My Mission - Quran's One Translation - Wiki/Open-Source/Debate Format

salman378

I am a 42 years old Successful Software Entrepreneur, Alhamdulilah. I have been gifted with an analytical brain as well as a believing heart. However, I believe both knowledge and belief are like Yin/Yang. One dies off without the other. Not until we marry both Knowledge and Action, Humility and Confidence, Fear and Hope, Truth and Love, Religion and Science, Ritual and Spiritual, Happiness and Patience, Belief and Inquiry - we can't become both holy and whole at the same time.

I think, most of the the problems of Muslims stem from outdated translations, exegesises and interpretations. Think about it, the first translation of Quran in English by a Muslim was done in 1910. After that we see some translations of Quran which carry a similar theme and without much creative dismantling of the message of God. Translations or Exegesises of Quran are currently more like words of popular people, which you either accept or reject. When was Truth about popular opinion of People or labels? Shouldn’t truth be a free inquiry? Should we fear God alone or the popular view among Muslims?

What I don’t like about the state of affairs of Muslims is our reliance on Schools of Thoughts than our own Self-Knowledge and original Sources of Islam. Especially now, when a lot of Science we’ve discovered and a lot of knowledge we have gained, the text in Quran translations remain the same, ambiguous, unfulfilling or unapproachable for the most part.

But nothing is lost! I am trying to bring together people who can work with me on this great cause and do it with me. My idea is to create a wiki/open-source one translation and exegesis of Quran that is open with debate format for skeptics, believers, philosophers, theologians, epistemologists, psychologists, economists, legalists, and scientists. Everyone has a say, the only thing is he/she has to prove why his/her translation is more accurate/updated/legit/simple/clear/scientific/true. And this way, the work on Quran is also never closed but remains open for all and is continuous.

Shouldn’t this be the case from the day one? I mean, Quran is not like a Harry Potter novel, which if once translated by someone, should become stale, unchallenged and uncreative with repetitive thoughts and hopeless attitudes. Quran is not a work of fiction. It is a book of Wisdom, Guidance, Lessons, Science, Miracles, Realizations and so many meaningful things. A single human is beyond the capacity to translate it accurately. We all have to put our efforts now that we're in 2022.

So if you're with me on this cause, lets join hands together and form a body that helps us in our mission. This might be the biggest service to Islam you can undergo instead of siding with Sectarian forces in Religion which are dividing it. In the same Token, I would like to broadcast my message to free-minds.org, if they want, we can begin this noble cause on their own platform. I am a Software Business Entrepreneur and Alhamdulillah successful as well. Maybe you use one of my products as well. More about me later when we get to a certain direction together. So I have skillsets to bring this vision to reality due to my entrepreneur skills in Full Stack Software Development.

So instead of distributing one PDF through free-minds.org, we will now have a complete debatable platform for Quran's One Translation, that can be challenged 'verse by verse', 'word by word' and the most convincing of the arguments will win, instead of the so-called 'popular opinion among Muslims'. Blind following blind both end up in a ditch. If Muslims were so advanced with what we have now, we wouldn't be having sites like free-minds.org There is definitely a problem here and I believe the intellectuals on this website as well as superb people behind free-minds.org can really help.

To clarify my points of view in a more succinct manner about how this is a serious issue in Muslims, I made a video on Quran’s Science, particularly on the topics of Cosmology and Evolution that you can view here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuq23pklsx4

In it I prove without doubt, how Seven Heavens in Quran are actually Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity, 'The Sun', 'The Moon', 'Mercury', 'Venus', 'Mars', 'Jupiter' and 'Saturn' which are visible through naked eyes. All seven bodies visible through naked eyes are the above. If you search Google for 'Seven Bodies of Classical Antiquity' you'll know what I am referring to. How the word 'lowest' for 'ad-dunia' is mistranslated where it should mean 'worldly' instead of 'lowest'. How the words 'Ardhi Mislahunna' have been mistranslated to mean Seven Earths even when the word 'Ardhi' is singular. It actually means 'Earth is just like Planets'. How 6 periods for Universe creation and 2 periods for Earth creation are accurate to the ratio of 4.54 billion years (Earth's age) / 13.8 billion years (Universe's age) matching perfectly with Quranic ratio of 2/6.

