wishful thinking this time i get on with this word..

i feel its a time to share my life story .. i came here in this country as a student i earn hard by day and night .. finally i get married at the time of marriage i was not aware my wife already have a kid and she was cheating with me . on other words there was a group of people who was doing sham marriages and i become one of the victim..
all my family was against that marriage but i never listen them. i make her the leader of my house system , after finishing all my money she told me about her son who was 8 (first shock) after that i find out other things that she is still involve with her husband and it was her husband who send her for the sake of money(second shock) .. soon after i find out this thing guess what..
i never "hit" her in my whole life even after finiding out her (immoralty) i was just living my life according to my understanding of quran.. after finding the truth i let her go.
two months after she came back home one day ask me some money because she have nothing to feed for her kid.. she told me you are a strange person you never show me love if you "beat" me when you find out my mistake perhaps i never would left youthen she add "i feel you dnt have care for me" (

after that i feel is this the way God telling me correct interpretation and then when i see the full intepretation of verse God is actually advising the leader of family to lead in money matters too if i had that understanding probably still i m not a person who beat somebody but atleast i saved my hardwork of life.. which i earn by day and night ..

and guess what she lied me once she took 5000? from me and said her mother had cancer..
and when my mother had cancer i was helpless but God helped me somehow ..

all these things happen in just one year (its just a very little of my horrible story what i share)

but before accepting anything i must go around and check things when a father beat his kid or a teacher beat student which is pretty normal in areas where we brought up we did not find it disturbing.. only when (immoral) wife beating thing comes up we suddenly try to find alternates of translation i think we should not make our opinion above LAW..

in some cases this beating thing work and saves relationships specially if you have kids together ..
in some cases father beats their daughters when they fear immoral acts
in some cases mother beat his son when he ask to play with snake or fire
in all that cases beating is for betterment perhaps he/she listen

i think asad transalate it as " beat " due to a reason even shabbir ahmed make interpretation of one word to 8 words giving same meanings that somehow do something if u want to save that relation.. and traditionally its normal

forget about quran tradition and this 4 34

lets see in the country where we are living its unlawful here to beat our gf/wives

but still as soon husband find out about (immorality) of wife they start beating her without thinking a second i witness myslef lot of these cases.. even in the cases of bf /gf relationship when gf cheats , bf get crzy and beats his gf, three times i saw one my workmate have marks on the face and after asking why it happen she told me that her bf find out that she was with somebody else. its a human nature regardless of laws or anything and God is well aware about it.

i feel the word here is due to a reason and let this word there..
right now my position about this word is neutral just for this specific verse.. for other people i never wish they encounter what i encounter..

the only problem is equality can wife also beat husband on immorality?
yes she can but God did not adv ise it becoz womens are not strong enough to fight with males so it will give them harm more than benefit..

second thing if a mother beat his son its not logical that son hit her back ..(its consider a wrong doing and sin)

in all this i feel the husband have a degree over wife so God also make somethings under his commands .. like divorce giving from which our discussion started becoz husband is thinking on long term regarding kids and everything.. the immoral women did not bother about even kids and stuff so futher side effects are more harmful..

now considering all this how can we think its illogical .. it is with full of logic

and moreover look what God is doing on immorality , (100 lashes) whats this?
and on immoral acts God is also punishing us , he will roast us in hell like a chicken why?

i understand this and i ask forgiveness from God if i misunderstood anything in my previous life due to my weak knowledge

everybody have a right to agree and disagree , its a personal right nobody can take away from you when i was beleiving on other way round it give me wrong result now i m beleiving it the literal way lets see what it brings handshake

and sorry for long post group

amin

Peace Imran,

Good or bad action only will be known after the results of those actions get revealed. Marriages need to be taken seriously, here we call it as a 1000 year crop.

Anyway i think beating will not give the results one expect, just it will be usefull to satisfy our ego, Then how much to beat will be next question, what if the other person get injured or dies.

Best is to find ways to part away.
Sorry to hear your story.
Salam.

imrankhawaja

Peace Imran,

Good or bad action only will be known after the results of those actions get revealed. Marriages need to be taken seriously, here we call it as a 1000 year crop.

Anyway i think beating will not give the results one expect, just it will be usefull to satisfy our ego, Then how much to beat will be next question, what if the other person get injured or dies.

Best is to find ways to part away.
Sorry to hear your story.
Salam.

peace brother
i m against the beating .. i never did it i was surprised when she ask why did not i beat her? o

well why this word is there in my humble view in some cases it works in some cases it not works.
its not only on husband wife when i comapre things i usually comapre it as whole.

now i ll ask from father or mother why did they beat their kids upon immorality?
how much they should beat?

atleast God set his limits he will beat us (100 lashes) by his law? ( even ten lashes can get you died) is God also unaware about it?

as i stated earlier my position revised back to neutral on this specific verse
if this word takes as literal (i have no issue)
if this word taken as something else( i have no issue too)

he alone knows his secrets and the interpretation of multiple meaning verses as per 3 7

i share my experience becoz i affected from my previous understandings?

so i advise all of my brothers to lead family as husband as per God rules thats all.

God bless

NOTE about ego yeh some people might do it due to ego but i m not one of them . i preffer my God over ego
but on the contrary i feel in this specific situation human emotions are unable to control same like when you put ur hand on fire the law will get u burn . same when a women cheat the law of emotions lead husband to beat her ..

our nature is faulty.. not that we are eggoist

RED dnt worry brother it was just a trailor of my story a person like me who was full of love find himself in the catagory who start hate somebody .. i never remember hating anybody in life .. look this effect make me a hater even its just one person ..but i beleive this was pre destined or pre recorded.. i was helpless

Rallyt

I don't think it's related to pedophilia. Maybe it's a genetic disorder

Virgeva

I think that this is due to a genetic deviation, many girls are born without a uterus. This is not a fatal disease, but girls who do not have a uterus are extremely difficult to find a couple. There is nothing more beautiful in the world than a person who accepts you for whom you really are. My ex also loved me for who I was. She put up with all my antics. I loved her very much. She changed me. I broke up with her because she hadn't the uterus, but I really wanted children. You have no idea how aggressive I was. We will soon get together, as I have read a lot of information about the relationship on https//breakupangels.com/fear-of-intimacy/.

Davissio

Maybe it's a genetic disorder

pattephip

It is very right that you seek God and do not lose faith. I believe that every religion teaches people something important. But what unites all the religions of the world is charity and love for all living things. I am a Christian and the first thing I did when I converted to the faith was to help children in orphanages. I've been to Syria and Uganda and seen the terrible things that children have to go through. Now I have applied to portland oregon adoption agencies to help me adopt a boy from Syria to whom I have become very attached. I am sure God will guide both me and you on the right path.