Quran through Hadith
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Brother NDP.. if your intention is to make up things out of Quran verses instead of reaching its true meaning then how can God assist you...
There is No physical Loan Allah speaks in the verses where Loan is mentioned... No one can give loan to Allah in world material and He is of no need of such...
Carefully note below verse to grasp what Allah says... All the good actions of believers are mateporically a Lending to Allah for which Reward is waiting from Allah in manifolds and it is a promise from God...512 "And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish INTEGRITY (salah) and bring forth PURIFICATION (zakah) and believe in My Messengers and Support them and lend Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."
Isn't the above verse manifest? Allah doesn't talk about money or wealth when He says goodly loan to Allah .. Just try to perceive with reality...
So don't try to manipulate verses like you brought to substantiate. .
True meaning of the below verse is...5718 "Indeed, the men who truthful / sincere and the women who truthful / sincere and have lent Allah a goodly loan, will be multiplied for them, and they will have a noble reward.
There is no difference throughout the Quran that lending is not for people the wealth but lending to Allah believer's good actions collectively.. So in return Allah ensure a manifold reward in the hereafter..
Allah doesn't mind what a ruler or king or government does to gain wealth to run the kingdom... He is not giving tax rate for that... How cheap that understanding is.. Allah didn't send the Quran for Government purposes but for the sake of believers and for their right and guidance and for their wisdom etc.
Even for those who are in power (believers) Allah gives wonderful example as under..
2241 " those who, if We give them authority in the land, establish INTEGRITY (salah) and bringforth (purity) zakah and Enjoin what is appropriate / right (Maruf) and refrain /cease /desist what is misappriate / terrible /wrong. And to Allah belongs the outcome of matters."
So.. Allah doesn't say by the above verse when they were given authority make people Pray (Salah) and tax (zaka) them.. What nonsense? All rulers are ever ready to tax us fair or unfair.. What is so good here to say about believers who are given authority in the land to tax people. ... But Allah meant what the real verse speaks of as I elaborated above.. When true believers are entrusted power their solo effort is establish good governance that's to say keep the INTEGRITY in the government first and be role model to people thus they bringforth purification in their governement... And their aim is to Enjoin always what is appropriate to people and always desist what is misappriate to people.. That's what when the authority is vested in the hands of believers can expect.. But not compel. People to Pray and pay tax. How can one enjoin good and desist evil by compelling people to pray and pay tax... Nonsensical at its best..
So approach true meaning . And that is possible only within Quran and not from Hadiths and its practices or the language of Hadith to understand Quran.
But your life.. Do what you want.. And be responsible for your decision and action... Am I not free from your actions?Thank you.. Have a good journey with Hadith. .
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512 and bring forth PURIFICATION (zakah)
what does that mean bring forth example?
did you cross-reference all 30 occurrences?7320 واتوا and give ye of الزكوه the purification? (how?)
42 واتوا and give ye of الىتمى the orphans امولهم wealth (inheritance) theirs2177... واتى and give المال the wealth
... واتى and give الزكوه the purification?5718 "Indeed, the men who truthful / sincere and the women who truthful / sincere and have lent Allah a goodly loan, will be multiplied for them, and they will have a noble reward.
3335 ... والصدقىن and the sincere (m) والصدقت and the sincere (f) ...
والمتصدقىن and those charitable (m) والمتصدقت and those charitable (f)Thank you.. Have a good journey with Hadith. .
you saying those 100's of hadith about wealth tax and charity are fake?
you want to answer questions posted to you above or why open thread?
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Based on my research the concept of Zakat, which is the obligatory charity given by Muslims, had a broader social and economic significance beyond mere wealth distribution.
Zakat was not just a form of charity, but rather a means of establishing a just socio-economic system in society and the purpose of Zakat was to create a welfare state where wealth is evenly distributed, poverty is eradicated, and social justice is upheld. Hence Zakat was intended to be used for the welfare and well-being of the entire community, and not just for the benefit of individuals.
Zakat should be collected and distributed by the state, rather than being left to the discretion of individuals or voluntary organizations. The Quranic injunctions related to Zakat were meant to provide a comprehensive framework for the economic system of an Islamic society, and that the state should play a central role in ensuring that the wealth of the society is properly utilized for the welfare of all its members.
Source
https//www.parwez.tv/ejaz/The-Quranic-System-of-Sustenance-by-G-A-Parwez-Tolue-Islam-Trust.pdf -
what does that mean bring forth example?
did you cross-reference all 30 occurrences?7320 واتوا and give ye of الزكوه the purification? (how?)