How the 4 periods for the age of 'Plate Tectonics', loosely translated as Mountain is 9 billion years. How the other bodies of Solar System are 2 periods as well, meaning 4.5 to 4.6 billion years. How the Cosmological accounts of Muslims in the past is wrong to mean Big Bang and how it is actually Solar System Creation story. How Evolution is true, even the Adamic Evolution and how it doesn't disrupt the general understanding of God creating Adam's Soul in Heaven. I am currently making part 2 of the Video and am exited to share it as well once it is done.

I tried to be as intellectually honest and unbiased as possible in the video. Please view the Video and tell me how you find it. I left no stones unturned. But even with all my efforts, I am just a feeble human being. I want to join hands with people who are well versed with Arabic. Since I have a Science background and an analytical brain, I think a marriage of these two would indeed help a lot in my cause which is mentioned above.

Noon_waalqalami

سلم علىك peace upon you! welcome to the forum!

In it I prove without doubt, how Seven Heavens in Quran are actually Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity, 'The Sun', 'The Moon', 'Mercury', 'Venus', 'Mars', 'Jupiter' and 'Saturn' which are visible through naked eyes.

limited, what about billions of galaxies?
63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت the skies وفى and in الارض the land

not always literal or timebound
896 الم did not تر see (realize) كىف how فعل dealt ربك lord your بعاد with Aad

Webb Telescope "see" applicable today
https//youtu.be/shPwW11MEHg?t=180

sun, moon, and stars mentioned separate
2218 الم did not تر see (realize) ان that الله the God ىسجد prostrated له to him من entities فى in السموت the skies ومن and entities فى in الارض the land والشمس and the sun والقمر and the moon والنجوم and the stars

https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/17/verse/36/manuscripts/107/page/1r

https//i.postimg.cc/3x6xb0vT/ch17v35-46.jpg

salman378

Walekum Salam - peace upon you too.

limited, what about billions of galaxies?
63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت the skies وفى and in الارض the land

For billions of galaxies Quran uses Samawaat at various places like Quran (503 where it is talking about whole Universe completed in 6 Periods. Why are you assuming that if Quran said that there are 'Saba Samawaat' then it automatically means that other heavens do not exist that are far beyond them? That view of yours is by continuing to believe that God made only these seven bodies of classical antiquity and nothing else. When it speaks about Saba Samawaat, it is clearly talking about seven celestial bodies of classical antiquity because after 7115 that mentions seven heavens, the next verse Quran 7116 said it includes both Sun and Moon.

not always literal or timebound
896 الم did not تر see (realize) كىف how فعل dealt ربك lord your بعاد with Aad

Webb Telescope "see" applicable today
https//youtu.be/shPwW11MEHg?t=180

What about mention of Planets, Sun and Moon in Quran 675 to 78 where Abraham saw a Planet (Qawqab), Moon and Sun. Again, seven bodies of classical antiquity.

sun, moon, and stars mentioned separate
2218 الم did not تر see (realize) ان that الله the God ىسجد prostrated له to him من entities فى in السموت the skies ومن and entities فى in الارض the land والشمس and the sun والقمر and the moon والنجوم and the stars

https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/17/verse/36/manuscripts/107/page/1r

'Did you not see' is not my only argument. You have to see my whole video to know what I am trying to say with more than just one proof.

Explain to me this verse also,

673 --- HE created seven heavens in layers. You do not see any imperfection in the creation by The Almighty. Keep looking; do you see any flaw?

Why is God emphasizing to see flaw if they can't see it. How can you see a flaw in something you can't see.

Furthermore, how do you explain my arguments in the 'Six Days' topic in the video which accurately match with Science if these bodies are in fact Seven Heavens as we know through Science that Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old (2 Periods) and Earth is also 4.54 billion years old (2 Periods). Have you seen the whole video yet? Please see the complete video.

Quran says,

Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds." (419)

And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing. (4112)

2 periods (days) for both. Each of seven heavens as well as Earth is 2 periods (days) to make.

