Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
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I see its the story of a Man(possibly a vegetarian) who relocated to the dessert, he struggled and faced extreme hardships for survival, his consciousness and thought its God's will to sacrifice his son as the only option, God blessed him with a new way, with a goat surfaced and he sacrificed that.
Its a belief of Goodness ways. Many animals too kill their off-springs for survival.
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Salaam amin,
I see its the story of a Man(possibly a vegetarian) who relocated to the dessert, he struggled and faced extreme hardships for survival, his consciousness and thought its God's will to sacrifice his son as the only option, God blessed him with a new way, with a goat surfaced and he sacrificed that.
Its a belief of Goodness ways. Many animals too kill their off-springs for survival.
never heard such story before. But I do believe, we are forbidden to kill other people except for the reasons explained in the book.
The stories in the Quran are told so that we can take lessons. However, we must be flexible enough to understand the context.
In the case of the murder of a child in the story of the prophet Musa, Prophet Musa reacted exactly according to God's law that he understood, that killing is permissible only to avenge another soul.
But the Quran certainly has deviations for very good reasons. for example,
- When Ibrahim lied about who broke the idols of his people (he lied for good reason)
- When Ibrahim cut four birds into pieces just to satisfy his curiosity how Allah brings the dead back to life, (the birds were not really dead)
- When the fire grew cold when it burned Ibrahim. This is "against God's law" regarding the nature of fire
- When Musa walked in the middle of the sea, so he and his people were safe but not with Pharaoh and his army. This "violates God's law" regarding the nature of water
- and various other examples
does this make God inconsistent with his laws?
Of course not, because these all have good reasons. We can't dictate to God what he can and can't do. Don't be god to God ;D
Even though Prophet Ibrahim was ordered to kill his son, his son did not really die
The child who was killed in the case of Musa, did not violate God's law, because God knew that he would coerce and suppress his parents, a reason where we are allowed to fight and kill.
That is why I wrote earlier about the importance of prioritizing God's revelation over our conscience.
Today very often Quran verses are translated according to human ethical standards.
For example,
Human ethics dictates that a man may not beat a woman, so the Quran must comply with this rule.I think it's fine, as long as there is no tendency to feel embarrassed seeing that the Quran does not comply with man-made ethical standards.
Peace..
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peace all,
amin,
We can all have different views, that is fine, but my article specifically has questions people can run their understanding through. Unfortunately very few people do and simply continue on their merry way.
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Abraham-Sacrifice-Questions.html
For example you can see this post for what happened when jkhan attempted to answer those Qs.tlihawa,
The Abraham four birds story has been discussed on here before, e.g. here. as well as Moses water split story (tsunami, wind set down). Each can have "natural laws" explanations.Background
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15458.0
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604966.msg320062#msg320062
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597934.msg194774#msg194774 -
Salaam Wakas,
peace all,
amin,
We can all have different views, that is fine, but my article specifically has questions people can run their understanding through. Unfortunately very few people do and simply continue on their merry way.
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Abraham-Sacrifice-Questions.html
For example you can see this post for what happened when jkhan attempted to answer those Qs.tlihawa,
The Abraham four birds story has been discussed on here before, e.g. here. as well as Moses water split story (tsunami, wind set down). Each can have "natural laws" explanations.Background
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15458.0
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604966.msg320062#msg320062
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597934.msg194774#msg194774Thanks for the links given. Perhaps the last one was misquoted?
But it's okay. I have been here for years and I've seen various opinions about this "law of nature".
And as you can see for yourself in the thread you provided, your view of 2260 has been rebutted by several people. This is not because of you or them have bad logic, but because everyone has their own scenario or context in their heads.
Just as you construct a number of questions about Ibrahim and his son with the intention of helping others draw conclusions, but basically the questions you ask cannot be separated from the context that you have built and believed in before. And it can be irrelevant to other with different context and different way of thinking.
Everyone has their own context that is built in their head which greatly influences how they translate a verse.
If you believe that Allah will not make deviations in His laws even with good reasons, then you will try to explain all the "miracles" into "natural law", and all the "evil command by God" to something else.. And I think there's a lot of homework needs to be done (ie. Creation of Adam, Musa's white hand, creation of Isa, etc)
That is why, we cannot expect that the same methodology will produce the same conclusion.
When you have built a certain context in your head, all related verses will certainly be translated to support that context.
In addressing differences of opinion, I prefer to find out the context in which a person bases himself, to see why he comes to that conclusion, and to understand why it's different with mine. And I don't immediately judge that his logic is bad, we just differ in the context we use. Logic only works to support that context.
Don't be disappointed if people disagree with you, we just differ in understanding the context that underlies our way of thinking. This is not a right or wrong area, this is just an agree or disagree area.
Btw, I saw the progress of studyquran.co.uk stuck at 93%? What's going on? Really admire your works. It helps me a lot. Thank you.
Peace
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peace tlihawa,
I appreciate the way you framed your response.
No, that last link was correct, it cites 2260 in it, and the use of logic / critical thinking in general.
Yes people attempted rebuttal of my interpretation of 2260. Pay careful attention to how many actually answered the questions I asked. Similar to this thread.
And lastly I do not deny "miracles". All I am pointing out is there may be a "natural law" explanation for some (all?).
Project Root List is effectively complete but the grammar info could have more detail here and there and the grammar info has not been fully checked over. Originally we were waiting on the developer Kais of corpus.quran.com to update their site but he has left the project for other pursuits. Eric Atwell of the University of Leeds said they would update the project but it hasn't happened yet. If you use it regular I recommend downloading PRL as you never know when it may become unavailable.
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Salam!
There is another question. Ibrahim was going to take life of his son and it is called "Sacrifice" while his son gave "his own life" - what it should be called? Is taking life of others is "Sacrifice" or giving one's own life to others is "Sacrifice"?
