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  4. Chapter Ar Rahman.... Fabiayyi Aalai Rabbikuma Thukazziban

Chapter Ar Rahman.... Fabiayyi Aalai Rabbikuma Thukazziban

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    jkhan
    wrote on last edited by
    #12

    Thanks.

    فَبِأَىِّ Prefixed conjunction فَ which is الفاء الفصيحة + Prepositional Phrase بـِ Inseparable preposition + Declinable interrogative pronoun always in a construct. Singular; genitive.

    Please also consider the verb Verb Imperfect; second person; dual; masculine ; ; Mood Indicative, evident by ; Subject Pronoun, nominative state; مصدر تَكْذِيْبٌ Verbal Noun.

    الفاء الفصيحة articulate, eloquent, fluent
    It can either relate to response to presumed/estimated condition since it is located only in eloquent speech. And secondly it conjuncts to an elided element whereby it adds fluency and reveals the elided element.

    A rhetorical question is a question used for dramatic effect, getting the point across, and is not intended to be answered by the audience the question was directed.

    The question will relate to the information given, the ءَالَآءِ described.
    Now you can select better words to translate it at various places. "which one of these -----of your Sustainer Lord you can publicly deny.

    تَكْذِيْبٌ is denying - contradicting something publicly.

    Thanks..

    Yes... Rhetorical questions not necessarily be answered.. I agree.. But why the rhetorical questions were raised should be perceived by the audience so that audience no need to answer since they perceived that rhetorical questions has a valid point..
    If the rhetorical question itself not clear then everything collapses..

    So as of now, I remain with this understanding for all the clauses (rhetoric questions) of chapter 55

    "So which of the executions of your Lord both of you belie"

    Thank you for assisting me in this regard voluntarily .. Yes.. possessions / power would suit but executions may not go away from the dictionary meaning as you emphasised as well meaning of the verse.
    Thank you brother.. But I know you prefer different meaning. It's Okay.. It's not a big deal here.. No violations of the verse..

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #13

      Thanks..

      Yes... Rhetorical questions not necessarily be answered.. I agree.. But why the rhetorical questions were raised should be perceived by the audience so that audience no need to answer since they perceived that rhetorical questions has a valid point..
      If the rhetorical question itself not clear then everything collapses..

      So as of now, I remain with this understanding for all the clauses (rhetoric questions) of chapter 55

      "So which of the executions of your Lord both of you belie"

      Thank you for assisting me in this regard voluntarily .. Yes.. possessions / power would suit but executions may not go away from the dictionary meaning as you emphasised as well meaning of the verse.
      Thank you brother.. But I know you prefer different meaning. It's Okay.. It's not a big deal here.. No violations of the verse..

      Surely, better one, since it could relate to the sense of previous statement. "you belie" be taken to future. The question is about their future conduct in public.

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      • T Offline
        T Offline
        TellMeTheTruth
        wrote on last edited by
        #14

        Salam Jkhan!

        Have to focus on the word تکذبن or تکذبان which means "you both are being belied". The shadda and kasra on letter ذ changes the meaning from you belied to you are/being belied. The word آلاء is not derived from علی nor from الی as most of the scholars suggest however, it is related with ھؤلآء (Reference Lane's Lexican p86 (of 3039)). It has nothing to do with bounties or favours. It belongs to things or matters or ayats of the Quran.

        ف = So/then
        ب = by/with
        ای = only
        ءآلاء = this/these
        تکذبٰن = you both are being belied

        So the literal translation is "Then by only this/these you both are being belied?".

        Peace!

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        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jkhan
          wrote on last edited by
          #15

          Salam Jkhan!

          Have to focus on the word تکذبن or تکذبان which means "you both are being belied". The shadda and kasra on letter ذ changes the meaning from you belied to you are/being belied. The word آلاء is not derived from علی nor from الی as most of the scholars suggest however, it is related with ھؤلآء (Reference Lane's Lexican p86 (of 3039)). It has nothing to do with bounties or favours. It belongs to things or matters or ayats of the Quran.