Search on Google for 'Age of Sun', 'Age of Moon', 'Age of Mercury', 'Age of Venus' etc. and alongside search 'Age of Earth'

All come between 4.5 to 4.6 billion years ago. See the topic of Six Days in the video to know that 2 periods according to Science and Quran comparison indeed becomes 4.5 billion years.

Even in the next video i.e. part 2 I have discussed the topic of Aliens in which I have discussed that Quran mentioning seven heavens and beings that glorify in them could refer to cellular life on planets of our Solar System. There is research on Europa, Titan, Mars and other places where there maybe such a life that glorify God but we don't understand their glorification. Because other intelligent aliens elsewhere in the Universe could be highly intelligent as well as Quran mentions favoring us over 'kaseera' 'many' of God's creation so there are more intelligent beings in other parts of universe also.

Again, please watch the full video. Here is the link to the video again https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuq23pklsx4

Noon_waalqalami

Walekum Salam - peace upon you too.

limited, what about billions of galaxies?
63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت the skies وفى and in الارض the land

For billions of galaxies Quran uses Samawaat at various places like Quran (503 where it is talking about whole Universe completed in 6 Periods. Why are you assuming that if Quran said that there are 'Saba Samawaat' then it automatically means that other heavens do not exist that are far beyond them?

peace, if going to translate need to be precise e.g. you addressed me as plural.

watched your video it's all over the place need to focus one topic/word at a time
likewise, you assume that I assume and use biblical terms by poets e.g. "heaven"
“The mind is its own place and, in itself can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven.” – John Milton

we cannot continued this discussion until you first resolve the verse above

63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت l-samāwāti? وفى and in الارض the land

according to your video you're limiting The Almighty to earth and 7 planets?

btw, get rid of that awful glow font

good_logic

Welcome to the forum.
I have few questions if you do not mind.
Have you got a team in mind that you are inviting ?

Are you looking to start from scratch with the basics of the Arabic roots and meanings of the letters? What is the source you are going to suggest to use for this?

What is the criteria of knowledge/qualification you are looking for in people to have them join you?

Are you vetting alone or with a panel?

Have you got a place and a venue for the project? Or online?

Thanks .
GOD bless you.
Peace.

salman378

peace, if going to translate need to be precise e.g. you addressed me as plural.

watched your video it's all over the place need to focus one topic/word at a time
likewise, you assume that I assume and use biblical terms by poets e.g. "heaven"
“The mind is its own place and, in itself can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven.” – John Milton

we cannot continued this discussion until you first resolve the verse above

63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت l-samāwāti? وفى and in الارض the land

according to your video you're limiting The Almighty to earth and 7 planets?

btw, get rid of that awful glow font

There are three types of occurrences in Quran related to root word s-m-w-t

Sama - Sky, Atmosphere etc.
Saba Samawaat - Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity
Samawaat - Planets, Stars, Clusters, Universe or Universes

Samawaat - means any of the bodies of Universe including far reaches of our Universe and beyond. I

am not saying that Universe is limited in just these seven heavens. It is you who is assuming God only made seven heavens in total. Where in Quran it is said that 'I God, created seven heavens and that's all there is?' Where?

Saba Samawaat is Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity.

Here's why. 7115 mentions 'Saba Samawaat' i.e. Seven Heavens and in next verse 716 mentions Sun and Moon.

Let's assume God doesn't mean 'Saba Samwaat' to mean Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity. Why would he then say in 7116 ''And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?'

Why would God continue to verse 716 in this fashion? How is Moon and Sun significant for Seven Multiverses, Seven Layers of Observable Universe and Seven Layers of Atmosphere?

we cannot continued this discussion until you first resolve the verse above

63 وهو and he الله the God فى in السموت l-samāwāti? وفى and in الارض the land

I explained you already in my first reply as well that Samawaat is often used for stars, clusters, galaxies already in Quran. Why do you want to insist then God mentioning 'Saba Samawaat' is what God has created altogether and nothing else? It is your assumption based on previous belief you had. What this has to do with what actually is?

Where does in Quran it is said that God created seven heavens only. Tell me one verse where it is said so.

