Salaat Solved.
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Peace bro idolfree1,
it is a discussion with the God through the PROCESS(salaat). What is being dealt with is the AGE OLD/CROSS CULTURAL concept of meditation.
Fair enough. Why don?t we call it the discussion process then? Problem solved.
Anyway, the concept of "hajja" deals with the "discussions" which are referred to as "debates" (hajja) as oppossed to arguing(jidala).
Here, I believe we are actually talking about three distinctly different words Argument (jidala); debate (hajja); and salat (discussion process).
Argument = Quarel/Dispute = jidala
Debate = To discuss opposing points = hajja
Discussion = Consideration of a subject by a group = salaat
Lastly, "Al Salaat Al Wusta" indicates to us that the process(salaat) is what balances us, we must not be too far into the conscious of daytime or the subconscious of nighttime, but the MIDDLE state, or the MEDI- State.
The balance is describing the arrival of a general consensus, where opinions are balanced amongst the group of discussers.
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Peace bro Ayman,
The concept of "salat" is one of a learning connection. Discussions and oration are simply learning methods that interact and complement each other.
IMO, we cannot categorise salat as a learning connection, rather it is discussion which involves oration of the Quran, so we may call it the ?discussion process? ? this I say because of?
(3356) Truly The God and His controllers discuss on the prophet. You, those who believed, discussion on him and submit peacefully.
So God isn?t learning about the prophet. Although discussion leads to learning, it is not exclusive, the controllers learn from God about the prophet, but God doesn?t learn from the controllers. So I wouldn?t say it has to be a learning connection. Although it could still be said that in this case it is a one way learning process.
This is why in many instances in the great reading we see that "salat" is happening in a group discussion with moderate voice (17106-111), while at other times it is done alone (for example at dawn in 177. This is natural and is true for any learning process.
1778 doesn?t say anywhere that the salat is done alone, although it may involve reading the Quran on your own, and the wording of the verse makes it clear that reading the Quran is not necessarily part of the salat process. My understanding is that God could have ordered us to read the Quran in more strict terms, or even at dusk instead of dawn, but the reason we are told to read it at dawn is because then we have parts of the Quran fresh in out minds to discuss during the discussions of the day. And this reading of the Quran is not made compulsory or part of salat, because all of the people involved in the discussions don?t need to have stimulus material, only a few or just the chairperson may do. God asserts that he witnesses it, because then that person has shown commitment to the discussion by reading and preparing to bean active player in the discussion. This also works to the extent that people don?t start getting big headed and doing their discussions without any real knowledge of the Quran, which would lead to perversion of understandings. I think the understanding of ?discussion? really does give meaning to the suggestion read the Quran at dawn.
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Salaams natu,
You are getting a firm view of this topic,surpising me.(3356) Truly The God and His controllers discuss on the prophet. You, those who believed, discussion on him and submit peacefully.
I think in this ayah the word is somewhat different ? Saloona, and seems more like advice
Various salaat ? discussion of a type. But Saloo is somewhat different,to me.
33.56 verily Allah and His Malaikaat bestow advice upon the prophet O you who believe give/bestow your advice/view upon/to him and greet (him) and submit/accept openly.
Keep up the good work.
Salaams
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You are getting a firm view of this topic,surpising me.
Peace mz357.
I absolutely love this it! It works even in the most awkward contexts!
And one other thing I like about this understading is that salat is clearly distinguished from hajj...
Commands to salat are always followed by suggestion to keep them pure (no going off on a tangent or discussing something irrelevant), and not to avoid arguments, becuase in a discussion, like minded people are attempting to understand further, so arguments aren't going to happen anyway.
Commands to hajj are associated with suggestions to avoid arguments, becuase arguments are likely to happen in debates, becuase it involves conflicting views, and attempts to convince either side of a particlar view, so in a debate it is unlikely that people would go off on a tangent, becuase both sides would be trying to convince the other side instead of slacking off. So God naturally found it unneccessary to tell us to keep the debates pure, he just told us to avoid arguments. Perfect advice from the author!
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Although I am understanding what is going on by applying logic only, becuase I do not really know much arabic, I pray that one day I will be able to discuss (salat wink ) these things by talking about the arabic involved, like you guys do! Some day I will God willing! D arrow
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Hi Natu,
Hajj was something for the great masses of peoples done like a once off thingy ? but salaat is and was a continues process but with far fewer people being involved on a daily basis ,which involved/s everyday affairs aswell unlike Hajj which embodied the core issues of the way of the quran? I think.
Salaams.
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Yorite mz!
Good point! With either understanding it works! More flexibility! I think we now have the "salat solution"!!!
We'll see what criticism is left, and once thats through we'll get an article going, going through everty single itsy bitsy detail, get it posted in the articles section, and use that article as a base for discussion in "THE THREAD" - regular updates. So that people new to free minds can see clearly what salat is, coz the hard work has been done for them! And thats it, we may have a solid understanding of salat that no sectarian can even come in sniffing range!
Now I can bet people are gonna come on here and say that we should let people find their way through themselves, and see what is best for themselves, so all I would say is that if the correct definition has been found, why not promote it, instead of letting other promote prostration towards the kaba?
BTW, am I going a bit OTT with the exclamation marks?
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Salaam NATU,
Good stuff,an article for a quick/easy understanding for everybody-i think.
Thanks.
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Peace be upon you Natu,
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it is a discussion with the God through the PROCESS(salaat). What is being dealt with is the AGE OLD/CROSS CULTURAL concept of meditation.Fair enough. Why don?t we call it the discussion process then? Problem solved.
I do not think it is the best statement. First, my position is that salaat = process, period. Anything else added to the word "process" is just the implication. With that said, discussion process is not wrong, but it leaves it open to be regularly talking to other humans. This is not what I see from the God's message.