42 واتوا and give ye of الىتمى the orphans امولهم wealth (inheritance) theirs2177... واتى and give المال the wealth
... واتى and give الزكوه the purification?3335 ... والصدقىن and the sincere (m) والصدقت and the sincere (f) ...
والمتصدقىن and those charitable (m) والمتصدقت and those charitable (f)you saying those 100's of hadith about wealth tax and charity are fake?
you want to answer questions posted to you above or why open thread?
Salam again...
Well... Yes.. I am absolutely fine with debating with anyone who speaks logic and who would assist me finding truth in case I have chosen wrong option... So stick with Quran and reply so my journey would be easy... Don't deviate from Quran so I am not here to reply from Hadith...
Well.. I have clearly explained WA'ATHU its root... Just don't take it as GIVE in the sense from your side to other party.. But it has within Quran many meaning other than Give.. It has meaning of come with, bringforth, come, produce etc. You can refer all quran verses relevant to it.. Since you have taken Zakath as obligatory charity (a material) from rich to poor then what else you can take other than give from one side to other.. First correct your notion and find out the meaning of the particular word usage within Quran..
Even I think you don't get the exact meaning of Give in English.. It is not always A to B but B to A also..I have cross referenced all.. I don't leave space for error usually before I debate when I am on the right track from Quran...
Don't just take verse for granted when in arabic MeeM is used before a word.. For example Aminu to Mumin... Similarly verse 3335 ... A perfect verse... Pls everyone read the verse in arabic.. Even Arabs pls check... Here Sadiqeen is mentioned and Muthasaddiqeen also mentioned... Yes... Sadiqqeen here is without any doubt (Men who are truthful / Sincere) meanwhile MuThasaddiqeen here is undoubtedly (Men who are charitable /Generous).. But you NDP has either intentionally claiming comparing the MuThasaddiqeen of verse 3335 with verse 5718 which is not Charitable and the word used in 5718 is Musaddiqeen and not MuThasaddiqeen ...
Excellent example is Yousuf brothers in verse1288 " So when they entered upon Joseph, they said, "O 'Azeez, adversity has touched us and our family, and we have come with goods poor in quality, but give us full measure and be charitable to us. Indeed, Allah rewards the charitable. (MuThasaddiqeen) "
As I stated in the above verse any general knowledge person can understand that here the word is in fact not TRUTHFUL or SINCERE but CHARITABLE... if anyone apply truthful it won't give sense...
So don't waste time in useless effort with Zakath through hadith reference... Why not say that you follow hadith rather than play cat and mouse by saying just taking language reference but not following... Be honest like Fusion he says he follows Hadith..
Well you say those 100s of hadith on Zakath tax are fake.. Of course fake.. It's not Quran... It is invention by those who came to power after prophets era manipulating verses to their own benefit by taking people money unfairly for their own benefit and corruption but they would have made it look fair seeming.. Yes we collect and give to poor people(similarly modern day leaders start massive projects for the sake of people but they earn considerably)... Allah is clear about word Zakath. .it has no connection at all with Charity... If it is in dictionary of Arabic then it has to do with those corrupt rulers since they used this Zakath as Charity so impulsively it has become part of language... But not QURAN... No one can change the words of God and its true meaning... Yes.. You can take what you want but truth remains high and handsome..
Even how much you debate you will never able to prove Zakath is obligatory charity coz God's truth cannot be overwhelmed...
Bro.. Give Sadaqa... If you have friends and community then do it in unity as a concerted effort... All works. Sadaqa 960 is clear... Quran states.. They ask what to spend. . God replies excess... All these sadaqa... No Zakath... Yes... Keep doing with good intent sadaqa seeking Countenance of Allah thus bring forth Zakath (purity) to yourself.Bring your next negative point. I am ready to reply... When I open a topic I never run away.. Coz.. Only intention while open a topic is Either I know truth is gonna shine or I am gonna learn truth... So try to dump truth but you can't ..
Thank you ..
Note... One would think.. After all Sadaqa or Zakath they all spend from their wealth.. So what's big deal... Yes God knows benefit for what they spend but we can't belie God's verses... We can't make statements which is not true... For example my ancestors used to give charity called Zakath fitr on the conventional Muslim Eid. They distribute loads of rice.. Well charity... No issues... But when I asked as young boy their reply was prophet said whoever gives on this day Zakath fitr.. Bla bla... So they take Allah and Messenger for their action... No one is gonna survive by saying what Allah and Messenger didn't say.. Be it good statement or bad... If Allah and messenger didn't say so and if still one say that Allah said or prophet said then it is a blasphemy.. Huge one... Regardless their action... Waste of effort... How brave we should be to say Allah said while in fact Allah didn't say... Do we ever know anything away from Quran to claim that Allah said to say freely "Allah said"...we can always say Allah said only from Quran.. How disgusting you will feel when one says you said this and that while if fact you didn't say so... If it is disgusting to you then is it pleasant to Allah while you say what He didn't say..
