40:26 او ان or that وان and that?
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In the case of which Qoran ,these questions arise
1- How many versions of Qoran came down.?
Qoran says one book with verses Each verse is unique and contains letters,words and sentence/s. They should be the same in all copies of the book. Otherwise we have different books . In this case which Qoran is this exactly now?2-Are the old manuscripts all exactly the same? Can one order them by an exact date?
3-What about the Arabic language ,did it evolve?
4-Is GOD not aware of all these books/changes?
GOD will have this answer in His book surely or does the answer not exist?
GOD bless.
Peace. -
In the case of which Qoran ,these questions arise
1- How many versions of Qoran came down.?
Qoran says one book with verses Each verse is unique and contains letters,words and sentence/s. They should be the same in all copies of the book. Otherwise we have different books . In this case which Qoran is this exactly now?peace,
one version and no word in the book "verse/s" meaning cataloging which is man made for easy reference as door numbers or street addresses and not same meaning as ayat i.e., sign/s.perhaps instead of asking questions do basic research to see oldest manuscripts were different from the revision made 100s of years after revelation which was different from 1924 Cairo edition which was different from the ones they cast in the river Nile which was different from today's King Fahd edition written by this guy Uthman Taha
https//www.arabnews.com/node/1210751/saudi-arabia
2-Are the old manuscripts all exactly the same? Can one order them by an exact date?
mostly same those within a time period, slight variance, copyist human errors, use of alif, etc.
3-What about the Arabic language ,did it evolve?
the script evolved, all languages meanings like kalala get lost, new words e.g., airplane added, etc.
4-Is GOD not aware of all these books/changes?
yes
GOD will have this answer in His book surely or does the answer not exist?
what are you asking?
another example see 7th line from top, first two words ( هم hum missing?)
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/43/verse/19/manuscripts/116/page/26r4319 وجعلوا and make they of الملىكه the controllers (angels) الذىن the ones هم hum/themselves عبد devotees الرحمن the Almighty انثا females of اشهدوا did witness they of خلقهم creation them ستكتب shall be written شهدتهم testimony theirs وىسلون and questioned being
الذىن عبد الرحمن -- is the phrase correct without hum or copyist error?
other old manuscripts confirm written with hum and 26 other occurrences7154 للذىن for the ones هم hum/themselves
1970 بالذىن in the ones هم hum/themselves1127 232 2357 5111 5212 7023 1075 1076
الذىن the ones هم hum/themselves7156 107 16100 16128 233 234 235 238 239 2358 2359 7027 7029 7032 7033 7034
والذىن and the ones هم hum/themselves2563 وعبد and devotees الرحمن the Almighty الذىن the ones ىمشون walking على on الارض the land هونا humble of واذا and when of خاطبهم address them الجهلون the ignorant being قالوا said they of سلما salaam/peace!
https//i.postimg.cc/cHVG6f02/ch43v13-v32.jpg
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Peace Noon.
Of course I am doing my research, That is why I ask the questions.
Now , have you researched the arrangement of Qoran? Who put it in the form we have now? And why does it contain 114 surah? Have any surah been added or taken away? ... You can add other questions if you like...And so on...I am asking in general for reflection. It is not important to me anyone s answer apart from info like all the other info that are available from all other researchers.
For me the most important questions are these two
1- Is Qoran from GOD?
2_How can one be certain?So, if one is certain the Qoran they have now with them is from GOD, and they believe every word , what is it saying to them?
Any debate about which Qoran will then be irrelevant, because your Qoran should do the job for you it says it does. i,e Be your catalogue and guide from GOD to you.
Not necessary to debate ,only uphold its laws/instructions and learn the lessons from it.But give any important info. This we are all entitled to.As far as history is concerned and its people, they have what they worked for and we will have what we work for,
Every generation has its pioneers, researchers and courageous people who sacrifice most things and even themselves to serve GOD like GOD s messengers from the past and the future and many other believers... GOD is also aware of this and has not left anything important to tell us about in Qoran.
