Natural Disasters
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But natural disasters take place now I can't conclude they are doomed to hell.. But have a feeling believers always will be saved from natural disasters... No way God would destroy them.. God says by lightening I attack whoever I will.. It is a natural disaster but God put that disaster whom he wills.. Would God attack His true true believer by it? No chance...
Further... They can classify as muslim nations.. But is it in fact Muslim in the sight of God that's what matters... Anyway all over the world destruction do take place and it will for sure as per verse 1758..
Finally God would never from His destruction destroy His own real Ibadi believer.. That's beyond reality. I don't accept it.. He always saved His real believers every occasion that's proof within quran... But He won't save His real believers from what human causes unless He will.
Very interesting and deep dive explanation- thank you..
In one sentence, if I understood your explanation quoted above.... what happened in Turkey and Syria is a natural disaster that falls within 1758, which means it is from God as a punishment or say his anger or displeased with those nations..and only those will be impacted selectively who are not his believers... Because as you said God will never destroy his own real ibadi believer.Another question is in the past if those nations were destroyed completely and only prophet and few people were saved as they were his ibadi... what about the children and women in that city? are those collateral?
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Very interesting and deep dive explanation- thank you..
In one sentence, if I understood your explanation quoted above.... what happened in Turkey and Syria is a natural disaster that falls within 1758, which means it is from God as a punishment or say his anger or displeased with those nations..and only those will be impacted selectively who are not his believers... Because as you said God will never destroy his own real ibadi believer.Another question is in the past if those nations were destroyed completely and only prophet and few people were saved as they were his ibadi... what about the children and women in that city? are those collateral?
Men or women those who not accept the messenger and keep denying is the root cause for destruction of nations then... You may be referring women indicating Lut nation.. Do you think Lut wife was lesbian or someone who supported gays... No clue.. God never destroys for only one wrong Guy always destryed nations for totally rejecting His messengers...
Regarding children I have thoroughly discussed in the past in my own topic or either in someone else's topic... I can't remember topic.. Just pls search if interested you may find an answer.. Under two life two death topic or why God destroys children.. Can't remember topic.. But search and see.. BTW. Look for views of everyone in sha Allah...
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Peace Fusion.
GOD is in control and has already made. the balance.
What about the disasters that humans create like murders and war and oppression? Is this not clear that we are to blame?By definition, the surrender to GOD is to accept that GOD does everything and is in total control and is the all knowledgeable and the only power that deserves our total submission.. i.e To have total confidence and trust that GOD does everything for good reasons . He is fair and just. No one suffers any injustice period
.So for example ,can we blame GOD for preparing Moses and His people to confront Pharaoh and his system ? Yet GOD turned the table on the evil system of Pharaoh.and tested those after him in the same way by " If humans do good and live in surrender to GOD they do it for their own good and if they do evil and conflict to oppose GOD s system ,they do it against themselves£.
The most important question to ask is What is our role and responsibilities to live peacefully and securely here on earth all of us as brothers and sisters as one unit and one congregation?" Who sets the laws and criteria for us?
Then we may reflect that our creator always does and sets the best system for us to live in peace and total security if we only heed His message .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
No nation is alien in this age, people of multiple faiths are everywhere, who knows whats in their individual hearts?, and i personally believe these are signs of God, but do not think these events are punishments, believer surely find solace in all kinds of calamities and difficulties and will be blessed.
Life is just temporary everyone will find the end, but we should all keep our minds open to learn accept and for that we should reduce our idolizing thoughts like claiming my way is the best and others are wrong.
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Men or women those who not accept the messenger and keep denying is the root cause for destruction of nations then... You may be referring women indicating Lut nation.. Do you think Lut wife was lesbian or someone who supported gays... No clue.. God never destroys for only one wrong Guy always destryed nations for totally rejecting His messengers...
Regarding children I have thoroughly discussed in the past in my own topic or either in someone else's topic... I can't remember topic.. Just pls search if interested you may find an answer.. Under two life two death topic or why God destroys children.. Can't remember topic.. But search and see.. BTW. Look for views of everyone in sha Allah...
Its not about children only but many other folks like of 12-18 years of age innocent young boys and girls. I still want to believe that all must have been saved by God and only the evil ones destroyed.
5135 Then ˹before the torment˺ We evacuated the believers from the city.
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Peace Fusion.
GOD is in control and has already made. the balance.