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Based on my research the concept of Zakat, which is the obligatory charity given by Muslims, had a broader social and economic significance beyond mere wealth distribution.
Zakat was not just a form of charity, but rather a means of establishing a just socio-economic system in society and the purpose of Zakat was to create a welfare state where wealth is evenly distributed, poverty is eradicated, and social justice is upheld. Hence Zakat was intended to be used for the welfare and well-being of the entire community, and not just for the benefit of individuals.
Zakat should be collected and distributed by the state, rather than being left to the discretion of individuals or voluntary organizations. The Quranic injunctions related to Zakat were meant to provide a comprehensive framework for the economic system of an Islamic society, and that the state should play a central role in ensuring that the wealth of the society is properly utilized for the welfare of all its members.
Source
https//www.parwez.tv/ejaz/The-Quranic-System-of-Sustenance-by-G-A-Parwez-Tolue-Islam-Trust.pdfSalam...
What research you talking about bro... Research of Hadith? Or research of Quran?
I am not gonna say much about what you say coz what you say is mere yiur words not the words Quran... Or do you want us to follow Hadith so we may understand the meaning of Zakath... So.. In that case before you talk about Zakath just pls talk about accepting Hadith parallel to Quran... So once the matter of following hadith is justified then you can talk about Zakath... Coz Whatever you say is based on Hadith... But we are people who follow Quran alone that's to say loterally Muslims who accepts God's book alone for the success of here after.. It doesn't mean we are people who don't think of nature and take guidance from it.. Of course we do... Quran itself propel is to reflect on the creation of God which is nature .. Guidance through literal written book plus God's nature/creation...
So.. Bro.. What research? So you parroting hadiths and say researched and encourage people to follow indirectly... Do you have any authority from Allah to encourage people to follow Hadith..? If you have bring a verse from Quran so that's why you follow hadith so you encourage...
So lovely brother, bring a verse from Quran that recommends to follow Hadith so we will also follow.. So then we can talk about Zakath later....isn't that a fair call dude..?You have researched what? Lol..
So 960 Sadaqa can't upheld that social comprehensive framework? Why deviate? What makes you deviate..?
960 Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect and for bringing hearts together and for freeing captives and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the traveler - an obligation by Allah. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
See how they have translated the verse 960... How come they replace the word Sadaqa written in black and white into Zakath expenditure...? One thing is for sure they realized this verse talks about extensive distribution of wealth.. So they inserted Zakath to the word sadaqa... So God is clear Sadaqa is mere a charity and an extensive charity if done in an extensive manner collecting from people.. Otherwise why to lay for those who collect or work for Sadaqa matters.. Use wits...
Anyway God guides... If misguided what can we do... -
In Islam, the Quran is considered the primary source of guidance and the final authority on religious matters. It contains the fundamental principles and values of Islam, and Muslims believe it to be the word of Allah (God) as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) through the Angel Gabriel.
The Hadith, on the other hand, refers to the recorded sayings, actions, and approvals of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. Muslims consider the Hadith to be a secondary source of guidance, as it provides specific examples and explanations of how to apply the principles outlined in the Quran.
While the Quran does not explicitly mention the Hadith as a source of guidance, it does instruct believers to follow the Prophet's example and obey his commands (Quran 3321). Therefore, the Hadith is considered an important tool for understanding and implementing the teachings of the Quran.
In regards to Zakath, the Quran specifically mentions this concept and outlines its various beneficiaries. However, the Hadith provides further details and clarification on the exact calculation and distribution of Zakath. Therefore, a thorough understanding of Zakath requires an understanding of the Hadith.
In conclusion, while there are different schools of thought within Islam regarding the role of Hadith in Islamic teachings, it is generally recognized as a valuable tool for interpreting the Quran and understanding the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Additionally, the Hadith provides further details and clarification on specific religious practices, such as Zakath. Muslims are encouraged to seek knowledge and conduct research to deepen their understanding of Islam, and approach religious discussions with an open mind and a willingness to engage in constructive dialogue.