Brother let us both ponder the copy of Qoran we have, that we know is from GOD, and use it to better ourselves .
Let us embark with Noah on the "ship" and strive to move up the stages of GOD s knowledge to save ourselves .Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace,
one version and no word in the book "verse/s" meaning cataloging which is man made for easy reference as door numbers or street addresses and not same meaning as ayat i.e., sign/s.perhaps instead of asking questions do basic research to see oldest manuscripts were different from the revision made 100s of years after revelation which was different from 1924 Cairo edition which was different from the ones they cast in the river Nile which was different from today's King Fahd edition written by this guy Uthman Taha
https//www.arabnews.com/node/1210751/saudi-arabia
mostly same those within a time period, slight variance, copyist human errors, use of alif, etc.
the script evolved, all languages meanings like kalala get lost, new words e.g., airplane added, etc.
yes
what are you asking?
another example see 7th line from top, first two words ( هم hum missing?)
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/43/verse/19/manuscripts/116/page/26r4319 وجعلوا and make they of الملىكه the controllers (angels) الذىن the ones هم hum/themselves عبد devotees الرحمن the Almighty انثا females of اشهدوا did witness they of خلقهم creation them ستكتب shall be written شهدتهم testimony theirs وىسلون and questioned being
الذىن عبد الرحمن -- is the phrase correct without hum or copyist error?
other old manuscripts confirm written with hum and 26 other occurrences7154 للذىن for the ones هم hum/themselves
1970 بالذىن in the ones هم hum/themselves1127 232 2357 5111 5212 7023 1075 1076
الذىن the ones هم hum/themselves7156 107 16100 16128 233 234 235 238 239 2358 2359 7027 7029 7032 7033 7034
والذىن and the ones هم hum/themselves2563 وعبد and devotees الرحمن the Almighty الذىن the ones ىمشون walking على on الارض the land هونا humble of واذا and when of خاطبهم address them الجهلون the ignorant being قالوا said they of سلما salaam/peace!
https//i.postimg.cc/cHVG6f02/ch43v13-v32.jpg
Your assumptions are ridiculous and what they say about Quran is pathetic...
Door number or street numbers.. Lol rotfl rotfl
Then who built the street or who made the door.. ? rotflGod sent Quran... And every other addition is human infusion... Verses spoken from angel messengers to human messengers... Rest is human creation... Did jibreal write the Quran? So take the meaning literally and don't go search English museum for your guidance..
God says He sent down the book... But.. Did He really sent down the physical book? No...
So... When Mohamed told bring g Torah and read it to me... Is it physical? Yes.. Otherwise mohamed could have said read Torah to me.. No need to say "bring Torah" ...
So.. Likewise how did this physical form of books reached to people if God is not indirectly involving in the process. God chosen messenger to deliver and not to deliver physical books.. But God let the Messengers to write down so that it would be heralded.. When God promised He will preserve the Reminder(.Quran) do you claim to say He has not preserved? Nobody can preserve words spoken by another with time... Unless in modern era... Audio records or video records.. So whatever mohamed heralded as a messenger cannot be preserved in audio form? Agree? Who cares you agree or not.... Lol.. Even others memorise, it is not direct preservation.. Coz then people have to depend on those who memorized.. Why to trust them...who are they? But if audio of the messenger cannot be preserved then in what form God preserved the book? If audio of prophets of Israelite couldn't be preserved then how come Muhamed ordered to bring Torah and read it to himself... So how Muhamed trusted the entire book of physical book of Torah while the messengers who wrote Torah were no more... Don't play with the words of God bro... God has preserved and try to find guidance in it. If anything included God would expose, coz how can God guide someone while falsehood is on the same book? So God guided ones definitely would choose the entire book which God has sent and none other ... No worries... Others will hold on to every forged verses and hadiths with them...
This book will guide to the straight path... God says.. So it has to be this book and not the additions of human... Only intelligent will reflect...
