HELP NEEDED! Crisis of Faith: The Truthfullness of The Qur'an...

shukri

The "it" in 7430 refers to a feminine object. "quran" is a masculine.

Just to show an argument of the word "it".

Some say that the word "it" in verse 7430 is referring to the word "Hell" (a feminine object) in verse 7431
7430 Over it (Hell) is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell (it), and we assigned their number to disturb the disbelievers, to convince the Christians and Jews...

Anyway I do not know arabic and cannot say who is right, who is wrong.
BUT I think this argument is the best (in my opinion) to explain the word "it" in verse 7430.

Thank you

jkhan

Just to show an argument of the word "it".

Some say that the word "it" in verse 7430 is referring to the word "Hell" (a feminine object) in verse 7431
7430 Over it (Hell) is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell (it), and we assigned their number to disturb the disbelievers, to convince the Christians and Jews...

Anyway I do not know arabic and cannot say who is right, who is wrong.
BUT I think this argument is the best (in my opinion) to explain the word "it" in verse 7430.

Thank you

Peace..
Of course the word IT refers to Hell.. And what is the issue here?
Nothing... If anyone has any issue let them detail rather than just rhetorically question..
19 is incontrovertiblly the guardian of Quran like the guardians of Hell are 19 ..Why Hell needs Guardians? Are those who are living in it are powerful to escape from it? But they can distort Hell. They can live as they want.. But guardians won't let it happen.. They ensure they deserve their punishment...
There is no grammar issue here.. They only think so.. But useless their effort is...
Iddah of 19 is a different matter... And Hell and 19 angels is different... That's future... Is it happening? No.. But does the idda of 19 happens? Yes... It does... It happens and and the predicted outcome / listed matters are also happening...

Further, I would like to ask this question again...
Would you anyone think that these verses of chapter 7430-35 would have increased the faith of believers duirng the time of Mohamed? If Yes why? How could it have increased.. What is the reason behind it..?
Does these verses increase the faith of believers now? Yes.. I don't if all people who believers, but whoever does believe in this has increased their faith... Including me..

good_logic

Qoran is masculine Revelation-Ayatan- is feminine.
GOD uses both Qoran and revelation for Qoran
16101
Revelation-feminine-
When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.
وَإِذا بَدَّلنا ءايَةً مَكانَ ءايَةٍ وَاللَّهُ أَعلَمُ بِما يُنَزِّلُ قالوا إِنَّما أَنتَ مُفتَرٍ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ
Or
1602
Qoran-masculine
Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters."
قُل نَزَّلَهُ روحُ القُدُسِ مِن رَبِّكَ بِالحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَهُدًى وَبُشرىٰ لِلمُسلِمينَ

Over it-the revelation/Ayatian, feminine- is 19, why not?.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

Over it-the revelation/Ayatian, feminine- is 19, why not?.

peace gl nope learn basic gender, numbers, and "context" is your friend!

482 افلا do so not ىتدبرون they reflecting القرن the Qur’an (masculine)
ولو and in case كان was من from عند with غىر other than الله the God
لوجدوا surely found they of فىه in it (m) اختلفا divergences كثىرا much of

17101 تسع tisa/nine (m) اىت signs (f)
2748 تسعه tisatu/group of nine (f) رهط chieftains (m)

247 علىه alayhi/upon him (m)
249 علىها alayha/upon her (f)

666 علىها alayha/over it (f) ملىكه controllers/angels (masculine)
7430 علىها alayha/over it (f) تسعه group of nine (f) عشر ten (m) {group of nineteen (masculine)}

عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ جُنُودًا over her/it (f) group of nineteen soldiers (masculine)

عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَ عَشْرةَ استاذةً over her/it (f) group of nineteen teachers (feminine)

good_logic

And context is ignored in 7431?.
We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
وَما جَعَلنا أَصحٰبَ النّارِ إِلّا مَلٰئِكَةً وَما جَعَلنا عِدَّتَهُم إِلّا فِتنَةً لِلَّذينَ كَفَروا لِيَستَيقِنَ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ وَيَزدادَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا إيمٰنًا وَلا يَرتابَ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ وَالمُؤمِنونَ وَلِيَقولَ الَّذينَ فى قُلوبِهِم مَرَضٌ وَالكٰفِرونَ ماذا أَرادَ اللَّهُ بِهٰذا مَثَلًا كَذٰلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَن يَشاءُ وَيَهدى مَن يَشاءُ وَما يَعلَمُ جُنودَ رَبِّكَ إِلّا هُوَ وَما هِىَ إِلّا ذِكرىٰ لِلبَشَرِ

So according to you, the group of 19 Angels /guardians of hell are strengthening your faith and convincing the Jews and Christians that tQoran is divine?