Thanks
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the word used in 5718 is Musaddiqeen and not MuThasaddiqeen
fasalam laka!
960 الصدقت Aş-Şadaqātu/the charity
5718 والمصدقت Wa Al-Muşşaddiqāti/and those charitable (f) (with meem م)
3335 والمتصدقت Wa Al-Mutaşaddiqāti/and those "that are" charitable (f) (with meem م ta ت)2245 من who ذا bearer الذى the one ىقرض loaned الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
فىضعفه so multiplied it له to him اضعفا multiples of كثىره much its
والله and the God ىقبض withholdeth وىبسط and grants abundance
والىه and towards him ترجعون thou returningsee context chapter 57 on spending, giving, and stinginess
5710 وما and what لكم for you الا that not تنفقوا spend ye of فى in سبىل pathway الله the God ...
5711 من who ذا bearer الذى the one ىقرض loaned الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
فىضعفه so multiplied it له to him وله and to him اجر payment كرىم noble5718 ان indeed المصدقىن those charitable (m) والمصدقت and those charitable (f)
واقرضوا and loans they of الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
ىضعفلهم multiplied for them ولهم and for them اجر payment كرىم noble5724 الذىن the ones ىبخلون stingy وىامرون and directing الناس the people بالبخل in the stinginess
Well you say those 100s of hadith on Zakath tax are fake.. Of course fake.. It's not Quran
they decided to call it "zakat" instead of "wealth tax" whatever doesn't mean it's fake.
do you think society can run without tax system or government e.g., as an anarchy?
I am ready to reply... When I open a topic I never run away
then don't write so much take your time answer prior questions
• فِضَّةٌ (fidhdhah) "silver" root fā ḍād ḍād (ف ض ض)
314 934 4333 7615 7616 7621
• بِوَرِقِكُمْ (biwariqikum) 1819 وَرِقِ (warqi) from root "و ر ق" (w-r-q)
silver or leaf? what's the difference two words used above?what's the difference in words used for year/s?
• سَنَةٍ (sanah or sanatin) - "year" from root س ن و (s-n-w)
• سِنِينَ (sinīna) - years plural form of "سَنَة" (sanah)
why 4615 it says forty sanatan NOT forty sinīna?1247 قال said تزرعون thou planting سبع seven سنىن years (lunar or solar?)
does it mean plant for 7 years duration?
does it mean 7th year season is off 2.5 months?
(7 lunar years) - (7 solar years)/months = -2.50• عَامٍ (aam or aamin) - "year" from root word ع م و (a-m-w)
plural form is "أَعْوَامٍ" (a'wamin), dual عَامَيْنِ (aamayni) 3114
1249 ثم furthermore ىاتى bringeth من from بعد after ذلك such عام year (lunar or solar?)
3114 وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his فى in عامىن year two (lunar or solar?) -
peace,
While the Quran does not explicitly mention the Hadith as a source of guidance, it does instruct believers to follow the Prophet's example and obey his commands (Quran 3321).
Where in 3321 does it say that?
Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
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fasalam laka!
960 الصدقت Aş-Şadaqātu/the charity
5718 والمصدقت Wa Al-Muşşaddiqāti/and those charitable (f) (with meem م)
3335 والمتصدقت Wa Al-Mutaşaddiqāti/and those "that are" charitable (f) (with meem م ta ت)2245 من who ذا bearer الذى the one ىقرض loaned الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
فىضعفه so multiplied it له to him اضعفا multiples of كثىره much its
والله and the God ىقبض withholdeth وىبسط and grants abundance
والىه and towards him ترجعون thou returningsee context chapter 57 on spending, giving, and stinginess
5710 وما and what لكم for you الا that not تنفقوا spend ye of فى in سبىل pathway الله the God ...
5711 من who ذا bearer الذى the one ىقرض loaned الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
فىضعفه so multiplied it له to him وله and to him اجر payment كرىم noble5718 ان indeed المصدقىن those charitable (m) والمصدقت and those charitable (f)
واقرضوا and loans they of الله the God قرضا loan of حسنا best of
ىضعفلهم multiplied for them ولهم and for them اجر payment كرىم noble5724 الذىن the ones ىبخلون stingy وىامرون and directing الناس the people بالبخل in the stinginess
they decided to call it "zakat" instead of "wealth tax" whatever doesn't mean it's fake.
do you think society can run without tax system or government e.g., as an anarchy?
then don't write so much take your time answer prior questions
• فِضَّةٌ (fidhdhah) "silver" root fā ḍād ḍād (ف ض ض)
314 934 4333 7615 7616 7621
• بِوَرِقِكُمْ (biwariqikum) 1819 وَرِقِ (warqi) from root "و ر ق" (w-r-q)
silver or leaf? what's the difference two words used above?what's the difference in words used for year/s?
