The Universe

Noon_waalqalami

Peace,

Great success for the launch but Quran perspective is not Modern science perspective.

More details i gave about this subject here (last post)
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611107.10
or here
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611576.msg435273#msg435273

peace,

not about Babylonian astronomers
not about number equivalent earths

6512 الله the god الذى the one خلق creation سبع seven سموت samawatin/skies (celestial realms/universes) ومن and of الارض the land (earth) مثلهن mithlahunna/similitude them (feminine pl.)

similitude or of a similar example
not always about seeing with eye

1799 اولم do they not ىروا yaraw/seeth (realize) they of ان that الله the god الذى the one خلق creation السموت the skies (celestial realms/universes) والارض and the land (earth) قدر capable (able) على on ان that ىخلق created مثلهم mithlahum/similitude them (masculine pl. refers to people)

not about seeing with naked eye all the stars (impossible)
it says not thou see (find) in creation (everything look at)

673 الذى the one خلق creation سبع seven سموت skies (celestial realms/universes) طبقا tibaqan/superimposed of (thing that matches in form) ما not ترى tara/thou see (find) فى in خلق creation الرحمن the almighty من any تفاوت fault فارجع so returns البصر l-basara/the vision (look again) هل shall ترى thou see (find) من any فطور flaw?

674 ثم furthermore ارجع returns البصر the vision (look again) كرتىن karratayni/twice (second time)
ىنقلب returned الىك to you البصر the vision خسىا meek of وهو and it حسىر fatigued (looking for flaws)

675 ولقد and surely زىنا adorn we of السما the sky (celestial realm/universe) الدنىا the world بمصبىح bimasabiha/with torches وجعلنها and made we them رجوما rujuman/conjectures of (superstitions, astrology pseudoscience) للشىطىن for the devils (evil people) واعتدنا and prepares we of لهم for them عذب punishment السعىر the blaze

Iyyaka

Peace,

peace,
not about number equivalent earths
6512 الله the god الذى the one خلق creation سبع seven سموت samawatin/skies (celestial realms/universes) ومن and of الارض the land (earth) مثلهن mithlahunna/similitude them (feminine pl.)

similitude or of a similar example

Incorrect statement (in bold above)- literally the text says that he created 7 earths in the same way that he created the 7 heavens.
I have underlined in red in your translation the "min" which has an important role to play in the understanding of the sentence.
So, (and of the earth the like thereof.) means, He created seven earths.

Those who are not influenced by modern science understand it as the text says (as Bedouins of the 7th century also understood it), and not as they would like it to be

Pickthall
Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof.
Sahih Intl
It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them.
Yusuf Ali
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number.

peace,

1799 اولم do they not ىروا yaraw/seeth (realize) they of ان that الله the god الذى the one خلق creation السموت the skies (celestial realms/universes) والارض and the land (earth) قدر capable (able) على on ان that ىخلق created مثلهم mithlahum/similitude them (masculine pl. refers to people)

not about seeing with naked eye all the stars (impossible)

The Qur'an does not ask you to look at the stars one by one (what a strange statement/reasoning!). Besides, the word "star" does not appear in the verse .
In it is said that THE ONE who created the 7 heavens and the earth is just as capable of raising the dead (in the sense of a new "creation&quot similar to their first one.
Muhammad Asad explains it clearly "Lit., "to create the like of them" -i.e., to resurrect them individually, each of them having the same identity (or "likeness&quot which he or she had before death."

Last point

Your interpretation "rujuman/conjectures of (superstitions, astrology pseudoscience)" is incorrect in CONTEXT.
I quote Muhammad Asad to be complete "As regards the term rajm (pl. rujum), which literally denotes the "throwing like a stone" - i.e., at random - it is often used metaphorically in the sense of "speaking conjecturally" or "making the object of guesswork" (Jawhari, Raghib - the latter connecting this metaphor explicitly with the above verse -, Lisan al-'Arab, Qamus, Taj al-'Arus, etc.).
In CONTEXT it is about skies, lighted wicks...Physical things.
It is also necessary to read suras 67 and 72 (Al-Jinn) together to have a better understanding => i quote here Mazhar "the Shai'teen " - https//www.haqeeqat.pk/Quran.Corpus-1.htm

Noon_waalqalami

peace!

So, (and of the earth the like thereof.) means, He created seven earths.

No, words not there number of earths unstated says similar them (countless!)

https//www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-5837156-4k-incredible-night-sky-stars-panorama-time-lapse

Those who are not influenced by modern science understand it as the text says (as Bedouins of the 7th century also understood it), and not as they would like it to be

Bedouins don't own Qur'an and didn’t understand back then or today stoning people, marrying underage girls, inheritance "over two" means two, "exactly two" means three plus, kalala, etc.

The Qur'an does not ask you to look at the stars one by one (what a strange statement/reasoning!). Besides, the word "star" does not appear in the verse .

1799 was to show that similitude has many meanings not number!
Besides, you brought up "see" thing and Babylonian astronomers.

Last point

Your interpretation "rujuman/conjectures of (superstitions, astrology pseudoscience)" is incorrect in CONTEXT.

رَجْم rajm and رُجُوم‎ rujum (pl.)