And according to me, code/Mathematical composition/interlock of the Qoran is strengthening my faith and convincing some Jews and Christians that Qoran is divine.
And I have no idea how these Angels are doing these to anyone,, but I can witness and see the number composition clearly doing these to various folks.
So, to you your context and to me my context.
GOD bless you brother Noon.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace All.
There is more to come from the numerical structure of Qoran There is more to discover.
Here are some verses from Qoran that cannot be ignored

Those who possess no knowledge say, "If only God could speak to us, or some miracle could come to us!" Others before them have uttered similar utterances; their minds are similar. We do manifest the miracles for those who have attained certainty.

And remind, for the reminder benefits the believers.

Therefore, you shall remind; perhaps the reminder will benefit.
The reverent will take heed.
The wicked will avoid it.

What is the reminder?

The Qoran's Common Denominator(19 guardians of hell do not make sense?!!!)

Over it is nineteen.
We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.
And the night as it passes.
And the morning as it shines.

One of the Great Miracles
This is one of the great miracles.
A warning to the human race.
For those among you who wish to advance, or regress

Absolutely, we have revealed the reminder, and, absolutely, we will preserve it.*

The perfect preservation is a process that can only be achieved by putting the miracle into application. Some are in the state of denial, believing/ thinking that the preservation is complete per 159.
The Ultimate Miracle
The Qoran's Mathematical Code.
When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that God is Omnipotent?
( Surely you do not think this "ayatin" in here means verse/s?!!!)
*2106 The Quran's mathematical miracle is perpetual & greater than previous miracles (3445, 7435). Like the Qoran itself, it confirms, consummates, and supersedes all previous miracles.

Indeed, it is a glorious Quran.
In a preserved master tablet.

The System
We did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. God then nullifies what the devil has done. God perfects His revelations. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.

*2252 Throughout this worldly test, Satan is allowed to present his point of view . This allows the people to make a choice between God's evidence and Satan's evidence. Satan's evidence is invariably based on lies. This system explains the fact that the devil's agents continuously come up with the most absurd lies, insults and accusations against every messenger (see 633-34, 830, 1776-77, 2770).

Those before them disbelieved, and even though they did not see one-tenth* of (the miracle) we have given to this generation, when they disbelieved My messengers, how severe was My retribution!

*3445 The great miracles given to Moses and Jesus were limited in time and place; they were witnessed by a few people who happened to exist in that place at that time. But the mathematical miracle of the Qoran is perpetual (see 7430-35)

It's God's supreme plan to bless our generation and the generations to come, until the end of the world, with the divine, verifiable and a mathematical built-in structure within the Qoran's Arabic text. God s letters and words prove beyond doubt its divine authorship and authenticity.

Or do you have a better explanation for these verses and other verses like{4610, 541-2, 4413...etc}?

But of course the choice is there believe or do not believe!

Among our creations, there are those who guide with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.

Do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor shall you conceal the truth, knowingly.

Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."

They want to put out God's light with their mouths, but God insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.

But of course believing the message and following the straight path is the ultimate aim to unite all the believers.
GOD bles you all.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

So according to you, the group of 19 Angels /guardians of hell are strengthening your faith and convincing the Jews and Christians that tQoran is divine?

peace gl, again basic reading not today's infatuation with multiple hunting

I arrived at certainty due to single "meem" in word ما ma/what below

412 ولكم and for you نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours ...
فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركن left they (f/p)

لهن and for them الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركتم left you
... فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما mimma/from what تركتم left you

likewise "in context" was obviously applicable back then
7430 clearly refers to group of nineteen (m) angels 666

7431
ولىقول and to sayeth الذىن the ones فى in قلوبهم hearts theirs مرض illness والكفرون and the rejecting
"ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the God بهذا in this مثلا similitude of?"
كذلك like such ىضل misguided الله the God من whom ىشا willed of وىهدى and guided من whom ىشا willed of

likewise with mosquito

226
واما and as for الذىن the ones كفروا reject they of فىقولون so sayeth being
“ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the God بهذا in this مثلا similitude of?”
ىضل misguided به with it كثىرا many of وىهدى and guided به with it كثىرا many of

if you want to remove verses, not learn to read, flip digits hunt multiples up to you

peace!