Keep searching old manuscripts and wasting time while God guides coming close to believers... Believers dont need to go and search for God's book God's real book.. It's God's duty and He will definitely expose truth to them while they read His verses and other nonsense... Truth will be exposed.. That's God's duty.. Not coz you say it is added it is deleted it won't become truth...
Make it or break it all up to individuals. . -
Peace Noon.
Of course I am doing my research, That is why I ask the questions.
Now , have you researched the arrangement of Qoran? Who put it in the form we have now? And why does it contain 114 surah? Have any surah been added or taken away?peace good logic,
you're adding little to this discussion only drifting off topic
yes, researched the arrangement; form today is different
it doesn't matter if 113 or 114 long as the text is all there
114 sayings https//www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.htmlyes, all chapters were there initially different arrangement
e.g., this manuscript ch 37 follows ch 26 (not a copy mistake)
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/37/verse/1/manuscripts/222/page/7fact is oldest manuscripts initials not separate until hundreds of years later (this is clear)
21 الم alif lam meem (together with 22) ذلك such الكتب the book ...
31 الم alif lam meem الله the God لا not اله deity الا except هو he ...
71 المص alif lam meem saad كتب book انزل descends الىك to you ...101 الر alif lam ra تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book الحكىم the wise
111 الر alif lam ra كتب book احكمت are perfected اىته signs its
121 الر alif lam ra تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book المبىن the clear
131 المر alif lam meem ra تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book
141 الر alif lam ra كتب book انزلنه descends we it الىك to you ...
151 الر alif lam ra تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book ...191 كهىعص kaaf ha ya ain saad ذكر remembrance ...
201 طه ta ha ما not انزلنا descends we of ...261 طسم ta seen meem تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book المبىن the clear
271 طس ta seen تلك those اىت signs القران the qur’an وكتب and book مبىن clear
281 طسم ta seen meem تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book المبىن the clear
291 الم alif lam meem احسب do calculate (assume) الناس the people ...301 الم alif lam meem غلبت lost (or triumph?) they الروم the romans
311 الم alif lam meem تلك those اىت signs الكتب the book الحكىم the wise
321 الم alif lam meem تنزىل revelation الكتب the book ...
361 ىس ya seen والقران and (by) the qur’an الحكىم the wise381 ص saad والقران and (by) the qur’an ذى owner الذكر the reminder
401 حم ha meem تنزىل revelation الكتب the book ...
411 حم ha meem تنزىل revelation من from الرحمن the Almighty الرحىم the merciful
421 حم ha meem عسق ayn seen qaf كذلك like such ىوحى inspired الىك to you ...
good example (all three combined)
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/42/verse/1/manuscripts/116/page/23r431 حم ha meem والكتب and (by) the book ...
441 حم ha meem والكتب and (by) the book ...
451 حم ha meem تنزىل revelation الكتب the book ...
461 حم ha meem تنزىل revelation الكتب the book ...501 ق qaf والقران and (by) the qur’an المجىد the glorious
681 ن noon والقلم and (by) the pen وما and what ىسطرون they writingYour assumptions are ridiculous and what they say about Quran is pathetic...
2563 وعبد and devotees الرحمن the Almighty الذىن the ones ىمشون walking على on الارض the land هونا humble of واذا and when of خاطبهم address them الجهلون the ignorant being قالوا said they of سلما peace of!
paragraphs are your friend and signs does not refer to man-made "door numbers"
they is according to scribes at time near revelation you're free to ignore and "rant" -
2563 وعبد and devotees الرحمن the Almighty الذىن the ones ىمشون walking على on الارض the land هونا humble of واذا and when of خاطبهم address them الجهلون the ignorant being قالوا said they of سلما peace of!
paragraphs are your friend and signs does not refer to man-made "door numbers"
they is according to scribes at time near revelation you're free to ignore and "rant"Oh poor you are... How many people I have seen bringing this verse they are desperate...
Hang on.. Perhaps something wrong in the verse check in museum... Lol
Or some letter missing in above verse.. So it may be different in meaning.. This is what you guys are preaching in this forum for ages...arent you..