• سَنَةٍ (sanah or sanatin) - "year" from root س ن و (s-n-w)
• سِنِينَ (sinīna) - years plural form of "سَنَة" (sanah)
why 4615 it says forty sanatan NOT forty sinīna?1247 قال said تزرعون thou planting سبع seven سنىن years (lunar or solar?)
does it mean plant for 7 years duration?
does it mean 7th year season is off 2.5 months?
(7 lunar years) - (7 solar years)/months = -2.50• عَامٍ (aam or aamin) - "year" from root word ع م و (a-m-w)
plural form is "أَعْوَامٍ" (a'wamin), dual عَامَيْنِ (aamayni) 3114
1249 ثم furthermore ىاتى bringeth من from بعد after ذلك such عام year (lunar or solar?)
3114 وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his فى in عامىن year two (lunar or solar?)You are just repeating.. You don't read what I wrote and you raise again... Well no worries.. Let at least people read..
Wow... Why you say what I didn't say... Did I say a government can run without tax... Buy Allah has not mentioned tax directly or indirectly... That's your imagination...
By the way tax is not the best option for a government brother... If you think so then yiur weakness in economy is exposed... If tax is mandatory in a government then they don't need people money, they can print as much as they want... After all by taxing what they get is money... So why not print them as government.. But everybody knows the consequences of printing mkney at will.... In case if you don't.. Just ask anyone.. Lol... Taxing is not the solution bro... But be self sufficient.. Yani.. Produce enough and more.. Production of a nation makes a country viable and not by taking its own people... No nation ever can flourish by taxing own people.. Or even outsiders... Just study some economy when you have time... Otherwise go and live in Zimbabwe.. Hmm why not come and live my bankrupted country... Our government love to print lot of money and love to tax on all things but never bothered to produce anything.. . They love to import.. But no dollars...
Had Allah encouraged tax on persons and whatever then it means, Allah has encouraged people not to produce anything but be satisfied with tax... Tax is trick of a failing government... not successful one.. But let the tax.. But people of a nation will never be happy with tax... Coz it is burden on them instead government taking the burden it passa the burden on people... Anyway.. I am not bothered about world system.. I only talk about God's system..
I feel. Pity for you... Takr care.. -
Thank you for your response. I appreciate your passion for discussing topics related to God's system. However, I would like to remind you that it's important to discuss these topics with respect for each other's views.
In our discussion, I didn't mean to misinterpret your views or intentions. I apologize if my words came across that way. I only wanted to clarify my understanding of the topic at hand.
Regarding the topic of tax, I understand your perspective that taxing can be a burden on people, and that a successful government should focus on being self-sufficient by producing enough and more. However, I would like to point out that taxation is necessary for any government to provide essential services and infrastructure to its citizens.
In any case, I believe we can continue this conversation in a respectful manner, and I hope we can learn from each other's perspectives.
Thank you, and take care.
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peace,
Where in 3321 does it say that?
Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
Thank you for your comment. You are correct. In Quran 3321, it is stated that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has set a good example for believers, and those who seek God and the Last Day should think constantly about God. While the term 'Hadith' may not be explicitly mentioned in this verse, the understanding among scholars is that the Hadith, which refers to the sayings, actions, and approvals of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), is considered a source of guidance for Muslims based on the command in this verse to follow the Prophet's example. This is why many Muslims consider the Hadith as an important source of guidance alongside the Quran.
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Thank you for your response. I appreciate your passion for discussing topics related to God's system. However, I would like to remind you that it's important to discuss these topics with respect for each other's views.
In our discussion, I didn't mean to misinterpret your views or intentions. I apologize if my words came across that way. I only wanted to clarify my understanding of the topic at hand.
Regarding the topic of tax, I understand your perspective that taxing can be a burden on people, and that a successful government should focus on being self-sufficient by producing enough and more. However, I would like to point out that taxation is necessary for any government to provide essential services and infrastructure to its citizens.
In any case, I believe we can continue this conversation in a respectful manner, and I hope we can learn from each other's perspectives.
Thank you, and take care.
Pls No need your appreciation and thanks. I reiterate on that...