shukri

Bro Noon,

This thread is not meant to discuss the details of Code 19.
The discussion on it has been done on various threads of this forum.
We are here to give the answer or give the possible solution to our friend Bro "LiberalGamer" on his crisis of faith regarding the Quran.
Please give your focus to this issue and pay attention to his arguments.
I know you are a very knowledgeable person and have the expertise to answer all the points raised by Bro "LiberalGame". Don't you!

good_logic

Brother Noon.
whenever you see numbers, you are the one flipping numbers and finding useless multiples . You are drawn to it like a magnet.
May be it is your task in this life Keep going too, I am not objecting.
Remove or ignore verses? what difference?.Why do you ignore some verses? like 4610 ,541-2...etc
468
When they say, "He fabricated this," say, "If I fabricated this, then you cannot protect me from God. He is fully aware of everything you scheme. He suffices as a witness between me and you. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful."
أَم يَقولونَ افتَرىٰهُ قُل إِنِ افتَرَيتُهُ فَلا تَملِكونَ لى مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيـًٔا هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِما تُفيضونَ فيهِ كَفىٰ بِهِ شَهيدًا بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَهُوَ الغَفورُ الرَّحيمُ
469
Say, "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."
قُل ما كُنتُ بِدعًا مِنَ الرُّسُلِ وَما أَدرى ما يُفعَلُ بى وَلا بِكُم إِن أَتَّبِعُ إِلّا ما يوحىٰ إِلَىَّ وَما أَنا۠ إِلّا نَذيرٌ مُبينٌ
4610
Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."
قُل أَرَءَيتُم إِن كانَ مِن عِندِ اللَّهِ وَكَفَرتُم بِهِ وَشَهِدَ شاهِدٌ مِن بَنى إِسرٰءيلَ عَلىٰ مِثلِهِ فَـٔامَنَ وَاستَكبَرتُم إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَهدِى القَومَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Rabbi Judah the Pious.

This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the scripture(Torah)
http//whoisourcreator.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html
4611
Those who disbelieved said about those who believed, "If it were anything good, they would not have accepted it before us." Because they were not guided to it, they said, "This is an old fabrication!"
وَقالَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا لِلَّذينَ ءامَنوا لَو كانَ خَيرًا ما سَبَقونا إِلَيهِ وَإِذ لَم يَهتَدوا بِهِ فَسَيَقولونَ هٰذا إِفكٌ قَديمٌ

Shukri you are right me and Noon should stick to the topic.
Sorry about the off-topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

Bro Noon,

This thread is not meant to discuss the details of Code 19.
The discussion on it has been done on various threads of this forum.
We are here to give the answer or give the possible solution to our friend Bro "LiberalGamer" on his crisis of faith regarding the Quran.
Please give your focus to this issue and pay attention to his arguments.
I know you are a very knowledgeable person and have the expertise to answer all the points raised by Bro "LiberalGame". Don't you!

peace, I've already responded in my first post he has too many topics

likewise, teaching you all how to read and you guys who brought it up

عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ بليداً over her/it (f) group of nineteen morons (masculine)

116 1 930 2 570 3 47 4 = 19 x 6115422405446
121 1 934 2 573 3 52 4 = 19 x 6378601354396

1 12345 2 6789 3 101112 4 1314151617 = 19 x 19 x 19 x 1637924885451248176310563

1 5 12345 2 9 6789 3 12 101112 4 17 1314151617 = 19 x 795971208836480053217061648113243

1 70301051 2 4006070400 3 70300200 4 2301041 = 19 x 89632132231610896844054211581173739

shukri

peace, I've already responded in my first post he has too many topics

Bro Noon,
You just made a comment on a minor thing, not enough!

Minor Things
-fasting in the north pole,
there are places on the earth where the sun never sets, God designed the night and the day, how is this never brought up, especially when you’re supposed to fast from sunrise to sunset, but since there are places where the sun never sets it’s literally impossible, like literally, and yet to my knowledge, my understanding of The Qur’an never brings it up…

I want to hear your answer on the major issue raised by "LiberalGame"

"Let’s assume you are alive when The Prophet pbuh is alive too and he is preaching The Qur’an.Now, within this context, you have two options
A) Believe that The Prophet pbuh is sent from God
B) Believe that The Prophet pbuh is speaking from his own accord

Now, let’s go back to the present day context, you can still
A) Believe that The Qur’an is from God
B) Believe that The Qur’an is from a Human in the 7th century