Follow what Quran has advised.. When the ignorant ones address so that and instead don't copy and paste and that too with your own translation... So nonsensical...
Did you follow God's advice when ignorant addressed you... You didn't I hope.. rotfl
Instead you became arrogant and pasted like many pasting the same verse here... At least do that next time rather than copy paste.. rotflWhen ignorant address, don't bring the verse and paste here ..thata sheer ignorance of you.. rotfl
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Peace Noon.
You think I am off topic. So the title here clearly is about the letters in Qoran and I am discussing which Qoran?
I am saying to you and whoever has a copy of Qoran it does not matter about what is written in it,whatever is different has no relevance to how GOD is teaching His book.It is preserved with Him.
The book is alive to each generation and its author explains and teaches those who seek guidance and answer the call to come to GOD s knowledge.Does your Qoran explain who GOD is? Does it ask you to "Aamin Bi Allah"? How do you do that? Let me give an example about my Qoran
Here is what my Qoran says about GOD
1- "Afi Allah Chakk"? Is there any doubt whatsoever in GOD/about GOD? "Initiator of the universe..." i.e There are fundamental laws that He creates with- Kawaneen- Scientific and only sought /discovered through knowledge.
2-"La Taakhudhuhu sinatun wala nawm! . The laws are used continuously, He is with everything , and busy every second.ever living and ever present.
3-"Laisa Kamithlihi Chaii" . Nothing has any resemblance or like to Him. Each creation is alive with the Atom,proton, electron and they are the makeup of all matter of creation., He commands these laws.
4- You me and every human is made up with different laws than the animals ,plants ,other creations. We can know GOD and feel GOD through our makeup of software- listening , seeing and brain- i.e using our faculties and using His book/catalogue/ knowledge.Then we can strive to "believe" in all This system of GOD that He commands on His creations. Then GOD takes you through the lessons, Qoran and you will be communicating and you do your learning in stages.
What people add or make mistakes with in Mushafs has no relevance.
Islam is a combination of salam, sal and Isaal... Learn GOD s knowledge by asking questions in the peaceful environment of the two of you-you and your Qoran, GOD is with us continuously- or study it with those who seek GOD s knowledgel.Which Qoran? It does not matter , GOD knows your innermost thoughts, mine and everyone. Seek Him and you will find out.He is live every second.
Hope you get me brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You didn't I hope.. rotfl
At least do that next time rather than copy paste.. rotfl
..thata sheer ignorance of you.. rotflhmm
peace good logic, you’re going off into la la land with jkhan
I asked simple question is there an alif? one word or two?
did he fear changing beliefs AND corruption OR either one?why a half a dozen old manuscripts have 4026 وان and that?
did the scribes 1400 years ago know what they were doing?
or are you saying that the guys in 1924 Cairo knew better?likewise, if you’re going to reply polite to answer questions
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Peace Noon.
Why only half a dozen old manuscripts ?SO may be the 1924 version was copied from a different manuscript and not the half dozen you mention?
What was in the original copy of the prophet? Do you know for sure?
Could the problem that you think is with the 1924 version be with the half dozen old manuscripts?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Noon.
Why only half a dozen old manuscripts ?SO may be the 1924 version was copied from a different manuscript and not the half dozen you mention?
What was in the original copy of the prophet? Do you know for sure?
Could the problem that you think is with the 1924 version be with the half dozen old manuscripts?
GOD bless you.
Peace.peace good logic,
you haven't researched at all else wouldn't ask why only half a dozen?
only a few survived from that period which were not available in 1924
1924 they picked hafs discarded all other versions cast them in the Nileoriginal is not available could be one of the earliest i.e. closest to source
go study see evidence early manuscripts different writing style, structure, etc., then hundreds of years later we see different style emerge e.g., some initials separated, different structure, 1000 alifs added especially in the middle of words then 1924 Cairo then King Fahd Qur'an then https//tanzil.net they add 1000 more alifs and split words in two like ىاىها O you!
again simple question 4026 (back then 4025) was it AND that / OR that?