          ف = So/then
          ب = by/with
          ای = only
          ءآلاء = this/these
          تکذبٰن = you both are being belied

          So the literal translation is "Then by only this/these you both are being belied?".

          Peace!

          Peace.. TMTT..

          good to see you back..
          But did you check whether preceding verses would give any meaning if taken as 'then with only these you both are being belied'...... You have missed out Rabbikuma as well.
          Thank you..

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          • T Offline
            T Offline
            TellMeTheTruth
            wrote on last edited by
            #16

            Salam JKhan!

            Yes I missed ربکما because focus was on the meanings of ءالآء and تکذبٰن

            Yes, by putting these meanings in the whole surah, i come to know that these meanings fit perfectly.
            Since Allah is Truth/Reality, you cannot belie Him or His Ayat based on truth/reality but He and His Ayat can belie you (humans/jinns)

            Peace!

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            • J Offline
              J Offline
              jkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #17

              Salam JKhan!

              Yes I missed ربکما because focus was on the meanings of ءالآء and تکذبٰن

              Yes, by putting these meanings in the whole surah, i come to know that these meanings fit perfectly.
              Since Allah is Truth/Reality, you cannot belie Him or His Ayat based on truth/reality but He and His Ayat can belie you (humans/jinns)

              Peace!

              Thanks..

              If perfectly fit according to your understanding then no one is between you and your understanding.. Always keep some space so that Allah May guide us if we wronged or misunderstood... Self satisfaction without misguidance and stubbornness invest satisfaction in seeking knowledge... Keep up good works..
              Thank you..

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #18

                Peace.. TMTT..

                good to see you back..
                But did you check whether preceding verses would give any meaning if taken as 'then with only these you both are being belied'...... You have missed out Rabbikuma as well.
                Thank you..

                Is it not passive construction?

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                • T Offline
                  T Offline
                  TellMeTheTruth
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #19

                  Dear brother Mazhar!

                  You can translate it as "Then only this (ayah/truth) of your (dual) Lord belies you?"

                  Peace!

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #20

                    Dear brother Mazhar!

                    You can translate it as "Then only this (ayah/truth) of your (dual) Lord belies you?"

                    Peace!

                    It will be patently incorrect. The alif is the subject of verb, second person dual.

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                    • T Offline
                      T Offline
                      TellMeTheTruth
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #21

                      It will be patently incorrect. The alif is the subject of verb, second person dual.

                      Salam!

                      The word تکذبٰن is derived from the root word ک ذ ب, which means "to deny" or "to reject." The addition of the ت (ta) prefix transforms the verb into its passive form, suggesting being denied or rejected.

                      ف Then
                      ب with/by
                      ای only
                      ءاَلآء this
                      ربِ Lord of
                      کُما you both
                      تُ You are
                      کَذِٗب being denied/rejected/belied
                      ان The suffix اٰن (aan) at the end of تُكَذِّبان (tukadhdhibaan) is known as the "حالة عاطفة" (hālatu ʿāṭifah) or the "emphatic mood" in Arabic grammar. This suffix adds a sense of emphasis, intensity, or heightened emotion to the verb. In the specific context of فبای آلاء ربكما تكذبان (fabayi aalaa'i rabbikumaa tukadhdhibaan), the emphatic mood conveys a stronger emphasis on the denial or rejection being discussed. It intensifies the idea that both the parties are vehemently being denied/rejected/belied.

                      However, I am with a view that this suffix اٰن (aan) is added to the prefix تُ in order to make it a dual "you" as in اَلجَمعَان، یخصفان، تذودان، یسجُدان، طآیفتان because such words are always used when there are two nouns present in the ayah.

                      My Translation Then by only this (ayah/truth) of your Lord you both are being denied?

                      Peace!

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