Now the problem that I have is that, if you assume A, it does make sense, but there are a lot of things which either 1) seem really unfortunate, or 2) don’t make sense, for example
-Eternal Punishment? God is the Doer of what He Wills and, I it is possible, but it just, it sounds so unfortunate, like no second chances, it’s so sad.
-Killing / Waging War, honestly even if it was self defense it just seems too glorified to be coming from God, the disbelievers seem absolutely dehumanized, but even beyond that killing seems to be presented as an actual good thing rather then a deplorable but unfortunately necessary thing, “Striving in The Way Of God” and all that...
-Even The Day seems a bit arbitrary at times, for example there are different accounts given on what will occur on that day, but the most unfortunate thing from my view is the fact that there doesn’t even seem to be anything certain, since the implication is everyone will account for their deeds they did in this life, but then it is mentioned multiple times that the disbelievers deeds will be nullified, so it’s as if they didn’t do anything good, ergo I don’t understand."

In short, please give your reasoning why you believe that the Quran is from God NOT from Muhammad.
In Reply #21, I mentioned Code-19 as a proof to be considered by "LiberalGame".
Now please give your proof to "LiberalGame" why you have a certainty that al Quran came from God.
I want to see your reasoning if possible.
It must be an incontrovertible proof I suppose!

Noon_waalqalami

Bro Noon,
You just made a comment on a minor thing, not enough!

I want to hear your answer on the major issue raised by "LiberalGame"

In short, please give your reasoning why you believe that the Quran is from God NOT from Muhammad.
In Reply #21, I mentioned Code-19 as a proof to be considered by "LiberalGame".
Now please give your proof to "LiberalGame" why you have a certainty that al Quran came from God.
I want to see your reasoning if possible.
It must be an incontrovertible proof I suppose!

peace, already gave a reason if you bothered to read and study the subject.

I arrived at certainty due to single "meem" in word ما ma/what below

412 ولكم and for you نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours ...

instead of posting multiples consult your messenger's horrid translation to answer the questions or the meaning of kalala and how to allocate inheritance to husband, parents, two sisters?

nineteen infatuation is for those who cannot read and lack basic math skills.

you're all looking for magic whereas faith comes by reading comprehension!

shukri

peace, already gave a reason if you bothered to read and study the subject.

If you have given a reason, thank you!
I hope Bro "LiberalGame" has studied your reason and accepts it as absolute proof that the Quran is from God.
AND his "Crisis of Faith" will end forever.

Note Once more ...
The knowledge given to us is minute (1785) to fully capture the Quran's wisdom.
What we need most is a proof that the Quran is not Muhammad-made book.
BUT the divine words from our Lord instead!

Ends.
So long!

jkhan

@ liberalgame

below is your concern...

Honestly I did ramble quite a bit, if you wish to respond, and I would appreciate that, here would be the main thing I'd like your view on, my main conundrum so far in a nutshell, I guess
'If you assume that The Qur'an is inspired by God, a lot of things make sense... but there are also a lot of things don't line up, like killing / war, worldy life, etc.
But if you assume that The Qur'an is written by a human living in the 7th century, a lot more things make sense, and the things that previously made sense seem to make more sense through this lens. Hell, Killing / War, Worldy Life, Punishments, Threats, that's my main conundrum, the fact that, if you believe it is from God, 60% of things make sense, 40% of things don't make sense, and if you assume it's from a human from the 7th century, it seems like 95% of the things make sense, 5% of the things maybe don't make sense.

So my question in a nutshell is, are there any verses / themes / principles from The Qur'an that, should it be viewed from a human 7th century lens, just wouldn't make sense at all for it being there, but should it be viewed from the 'Inspired by God' lens, it makes a lot more sense?'

You believe that God created the Earth and Heavens coz you believe in Him as God..
So.. let's approach to the world without human being... suppose you are the only human being on this Earth and you are looking at entire animal world... What would you decide? O! the creator is so unfair.. most of the animals do prey on others and the innocent animals do die at the hands of powerful animals... They fight each other for territory, for power, for prey, for many other things.. Would you ask like this, Can't God create the animal world in a way which is better than this?.. You would ask to yourself what is the purpose of these animals life / worldly life?
So, you are only capable of thinking in human capacity.. aren't you? You can't think beyond human capacity...
So dear.. avoid skepticism..
We may dislike a thing that is good for us.. we may like a thing that is not good for us...
You are strangled in one of these..
Thank you