Furthermore, what keeps you away from the clarity in my video that speaks of how age of these seven bodies of classical antiquity as well as Age of Earth match perfectly with Science? Simple question to you.

What did God mean to say when he said he created seven heavens in layers? Do you think He's talking about layers beyond observable Universe? If you believe this based on Hadiths then note that even those Hadiths are all Zai'f as pointed out in my video.

What good purpose it is to reply to you continuously if you are not even open to look at the possibility, let alone accept it? You're not pointing me any mistakes in my video, all you're doing is continuing to rattle on with what you previously believed. Why not you continue to believe what you already believe and leave me alone then if you're not ready to even address specifics and clear proofs in my video.

That's like asking me, Why Quran says, 'We have adorned the worldly heaven with decoration of planets.' (Quran 376) mentions planets for decoration of sky? Planets are so few in number, how can they decorate the sky? Go ask God. Don't ask me this.

'We have adorned the worldly heaven with decoration of stars' (Quran 4112)

You should ask God why he did that not me. He should have only revealed 4112 and leave out 376. Right?

So why shouldn't I just shut up instead and don't speak to you. I don't see the point of Muslims now that have nothing Scientific in their arsenal and don't even question others like Students but always want to be a Teacher to everyone.

You're saying stuff like it is difficult to have conversation with you unless you continue with xyz verse. Why can't you yourself open your eyes wide, learn what is Scientific Method, see what logical fallacies if any I have made in my little video I sent you, and find the mistakes or arabic or science in it. You're not offering me anything helpful to improve my research or adding on to it, what you're doing is trying to strip away what I already have proven. All I want is that you disprove it. Simple.

I am not obliged to answer you about anything until you can ask a question that makes any sense. You yourself are limiting God's Universe by assuming that God made seven heavens and nothing else. It's you who are the problem, not me. I am open to Samawaat to mean objects of our Universe and beyond. All I am saying is that Quran makes it very clear that seven heavens is seven bodies of classical antiquity. This is not only based on 7115, 7116 but also 675, 676, 677 and 678. And even 41-9 to 12.

If you give a one liner answer again, please don't care to answer. Just forget it that we even had a conversation. I don't want to listen rattling of baseless arguments because then I rather ignore such people as a waste of time. If you can refute me with a detailed reply from what I have pointed out in my video, then you're welcome to answer.

What use is saying Salam or Peace be upon you etc. when we just want no Peace and just want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Only because we have a keyboard. Have something substantial that helps? Or want to make me feel myself stupid only?

Salam Alekum!

salman378

Welcome to the forum.
I have few questions if you do not mind.
Have you got a team in mind that you are inviting ?

Are you looking to start from scratch with the basics of the Arabic roots and meanings of the letters? What is the source you are going to suggest to use for this?

What is the criteria of knowledge/qualification you are looking for in people to have them join you?

Are you vetting alone or with a panel?

Have you got a place and a venue for the project? Or online?

Thanks .
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salam Alekum,

Good questions, thanks for your message.

Have you got a team in mind that you are inviting ?

Yes, sort of. I want people who have a good grip on Quranic Arabic. Others that have Scientific backgrounds, especially critical thinkers in the field of Astronomy, Medicine, Biology, Chemistry. Furthermore, people who have special interests in Quran and think out of the box. Remember, we can't let go off all the research and struggles of previous generations too. We must keep ourself in between. In between the creative, critical and out of the box thinking along with previous interpretations that are valid and sound already.

Are you looking to start from scratch with the basics of the Arabic roots and meanings of the letters? What is the source you are going to suggest to use for this?

Yes, from scratch. I think a few sites like quran.com, quranexplorer.com, quran-wiki.com, ejtaal.net, free-minds.org, zaytuna institute, bayinnah institute are great places to start for gathering research material. We can also contact a few previous translators like Dr. Mustafa Khattab etc. who wrote 'The Clear Quran' who might help in our cause.

What is the criteria of knowledge/qualification you are looking for in people to have them join you?