There must be more thought put into the TIMING , which is when the day and night MERGE. It is deeply symbolic, and should be studied more. It is rather an INNER discussion with the God, not outwardly talking to humans.
5812 might shed some light.
So again, I have it as salaat=process, but the implication is that it is the process of meditation, which is the true learning process that gives us enlightenment.
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Anyway, the concept of "hajja" deals with the "discussions" which are referred to as "debates" (hajja) as oppossed to arguing(jidala).Here, I believe we are actually talking about three distinctly different words Argument (jidala); debate (hajja); and salat (discussion process).
Argument = Quarel/Dispute = jidala
Debate = To discuss opposing points = hajja
Discussion = Consideration of a subject by a group = salaat
Yes, that is what I was trying to point out, we are talking about three different words, the word "hajja" already deals with outward verbal reasoning, salaat does not come to overlay the same position, it is describing something different.
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Lastly, "Al Salaat Al Wusta" indicates to us that the process(salaat) is what balances us, we must not be too far into the conscious of daytime or the subconscious of nighttime, but the MIDDLE state, or the MEDI- State.The balance is describing the arrival of a general consensus, where opinions are balanced amongst the group of discussers.
What you are describing is already stated under mutual consultation, no need to use salaat to say the same thing. This reading will reject anything that does not fit.
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Salaams idol,Natu,
Idol said
?5812 might shed some light.?5812-13.
O you who believe when you consult in private the Messenger spend something before your private consultaion in cherity that will be better for you and purer But if not you find then verily Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.
Are you afraid to spend before your private consultation in cherity if then not you do (it) and has forgiven Allah (to) you then hold/undretake the discussion and keep it pure (the advice thereof) and obey Allah and His Messenger and Allah is All-Aware of what you do.I don't see this odd in any way, but we are only playing with words?
Gods Blessings.
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Salaams Ali ,
your not far offIslam is the ?deen?, or the system, of God to submit , ?salaat? is the discussion/s of how to deal with everything in the World in accordance with this system and ?zakaat? is to stick to the solutions agreed to in the discussion by the members rather then changing them for your own benefits.
Salaa is the advice/view solution by one or more people for betterment (or you can say it is a solution to something),and thus salaat is the discussion to select the best solutions by the people to get the best one for the benefit of those concerned/all. Which is then agreed to by the peoples.
In the Advancing/democratic countries it is carried out most of the time (i think) even in companies and organisations - but unfortunately we muslims carry out a ritual .
I think the early muslim rulers changed the whole concept (my view only) to have their say as the only solution to things to keep power in their own hands rather then the people and thus put the muslims unto the road of the ritual or something.
I think.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace bro mz357
Idolfree said
What you are describing is already stated under mutual consultation, no need to use salaat to say the same thing. This reading will reject anything that does not fit.
Discusion works in all of the salat verses better than any other, however I believe this point quoted above is ver important. My understanding is that the arabic word for "mutual consultation" may have a more appropriate meaning in the lexicons. Other than this, Salat = Discussion. End of story.
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peace all,
Firstly, "atw al zkw" cannot be translated as "keep them pure". To say such a thing is completely baseless.
Secondly, salat=singular, not plural. To say such a thing is completely baseless.
Thirdly, salat is not just for believers. I thoroughly demonstrated this in my latest article. It is only for believers if we are talking about the regular/timed salat.
And lastly, for those who think salat=discussion if they think its a blanket meaning, i.e. in all occurrences, then I suggest reviewing all occurrences again.
Wakas
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htm -
Salaams waqas,
you said
"Firstly, "atw al zkw" cannot be translated as "keep them pure". To say such a thing is completely baseless.Secondly, salat=singular, not plural. To say such a thing is completely baseless.
Thirdly, salat is not just for believers. I thoroughly demonstrated this in my latest article. It is only for believers if we are talking about the regular/timed salat.
And lastly, for those who think salat=discussion if they think its a blanket meaning, i.e. in all occurrences, then I suggest reviewing all occurrences again."
Whether we use Aidid "keep it pure" or your "and bring forth the betterment"
Doesn't matter an ayota.
Second singularity/pluratiy does sometimes change when shifting from one lingo to another.With your level of edu you should know it-i think.
There is only one definition of Salaat and not one for believers and one for non-believers.
And no you can never have a blanket meaning in all cases when shifting between two lingoes-i don't think, but Discussion is working out more then any other i think.but give me an accurance where it hasn't worked please ,it will set the record streight.
Lastly you havn't as yet i think come up with anything concrete on Salaat ,have you?
Salaams.
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Peace be upon you all,
Mz
salaat? is the discussion/s of how to deal with everything in the World in accordance with this system and ?zakaat? is to stick to the solutions agreed to in the discussion by the members rather then changing them for your own benefits
But do you see how this explanation forces you to leave HAJJ (the debate) out of the picture? The coming together to0 debate(discuss) the God's plan/words in order to make life better? It does not work, respectfully. Trust me, I know it feels really good right now because you found something that seems like it fits momentarily, but as time progresses, you will see that it does not fit.
Please, those who have not done so, do some research on meditation.
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Peace be upon you,
Please take time to think about WHY DAWN and DUSK are mentioned as the times.
These are not the best times for discussion. Isnt it better to discuss during daily life, at work and other places we go to to meet people? And at night we sleep and study. So IN BETWEEN those times, just after waking and just before bed, the times where we are not out in the world, or sleeping, we meditate, that is contemplate on the WHOLE(God) in order to get the answers from our call(dua). This is the process by which we LEARN in life.
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Salaams waqas,
All right.
Gods Blessings.