Don't give a hint to people that I am using kind harsh words do you are hurt so asking me to keep the debate in respectful manner showing respect to each other... Well don't try to win credit.. Firat of all I didnt even address you when I talked about Tax...Okay.. Since you also talked about Zakath = Tax and Sadaqa is like just charity. .let me ask a question to you and anyone.. What is the meaning of verses when Salah and Zakath comes together.. Does it mean establish prayers and pay government tax or you want manipulate to escape from shame.. For example pls translate the below verse..
"And He has made me (Isa) blessed wherever I am and has enjoined me with salah and zakah as long as I remain alive"
Translate pls. .i know people are good at twisting verses.. Pls do for this as well... Or let me do your job... Wait..
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and government TAX as long as I remain alive
Okay.. Take all verses where salah and ZAKAT and apply Tax in its real sense and perceive how blinded you guys are... Why not reflect before speak... Or these verses are are different kind of tax or not tax just ZAKAT? rotfl
So potty these hadith followers...
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In
While the Quran does not explicitly mention the Hadith as a source of guidance, it does instruct believers to follow the Prophet's example and obey his commands (Quran 3321). Therefore, the Hadith is considered an important tool for understanding and implementing the teachings of the Quran.
.Thanks
You simply don't know what you speak with Quran verses.. How fragile... Just at least look at word by word... But no... With blindfold on your eyes just uttering what comes to mind...
3321 is not at all mentioned Prophet or Mohamed... For people of that era while the message of God is being revealed there is no Quran...Messenger itself Quran coz Quran comes through his mouth.. In other times as he rightly claimed I am just a normal human being like you. So the verse 3321
"There has certainly been for you in Messenger of Allah an excellent lessons/examples for anyone whose hopes is in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah often."
In fact in the messages (Risala) of God that is to say in Quran loads of lessons for whom? For those whose expectations in Allah and Last day and who remembers Allah very often... In fact those who read Quran understands that how many lessons and reminders in it and that impulsively makes that person remember God ... Unfortunately as all hadith followers you all taking the Messenger as separate idol... Yes.. Mohamed is separate and prophet is separate but NOT MESSENGER.. he was a messenger coz he was placed Message... Otherwise he was just Mohamed.. Very very unfortunate you guys knowledge..
Let me ask differently... If Person Mohamed has excellent examples to follow, then from where he developed those excellent examples? Which book taught him those excellent examples.? He and his companions were near the pit of hell before QURAN was revealed to them.. So how Mohamed set excellent examples? Coz you don't find excellent excellent examples in Quran about Mohamed so you prefer hadith about his excellent examples.. But how did he manage to cultivate in the first place excellent traits if not from Quran?Do you have human brain or Brian of cow O people of Hadith... Is what Allah says true and perfectly matched to you people? As stated.. They are not reflecting and like cattles and worse than cattles..
Or else.. For instance.. 604 it states In Ibrahim and his people excellent examples /lessons... For the sake of argument let me keep away Ibrahim.. And let me ask what excellent examples God is talking about from the people of Ibrahim... Just reflect... When God says something in a Quran verse just use your wits bro... The verse itself clear. .quran itself full of excellent examples... Read 604-6 you will find excellent examples for your life.. Not in hadith..
606 "There has certainly been for you in them an excellent examples / lessons for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day.... ...
Do you see any difference in wording compared to verse 3321 ...
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Pls No need your appreciation and thanks. I reiterate on that...
Don't give a hint to people that I am using kind harsh words do you are hurt so asking me to keep the debate in respectful manner showing respect to each other... Well don't try to win credit.. Firat of all I didnt even address you when I talked about Tax...Okay.. Since you also talked about Zakath = Tax and Sadaqa is like just charity. .let me ask a question to you and anyone.. What is the meaning of verses when Salah and Zakath comes together.. Does it mean establish prayers and pay government tax or you want manipulate to escape from shame.. For example pls translate the below verse..
"And He has made me (Isa) blessed wherever I am and has enjoined me with salah and zakah as long as I remain alive"
Translate pls. .i know people are good at twisting verses.. Pls do for this as well... Or let me do your job... Wait..
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and government TAX as long as I remain alive
Okay.. Take all verses where salah and ZAKAT and apply Tax in its real sense and perceive how blinded you guys are... Why not reflect before speak... Or these verses are are different kind of tax or not tax just ZAKAT? rotfl
So potty these hadith followers...
Well... I love to see the translation of below verse from both Fusion and NDP..
417 Those who do not give GOVERNEMT TAX( zakah), and in the Hereafter they are disbelievers (KAFIR)
Well... God must have mistaken.. Isn't He? Or He is letting loose few joke by this verse... Is God showing His sense of Humour side a bit?