the only way both could be right is if the word used in the language spoken would translate as AND/OR since those parts of dialog of past generations is a translation paraphrasing into Arabic.here is another example hafs/warsh variant (they are numerous)
5724 الذىن the ones ىبخلون stingy وىامرون and directing الناس the people بالبخل in the stinginess ومن and who ىتول turns away فان so indeed الله the God هو huwa/he (word missing in warsh?) الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthy
do we go with oldest available manuscripts and/or something else?
see 3rd line from bottom, 1st word
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/57/verse/24/manuscripts/163/page/191vsee 3rd line from bottom, 2nd word
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/57/verse/24/manuscripts/32/page/52v -
Peace Noon.
I get what you are saying. So we ask the followingDo the old Mushafs also differ in some way or are they all identical?
Why didn t they leave the old original one parallel with the new like you would with language translated Qorans now? i.e leave the original as it was from the beginning.
Is any of it GOD guided?
I work with the hafs version ,but I can also see that I can use all the other versions regardless of the differences that can be overcome by comparison of the verses -subject and context- The study has a basic criteria which is GOD guidance/teaching as far as my experience has shown me.
That sums up what I am saying to you about the differences i.e the collective verses on the subject will highlight for you the general message .Other verses will also show you the style and language of Qoran. to compare and check anomalies/sense and reasoning like letters,words out of context and contradictions.
The search for the answer we are looking for is ongoing and the correction of additions and false interpretations is ongoing.
In short it is not the difference in letters or odd words that is worrying but the false meaning of thousands of words and sentences of verses that exist in all the interpretations of the Mushafs that is troublesome and alarming.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace good logic
again not about hafs, old manuscripts pre-date him and warsh by 100+ years
old depends, some are also 100+ years apart and no original that's availableit's physical evidence from that time period not history according to someone
the closest to the time of revelation have in common
- initials alif lam meem et al not separate as today's
- chapter titles are there as they are in current copies
- the vast majority of differences are mostly with alifs
- there are also variations on words or missing words
personally disagree with much of today's interpretation e.g., inheritance, kalala meaning etc., likewise much can be determined via context, example
21112 قل qul/say (if قال qāla/said – in context who said?)
never states Qur'an (different word) is protected anyone can edit/delete/burn
381 ص saad والقران and (by) the Qur’an ذى contains الذكر l-dhikri/the reminderoldest manuscript 568-645 CE (95.4%) disagrees/pre-dates hafs/warsh (died ~800)
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/22/verse/4/manuscripts/158/page/82v
21109 توعدون tuaduna/thou promise being (wa missing?)
توعدن
222 وترى and thou see الناس the people سكرى sukārā/drunk (with alif?)
وما and not هم themselves بسكرى bisukārā/in drunkenness (with alif?)سكرىا
بسكرىا224 كتب written علىه upon him انه that he من man/who (missing?) تولاه befriends him
فانه so indeed he ىضله misguided him وىهدىه and guided him الى towards عذب punishment السعىر the blaze -
Peace Noon.
Since the original cannot be identified and with its exact date, the problem cannot be solved with certainty..
Predated versions can also contain human errors.If you are satisfied with your search and have your evidence ,then work with an old complete manuscript.
I am satisfied ,through my search, to carry on working with many manuscripts regardless of the changes.Thanks brother.
Peace. -
وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ ذَرُونِـىٓ أَقْتُلْ مُوسَـىٰ وَلْيَدْعُ رَبَّهُۥٓۖ
And Fir'aoun/Pharaoh said to his chiefs, "You people give me the leave so that I should kill Musa and let him call his Sustainer Lord —
إِنِّـىٓ أَخَافُ أَن يُبَدِّلَ دِينَكُـمْ أَوْ أَن يُظْهِرَ فِـى ٱلۡأَرْضِ ٱلْفَسَادَ .٢٦
Since I am certainly afraid that he may cause change/replacement of system/procedure of life of you people or he may cause disturbance/in equilibrium/disrupt status quo in the country".