What about the disasters that humans create like murders and war and oppression? Is this not clear that we are to blame?By definition, the surrender to GOD is to accept that GOD does everything and is in total control and is the all knowledgeable and the only power that deserves our total submission.. i.e To have total confidence and trust that GOD does everything for good reasons . He is fair and just. No one suffers any injustice period
.So for example ,can we blame GOD for preparing Moses and His people to confront Pharaoh and his system ? Yet GOD turned the table on the evil system of Pharaoh.and tested those after him in the same way by " If humans do good and live in surrender to GOD they do it for their own good and if they do evil and conflict to oppose GOD s system ,they do it against themselves£.
The most important question to ask is What is our role and responsibilities to live peacefully and securely here on earth all of us as brothers and sisters as one unit and one congregation?" Who sets the laws and criteria for us?
Then we may reflect that our creator always does and sets the best system for us to live in peace and total security if we only heed His message .
GOD bless you.
Peace.I thank you for your excellent reply that it makes sense. Its actually true for any nation where the social system became ill and eventually the nation will be destroyed in one way or another as they failed to uphold God's system (which include justice, caring for other humans and list goes on]. Which may also explain some nations appeared not believing on oneness of God but they still uphold the social system and fabric of caring, hence God may continue to give the chance to believe in him... while others where it may appear on paper to have believe in one god, while in day to day life every thing is evil, injustice, and wicked as overall, hence the system collapse
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No nation is alien in this age, people of multiple faiths are everywhere, who knows whats in their individual hearts?, and i personally believe these are signs of God, but do not think these events are punishments, believer surely find solace in all kinds of calamities and difficulties and will be blessed.
Life is just temporary everyone will find the end, but we should all keep our minds open to learn accept and for that we should reduce our idolizing thoughts like claiming my way is the best and others are wrong.
Could not agree more. we should not behave like saying "i am right and my way of thinking is correct" and your way of thinking needs to aligned with mine else you are on the wrong path. We all should have an open mind and listen to each other. Winning over hearts is imprtant than winning over arguments.
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Its not about children only but many other folks like of 12-18 years of age innocent young boys and girls. I still want to believe that all must have been saved by God and only the evil ones destroyed.
5135 Then ˹before the torment˺ We evacuated the believers from the city.
Yes I have covered all what you ask. . Just search and read if you really interested or find the truth on your own ehy God destroyed all but believers...
You can think 12-18.boys and girls saved with your whimsical approach... But reality is different... Haven't you ever seen how many of boys and girls die in natural disaster... I have covered all concerna in this forum..
No need to repeat...Have you ever wondered why Musa's teacher killed an innocent boy? Would the justification Musa's teacher gave Musa after killing satisfies you?
Do you think believers would leave their kids and teens would have left and entered the ship of Nuh? Would Nuh deny bringing them and boarding in ship... Reflect.. Meanwhile do you think disbelievers would send their babies boys and girls in to ship of Nova? It even Nova go and ask woukd the disbelievers abd over? Take them, but we don't come..
Just apply more common sense bro..When Lot and family left, do you think Lut stole all. Kids boys and girls of the town with him ? Is that what secretly escaping means..? Where is your logic...? Suppose if you are a Disveliever hypothetically during the time of Lut, and if you had four kids up to 18 age , would you let them go with Lut and why? Do you believe destruction gonna come so let's see kids?... Well I don't get your logic. .
If one doesn't understand it means he is not go the guidance through Quran to grasp the meaning though he is a believer... But don't underestimate those who are guided... Believers will never try to win the argument but they will always try to present the guidance inspired by God... If that is wrong people can bring better response then one can say Yes ach and such is wrong... But rationalising and streamlining a truth is wrong when it is exposed, just coz simply not getting the truth...
Research and find the truth within Quran. Always answers within quran for guidance of truth..
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we should reduce our idolizing thoughts like claiming my way is the best and others are wrong.
That's a great attitude and thata how people should behave in life... But truth is exposed same quality should come in believers... Even though we were in some sort of opinion and if believer finds truth then believer should ponder and reflect.. Yes I was wrong and this is what QURAN says and I got this wrong up until now... That's why God tests to see whether we are ready to accept truth...
What is true or rather truth? For something to be tru it should be logical first and factual and evidence based... Beyond that nothing... So when we see all charactetistics for a truth we should either obey or bring evidence to show that it is not true... For that this person has to dig deep and find factual evidence to substantiate... While not bringing any factual evidence coupled with logic and still if one asks the other who claim this is the truth "why should I believe what you say" then he is nonsensical... Neither he has proof nor he has understood truth but still challenge the truth...