1822 سدسهم sixth theirs كلبهم dog theirs رجما rajman/conjecture of بالغىب in the unseen

675 ولقد and surely زىنا adorn we of السما the sky الدنىا the world بمصبىح with torches وجعلنها and made we them رجوما rujuman/conjectures of (superstitions, astrology pseudoscience) للشىطىن lilshayatini/for the devils (evil people) واعتدنا and prepares we of لهم for them عذب punishment السعىر the blaze

214 واذا and when of لقوا meet they of الذىن the ones امنوا believes they of قالوا said they of امنا believe we of واذا and when of خلوا withdrew they of الى to شىطىنهم shayatinihim/devils (evil people) theirs قالوا said they of انا indeed we معكم with you انما solely نحن we مستهزىون who mocking

Iyyaka

Peace,

Sorry but No real arguments in your last intervention.

YES modern science shows and I accepted
1 - That the sky has a multitude of planets LIKE the earth,
2 - That the earth revolves around the sun and not the contrary,
3- That the universe is full of planetary systems and not just one
etc.

YES, the Qur'an describes a universe that is related to the knowledge of the 7th century.
Textually true. And the Qur'an had to be clear and understandable for Bedouins of the 7th century.

How to reconcile these two facts?
I understand that this may bother some people (in literature this is called "concordism&quot, including you apparently.
For me it is not a contradiction.
The Qur'an is not a book of science but of guidance; and it essentially talks about faith. It places humans at the center of the discourse so that they can meditate on the divine signs.
In short, I am not going to change the original meaning of a text to suit my modern view of things. BUT, on the other hand, AFTER understanding the original meaning of the text in the context in which it appeared, I MUST legitimately and consciously make a modern reading of it to draw lessons for my everyday life.

NB

the Shai'teen Evil Ones amongst species Jinn AND/OR Humans (cf. sura 113).
It depends on CONTEXT
1 - In the verse 675, it talks about Evil Ones amongst species Jinn
2- Yes in the verse 214, it talks about Evil Ones amongst species Humans.

truth

Peace,

I had read and watched a video recently about the phrase 'al samawati wa al ardh' having some new insights emerging about it, involving a sevenness element. As an interesting connection to this sevenness, there are apparently 133 = 19 x 7 occurences of the phrase in The Quran (not yet confirmed by us).

It's an important 'bridge' to the Torah because the phrase occurs in the first verse of the Bible,

Genesis 11.

'beresheet bara elohim at ha-shamayim wa-at ha-aretz'

In the beginning The God created the heavens and the earth...

which is comparable in its position to The Bismillah in The Quran.

Emre_1974tr

HEAVEN IS NOT PARADISE IT IS UNIVERSE
Quran 5122 In the heaven is your provision, and what you are promised. (Paradise and hell are both ready and outside the world, in the sky)

The prophets living in Paradise will be summoned to the court as witnesses on the Day of Judgment

Quran 7711 And when the messengers are gathered.

heaven is not paradise. Heaven =universe
Heavens = universes

The Qur'an offers a multi-universe model.

But it is not infinite.

Seven universes, for example.

Other universes have planets too.

65.12 Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.

Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe
Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch.

Quran 21104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

Quran 3967 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.

Quran A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (3620-29)

Quran 1956 And recall in the Book, Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.
1957 And We raised him to a high place.

Quran 355 For God said "O Jesus, I will terminate your life, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who have rejected until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, all of you,so I will judge between you in what it was that you disputed."

Prophets and very good peoples in Paradise now. They were created in Paradise (floor of Lord/other universe) without waiting for the Hour.

But, Other people will wait for the Resurrection for re-creation.

The Qur'an says that a group of exception people are already living in Paradise.

And it even tells us that some of them are talking about the world's inhabitants. They say "they(World peoples) will come to us later". However, it is difficult to see them for you because the English translations of the Qur'an do not provide complete sentences.

Likewise, the verses of the Lord's Floor are also mentioned, but you cannot see it again in English translations. Because, unfortunately, those under the influence of traditional interpretation make translations in their own understanding.

Yes, according to the Qur'an there are already people living in Paradise.

And that's where Christians believe that Jesus is in paradise.

In the false Gospels, the event was described incorrectly, so you could not see the painting until today.

Jesus and all other messengers/ prophets live in paradise now.

Quran 3169 Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions.

3170 Happy with what God has granted them from His grace, and they rejoice in those who have yet to follow after them. There is no fear upon them nor do they grieve.

517 Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say, "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on earth!" To God is the sovereignty of heavens and earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things. (Jesus and his mother living in other universe, Like other prophets...)

Quran 848 He will then receive an easy reckoning.
849 He will return to his family in joy! (The person who is called from Paradise to the day of judgment will return to Paradise again with joy)

5313 Indeed, he saw him in another descent.
5314 At the ultimate point.
5315 Next to the eternal Paradise.
(Even when the prophet Muhammad lived in the world, he was taken to visit the universe of the Hereafter/ Floor of Lord)

567 You will be in three groupings.
568 So those on the right; who will be from those on the right?
569 Those on the left; who will be from those on the left?
5610 And those foremost, who will be from those foremost?
(8th verse about peple who after the apocalyptic blessing will enter the paradise, 9th verse about who will enter hell, and the 10th verse talking about the already pioneering group living in Paradise. Thus, the three classes mentioned in verse 7 are completed)

1993 When all there is in the heavens and the earth will but come to the Gracious as servants.

1956 Recall in the book Enoch; he was truthful, a prophet.
1957 We raised him to a high place.
(Enoch is living in Paradise now)

Emre_1974tr