The وَ is not possible grammatically. Waw conjuncts. It is apprehension of two possibilities. Giving options either---or
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The وَ is not possible grammatically. Waw conjuncts. It is apprehension of two possibilities. Giving options either---or
peace,
أَوْ أَنْ aw an/or that (logical OR)
2 occurrences 1187 204568 occurrences وَأَنْ wa-an/and that (logical AND)
also وَأَنَّ wa-anna (anna i.e., an inna)/and that indeedscribes close to revelation didn't all error on the same word
likewise, no fatha, kasra, damma diacritic marks back then
2nd line from top middle word
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/40/verse/26/manuscripts/377/page/21rhttps//i.postimg.cc/Bn4DL3XF/40-26-1.jpg
7th line from bottom 4th word
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/40/verse/26/manuscripts/37/page/2vhttps//i.postimg.cc/JhgGqC4P/40-26-3.jpg
15th line from top middle word
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/40/verse/26/manuscripts/173/page/22vhttps//i.postimg.cc/KvF4QNxS/40-26-2.jpg
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The hundred percent-correct speech identification value in literary terms is Eloquence par excellence. It is affect of superb composition of Qur’ān enables the reader to pronounce successive syllables easily and smoothly with no stress and fatigue on vocal cavity. This is indicative of superb coherence and contiguity in the text. It is superbly aligned not only for eyes by orthographic adjustments but also in the flow of sound waves generated by the syllables that help the auditory apparatus to retain and smoothly absorb them.
إِنِّـىٓ أَخَافُ أَن يُبَدِّلَ دِينَكُـمْ أَوْ أَن يُظْهِرَ فِـى ٱلۡأَرْضِ ٱلْفَسَادَ .٢٦
Since I am certainly afraid that he may cause change/replacement of system/procedure of life of you people or he may cause disturbance/in equilibrium/disrupt status quo in the country".
Instead of أَوْ put Wa and read the Ayah with little sound. Do we feel some difference?
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Instead of أَوْ put Wa and read the Ayah with little sound. Do we feel some difference?
peace, obviously like changing this part of 423
or that thou cohabit ye of between the sisters twoaw an tajmaʿū bayna l-ukh'tayni
wa-an tajmaʿū bayna l-ukh'tayniwarsh et al would disagree and/or early scribes 100+ years before him
waqāla fir'ʿawnu
dharūnī aqtul mūsā
walyadʿu rabbahu
innī akhāfu an yubaddila dīnakum
wa-an yuẓ'hira fī l-arḍi l-fasāda
aw an yuẓ'hira fī l-arḍi l-fasāda -
peace, obviously like changing this part of 423
or that thou cohabit ye of between the sisters twoaw an tajmaʿū bayna l-ukh'tayni
wa-an tajmaʿū bayna l-ukh'tayniwarsh et al would disagree and/or early scribes 100+ years before him
waqāla fir'ʿawnu
dharūnī aqtul mūsā
walyadʿu rabbahu
innī akhāfu an yubaddila dīnakum
wa-an yuẓ'hira fī l-arḍi l-fasāda
aw an yuẓ'hira fī l-arḍi l-fasādaIn 423, Aw cannot be the choice. It is part of compound complex sentence conjunct by waw.
وَأَن تَجْـمَعُوا۟ بَيْـنَ ٱلۡأُخْتَيْـنِ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ سَلَفَۗ
In addition, it is also prohibited that you might join-simultaneously collect two sisters in your Nikah/Matrimonial bond. However, that which has happened in the past that is a past-retrospective matter —
اور اس کی بھی حرمت و تحریم ہے کہ اپنے نکاح میں دو بہنوں کو مجتمع کرو۔یہ فوری نافذ العمل ہوگااس کا اطلاق ماضی میں جو ہو گیا اس پر نہیں ہوگا
It is
وَ حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُـمْ أَن تَجْـمَعُوا۟ بَيْـنَ ٱلۡأُخْتَيْـنِ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ سَلَفَۗ