All translations say it is Zakath.. So for you guys ZAKAT is gov tax.. Is that all your know bros...?
-
You are correct. In Quran 3321, it is stated that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has set a good example for believers,
Wrong again. The word for prophet (i.e. "nabi" does not exist in that verse.
Can you find me a verse in Quran where it states we must obey the prophet/nabi or obey Muhammad?
Perhaps this will help you
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598901.msg217606#msg217606Ask yourself, does Quran use haphazard/random wording or is every word in every place intentional?
Seriously. Ask yourself.
Check this out
And finally... there are only two verses in the entire Quran which mentions the word hadith and the Prophet together in the same verse.
- It tells us what happened when the Prophet told his wives a hadith
The Prophet had trusted some of his wives with a certain hadith, then one of them spread it, and GOD let him know about it. He then informed his wife of part of the issue, and disregarded part. She said ‘who informed you of this?’. He said ‘I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert’.
If the two of you repent to GOD, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then GOD is his ally, and so is Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers.
If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submissive, believers, obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins.- It tells us that those with the prophet should not stay and wait around for hadith of his when at his house, clearly showing that God differentiates between the hadith of the prophet and His hadith (as contained in The Quran), i.e. they are unequal and unecessary
O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes except if you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for hadith. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God.
Please consider what your answer to the questions stated in 7185, 456 & 7750 are. If you are in doubt as to which answer one should give, please read the verses which follow these two references.
Both occurrences are negative for the Traditional argument.
Reference
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Hadith_in_Quran.htm -
All translations say it is Zakath.. So for you guys ZAKAT is gov tax.. Is that all your know bros...?
did you not understand this?
quote author=Nom de plume link=topic=9612271.msg440774#msg440774 date=1681986265
they decided to call it "zakat"other tax they called "khums" and 1/5 doesn't mean tax
other tax they called "jizyah" and it does not mean taxlikewise, what were they giving / not giving?
273 314 وىوتون and giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves ىوقنون assured being417 الذىن the ones لا not ىوتون giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves كفرون rejecting -
did you not understand this?
quote author=Nom de plume link=topic=9612271.msg440774#msg440774 date=1681986265
they decided to call it "zakat"other tax they called "khums" and 1/5 doesn't mean tax
other tax they called "jizyah" and it does not mean taxlikewise, what were they giving / not giving?
273 314 وىوتون and giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves ىوقنون assured being417 الذىن the ones لا not ىوتون giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves كفرون rejectingJizya is not tax or anything drawn from them by force...
Jiizya befits in my understanding is restoration/amendment ..oncw they produce /bringforth amendment on their own willingness...
No need to fight for money.. Lol... It is coz they don't respect the rules or system (Deen) under the governement which is established by pure Muslims do they have to accept basic rules.. If they willingly bringforth the amendment then leave them as they are... Whatever the meaning of the verse 929 Jizya is not tax or anything but amendment.. -
Salam bro,
Salam bro,
But hadith itself needs explanations. How can can it be its an explanation of the Quran, when sometimes itself needs explanation
Now if the hadith explains the Quran why do we have reports that people like Abu Bakr was burning the hadiths.
Secondly if as they claim that the Quran was put together in a book by uthman why he left out the hadiths which are suppose to be the explanation of the Quran.
We also know they are many verses and chapters that have no hadith explanation. Now who will explain those chapters.
Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt
Example
How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747
Narrated Rabia bin Abi Abdur-Rahman
I heard Anas bin Malik describing the Prophet saying, "He was of medium height amongst the people, neither tall nor short; he had a rosy color, neither absolutely white nor deep brown; his hair was neither completely curly nor quite lank. Divine Inspiration was revealed to him when he was forty years old. He stayed ten years in Mecca receiving the Divine Inspiration, and stayed in Medina for ten more years. When he expired, he had scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard." Rabi'a said, "I saw some of his hairs and it was red. When I asked about that, I was told that it turned red because of scent."
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 748
Narrated Anas
Allah's Apostle was neither very tall nor short, neither absolutely white nor deep brown. His hair was neither curly nor lank. Allah sent him (as an Apostle) when he was forty years old. Afterwards he resided in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten more years. When Allah took him unto Him, there was scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242
Narrated Ibn Abbas
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742
Narrated 'Aisha
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805
'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said Do you know counting? He said Yes. He then said Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Contradictions within Bukhari
How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 - He was 40+10+10=60 years old.Bukhari 558242 and 559742 – He was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet (pbuh) stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 – He stayed in Mecca for 10 years.Bukhari 558190 and 559741 – He stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
What about the hadith of suckling a ground up man and which is reported by Aisha
What about the hadith of Prophet Muhammad marrying aisha at the age of 9.