For example... Those who say we take only Quran for guidance, and we are believers on it... Coz they have realized it.. Now those hadith followers would say why should I believe what you say.. I see you as liars... How insane it is.. These believera within Quran bring all evidence and they reject facts and logic... If one reject facts and logic then truth doesn't exist... He kills the meaning of Truth...
So are these believrs who say we follow only Quran claiming we are right you are wrong with realisation? Yes.. But those who follow hadith failing to grasp doesn't make these people as a group like you say "My way is right and you are wrong "..
So simple... One who guided knows if he speaks within Quran that soeaks truth... It doesn't mean people no need to question him.. question and find whether he speaks the criteria of teuth which facts, evidence and logic.. If not he has got it wrong even though his intention is right...Like I said in my other thread, bring evidence within quran that God states in Quran that Moon has no light but it is reflected light? I am sure no one can bring evidence that it is reflected light. Then I am ready to debate.. It doesn't mean I am showing I am right they are wrong.. Right or wrong is exposed if everything clarified only...
I am not against your statement brother.. But if one feels it is not true, why silent bring the evidence and prove it is wrong.. Would real believers be adament when truth is exposed.. No.. In my case never.. If anyone bring evidence moon is reflected according to Quran and that truth has evidence fact and logic I would surrender.. Coz I need truth only and not wanted to live in falsehood hiding..
Hope you got my intention writing for small statement you made... Truth is one and it has no second truth to obey every fragile opinion.. Truth should stand out as...
God says they realised the truth then disbelieved... It means oeople can realise truth but not ready to accept..
Thank you... -
I thank you for your excellent reply that it makes sense. Its actually true for any nation where the social system became ill and eventually the nation will be destroyed in one way or another as they failed to uphold God's system (which include justice, caring for other humans and list goes on]. Which may also explain some nations appeared not believing on oneness of God but they still uphold the social system and fabric of caring, hence God may continue to give the chance to believe in him... while others where it may appear on paper to have believe in one god, while in day to day life every thing is evil, injustice, and wicked as overall, hence the system collapse
Yes, very much agree, the oneness of God itself is in a way saying, 'my god and your god are the same, even your rituals cultural signs may be different'. As muslims Quran asks us to fall before Masjid Al Haram even though there are many other signs of God, and there are so many discussions here on whats that about, and many of muslims believe it to be simply a place of importance, but I think it should be the way how we see what is God, as most Masjids temples and places of worship define God's attributes, this is also of God, the SACREDNESS of Him, the ignorance of man over the power of the creator.
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Ref
https//www.dailysabah.com/turkey/science-behind-turkiyes-twin-quakes-that-took-over-30000-lives/news
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY_3ggKg0Bc&t=431s
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
5131s
Later,˺ Abraham asked, “What is your mission, O messengers?”
They replied, “We have actually been sent to a wicked people,
to send upon them stones of ˹baked˺ clay,
marked by your Lord for the transgressors.”
Then ˹before the torment˺ We evacuated the believers from the city.
But We only found one family that had submitted ˹to Allah˺.1
And We have left a sign there1 ˹as a lesson˺ for those who fear the painful punishment.My questions
- Most of the worst hit (natural) disasters occur at wee hours,,, suggesting that the purpose/impact was to cause large casualties- people were taken by surprise in their sleep (morning or late evening).
- Some of the researchers when mapped those ancient doomed placed(as mentioned inQuran/Bible) in the vicinity of either volcano or earthquake prone areas (hence the phrases like baked clay showered, or city turned upside down).
- There are other examples like Pompe which was not part of any reference in the holy books from the point of view of a prophet sent. but its fate was similar-- indulged in similar activities as of people of Sodom and Gomorrah - which is volcanic eruption which is visible from the remains of those people even today as examples for others to take from. a lesson as also mentioned in few verses.
I still want to ask and ponder this question thought Jkhan and Good logic have provided their view... do others hold this belief that natural disasters at such large scale which overtook cities are actually punishment from GOD? yes there is no prophet sent or similar but the impact and outcome is the same - take example of pompe.
Thanks for your views. I asked this question because natural disasters does sound like faults in nature (like scientisits talk about earthg fault lines that shakes to create eaerthquake) but if we map these with the quran verses, we found those doomed cities were near to either a volcano or erathwuake prone aeas yet the triggering part was not nature but the command from God [prophet plus also messengers sent -as in case of Lut. where messengers were sent to either protect lut and take him away or to cause initiate the natural disaster.
Thank you