University Students with Islamic Studies, Alam Courses, Mufti Courses or Quranic Arabic Courses. College and University Students with Science Degree, Ph. D. or Postgraduate Diplomas in Cosmology, Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, LLB, Political Sciences, Islamic Studies, Comparative Religion etc. We can do this in first phase of the project, by contacting such talent from LinkedIn.

Are you vetting alone or with a panel?

Currently alone. But may include partners later based on their interests.

Have you got a place and a venue for the project? Or online?

Online. Skype Conference Calls. Zoom Meeting Calls. Asana for Project Management. Evernote for Document Sharing. Github for Developers. We'll set time and schedule meetings. The first meeting we can have once we have at least 3 individuals with passion for such a project.

Let me know what you think?

jkhan

Salam Alekum,

Good questions, thanks for your message.

Have you got a team in mind that you are inviting ?

Yes, sort of. I want people who have a good grip on Quranic Arabic. Others that have Scientific backgrounds, especially critical thinkers in the field of Astronomy, Medicine, Biology, Chemistry. Furthermore, people who have special interests in Quran and think out of the box. Remember, we can't let go off all the research and struggles of previous generations too. We must keep ourself in between. In between the creative, critical and out of the box thinking along with previous interpretations that are valid and sound already.

Are you looking to start from scratch with the basics of the Arabic roots and meanings of the letters? What is the source you are going to suggest to use for this?

Yes, from scratch. I think a few sites like quran.com, quranexplorer.com, quran-wiki.com, ejtaal.net, free-minds.org, zaytuna institute, bayinnah institute are great places to start for gathering research material. We can also contact a few previous translators like Dr. Mustafa Khattab etc. who wrote 'The Clear Quran' who might help in our cause.

What is the criteria of knowledge/qualification you are looking for in people to have them join you?

University Students with Islamic Studies, Alam Courses, Mufti Courses or Quranic Arabic Courses. College and University Students with Science Degree, Ph. D. or Postgraduate Diplomas in Cosmology, Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, LLB, Political Sciences, Islamic Studies, Comparative Religion etc. We can do this in first phase of the project, by contacting such talent from LinkedIn.

Are you vetting alone or with a panel?

Currently alone. But may include partners later based on their interests.

Have you got a place and a venue for the project? Or online?

Online. Skype Conference Calls. Zoom Meeting Calls. Asana for Project Management. Evernote for Document Sharing. Github for Developers. We'll set time and schedule meetings. The first meeting we can have once we have at least 3 individuals with passion for such a project.

Let me know what you think?

Salam...

Good to see immense passion to do something. Be positive in your tough journey.. May Allah bless if your intention is nothing other than the truth...
I will be always there in places where truth is...

Noon_waalqalami

There are three types of occurrences in Quran related to root word s-m-w-t

Sama - Sky, Atmosphere etc.
Saba Samawaat - Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity
Samawaat - Planets, Stars, Clusters, Universe or Universes

Samawaat - means any of the bodies of Universe including far reaches of our Universe and beyond. I

am not saying that Universe is limited in just these seven heavens. It is you who is assuming God only made seven heavens in total. Where in Quran it is said that 'I God, created seven heavens and that's all there is?' Where?

Saba Samawaat is Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity.

109 السما
9 والسما
1 سما
1 وىاسما
120 total (feminine sing.)

182 السموت
3 والسموت
5 سموت
190 total (feminine plural)

context is your friend where you get classical antiquity meanings?

Here's why. 7115 mentions 'Saba Samawaat' i.e. Seven Heavens and in next verse 716 mentions Sun and Moon.

Let's assume God doesn't mean 'Saba Samwaat' to mean Seven bodies of Classical Antiquity. Why would he then say in 7116 ''And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?'

Why would God continue to verse 716 in this fashion? How is Moon and Sun significant for Seven Multiverses, Seven Layers of Observable Universe and Seven Layers of Atmosphere?

7115 الم did not تروا see (realize) ye of كىف how خلق creation الله the God سبع seven سموت samāwātin (feminine pl.) طبقا superimposed of (thing that matches in form)

7116 وجعل and made القمر the moon (masculine) فىهن in them (feminine pl.) نورا light of وجعل and made الشمس the sun (feminine) سرجا radiant lamp of