What is it that made Prophet Muhammad got attracted to a kid? Really!
What about the the hadith of doing a french kiss with his grandson hassan. If you can't believe in this hadith why would you believe In other hadiths narrated by these same people?
You will see hadith proponents trying to explain these hadiths. So in other words hadith in itself need an explanation.
May Allah guide as all
-
Salam bro,
Salam bro,
But hadith itself needs explanations. How can can it be its an explanation of the Quran, when sometimes itself needs explanation
Now if the hadith explains the Quran why do we have reports that people like Abu Bakr was burning the hadiths.
Secondly if as they claim that the Quran was put together in a book by uthman why he left out the hadiths which are suppose to be the explanation of the Quran.
We also know they are many verses and chapters that have no hadith explanation. Now who will explain those chapters.
Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt
Example
How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747
Narrated Rabia bin Abi Abdur-Rahman
I heard Anas bin Malik describing the Prophet saying, "He was of medium height amongst the people, neither tall nor short; he had a rosy color, neither absolutely white nor deep brown; his hair was neither completely curly nor quite lank. Divine Inspiration was revealed to him when he was forty years old. He stayed ten years in Mecca receiving the Divine Inspiration, and stayed in Medina for ten more years. When he expired, he had scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard." Rabi'a said, "I saw some of his hairs and it was red. When I asked about that, I was told that it turned red because of scent."
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 748
Narrated Anas
Allah's Apostle was neither very tall nor short, neither absolutely white nor deep brown. His hair was neither curly nor lank. Allah sent him (as an Apostle) when he was forty years old. Afterwards he resided in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten more years. When Allah took him unto Him, there was scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242
Narrated Ibn Abbas
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742
Narrated 'Aisha
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805
'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said Do you know counting? He said Yes. He then said Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Contradictions within Bukhari
How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 - He was 40+10+10=60 years old.Bukhari 558242 and 559742 – He was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet (pbuh) stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 – He stayed in Mecca for 10 years.Bukhari 558190 and 559741 – He stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
What about the hadith of suckling a ground up man and which is reported by Aisha
What about the hadith of Prophet Muhammad marrying aisha at the age of 9.
What is it that made Prophet Muhammad got attracted to a kid? Really!
What about the the hadith of doing a french kiss with his grandson hassan. If you can't believe in this hadith why would you believe In other hadiths narrated by these same people?
You will see hadith proponents trying to explain these hadiths. So in other words hadith in itself need an explanation.
May Allah guide as all
Salam everyone...
7942 They ask you, , about the Hour when is its arrival?
7943 About what you are to mention of it (The Hour)
Let's explore above verses practically... First of all "They ask you" ..it indicates they literally don't know anything about when such a horrible time occur.. That's why they asked the Messenger perhaps the messenger would be revealed any message... Coz they asked and God replied a lot.... Isn't it.. That's why we see so many places "They ask you" in Quran...
But God directly replied in black and white... "You (Mohamed) have nothing to mention about the Hour.. It means Zero knowledge is passed to him... But God has mentioned many a description /scenario of the Hour in Quran.. Not when..
But, when you read sahih Hadith from Bukhari, you will find many a prediction when it will be and on top of that its signs /descriptioms /scenarios which are not in Quran...I don't want to bring all those hadith here.. You can search in hadith websites ...
Just to enlighten..
One of the Hadiths says Prophet said "The Hour will fall on Friday"... But God says.. you have no knowledge about it / at our have nothing at all to mention about it.. ...
When God said NOTHING it means NOTHING /ZERO..
Now any one who learn Quran through hadith will definitely leave Quran verse aside and take hadith over it... That's what has happened... If you ask any conventional Muslim when the Hour Falls.. They will say on a Friday...This is what great scholars have left for us in the name of Prophet and they have authenticated also.. I know any verse in Quran can be twisted to taste in line with their hadith book.. Coz... Duping master SATAN'S support always with those who falter.. But intelligent believers cannot be hoodwinked.. What did Iblees say to Allah.. Yes.. I will hoodwink all of them.. Except little.. That's why we are called by them Quran Aloners... Though we are Muslims literally who practice only God's book..
May God guide who deserves guidance...
Thank you..