Peace!
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Salam!
There is another question. Ibrahim was going to take life of his son and it is called "Sacrifice" while his son was going to gave "his own life" - what it should be called? Is taking life of others is "Sacrifice" or giving one's own life to others is "Sacrifice"?
Peace!
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Salam!
In addition to the meanings of slaughtering, sacrificing, and splitting, the root "ذ ب ح" (dha-ba-ha) has a few more nuanced meanings. Here are a couple of them
ذَبِيحَةٌ (dhabiha) Besides referring to a slaughtered animal or a sacrifice, it can also denote something dedicated or offered for the sake of a higher purpose or devotion. It can encompass the concept of dedication or consecration beyond literal slaughtering.
تَذْبِيحَةٌ (tadbiha) This derived noun can signify the act of offering or dedicating oneself or something of value in service to a cause, principle, or belief. It implies a willingness to sacrifice or dedicate oneself for a greater purpose.
If we incorporate the meaning of dedication or offering into the interpretation of the ayah then, with the added meaning, a possible literal interpretation of the verses could be
"وَقَالَ إِنِّي ذَاهِبٌ إِلَىٰ رَبِّي سَيَهْدِينِ"
And he said "Indeed, I am going to my Lord who will guide me soon.""رَبِّ هَبْ لِي مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ"
"O my Lord! Grant me from the righteous ones!""فَبَشَّرْنَاهُ بِغُلَامٍ حَلِيمٍ"
So We gave him good tidings of a forbearing boy."فَلَمَّا بَلَغَ مَعَهُ السَّعْيَ قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِّي أَذْبَحُكَ فَانظُرْ مَاذَا تَرَىٰ"
And when he (the boy) reached the age of exertion, he (Ibrahim) said "O my son! Indeed I have seen in a dream that I am dedicating you (to Lord). So consider (the matter and let know) what do you think?""قَالَ يَا أَبَتِ افْعَلْ مَا تُؤْمَرُ ۖ سَتَجِدُنِي إِن شَاءَ اللَّهُ مِنَ الصَّابِرِينَ"
He said "O my father! Do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, among the patient ones.""فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ"
So when they had both submitted and he (Ibrahim) raised with dignity,"وَنَادَيْنَاهُ أَن يَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ"
And We called out to him that "O Ibrahim!""قَدْ صَدَّقْتَ الرُّؤْيَا ۚ إِنَّا كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ"
"You have already verified the vision. Indeed, like yourself, We reward the good-doers.""إِنَّ هَٰذَا لَهُوَ الْبَلَاءُ الْمُبِينُ"
Indeed, this is the clear evaluation (test of abilities, traits etc. of someone)."وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيمٍ"
And We redeemed him with (this) great dedication."وَتَرَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ فِي الْآخِرِينَ"
And We left his euology - in the later generations (to say) "سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ"
"Peace be upon Ibrahim!""كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ"
Like yourself, We reward the good-doers."إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ"
Indeed, he was among Our believing servants.This interpretation incorporates the concept of dedication or offering as a possible meaning for the verb "أَذْبَحُكَ" (adhbahuka) in the context of the dream and the father's vision. It suggests that the father saw a dream or vision in which he perceived himself dedicating or offering his son for a higher purpose. The son, in response, expresses his willingness to comply with the command and offers his dedication and patience.
It is worth noting that child sacrifice to gods/idols was a well-known practice at the time of Ibrahim, which was obviously considered as an evil practice. Note some examples for the practice of child sacrifice in ancient civilizations such as the Canaanites, Carthaginians, and certain groups within Mesopotamia.
For instance, in ancient Canaanite religious practices, particularly associated with the worship of the deity Baal, child sacrifice was believed to be a way to appease or gain favor from the gods. It involved offering one's own children, often the first-born, as a sacrificial act.
The Carthaginians, an ancient civilization in North Africa, were also known to have engaged in child sacrifice. They worshipped the god Baal Hammon and would sacrifice infants or young children as part of their religious rituals.
In ancient Mesopotamia, there is evidence of similar practices, particularly in relation to the worship of certain deities such as the god Molech. Child sacrifice was viewed as a way to seek divine blessings or protection.
I believe that Ibrahim was well-aware of these prohibited and immoral practices so he could not have believed in a dream commanding him to sacrifice his own child. God does not command or endorse evil deeds. The Quran clearly states that God is free from any imperfection or inconsistency in His commands.
ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ وَسَلَٰمٌ عَلَىٰ عِبَادِهِ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱصْطَفَىٰٓ
Peace!
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TellMeTheTruth quote
"فَلَمَّا بَلَغَ مَعَهُ السَّعْيَ قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِّي أَذْبَحُكَ فَانظُرْ مَاذَا تَرَىٰ"
And when he (the boy) reached the age of exertion, he (Ibrahim) said "O my son! Indeed I have seen in a dream that I am dedicating you (to Lord). So consider (the matter and let know) what do you think?""قَالَ يَا أَبَتِ افْعَلْ مَا تُؤْمَرُ ۖ سَتَجِدُنِي إِن شَاءَ اللَّهُ مِنَ الصَّابِرِينَ"
He said "O my father! Do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, among the patient ones.""فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ"
So when they had both submitted and he (Ibrahim) raised with dignity,"وَنَادَيْنَاهُ أَن يَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ"
And We called out to him that "O Ibrahim!""قَدْ صَدَّقْتَ الرُّؤْيَا ۚ إِنَّا كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ"
"You have already verified the vision. Indeed, like yourself, We reward the good-doers."..............................................
Some points for considerationإِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ
Indeed I have seen in a dream
Both texts are not equivalent. Imperfect verb ---
Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice (you take dedicating) his son. -
TellMeTheTruth quote
"فَلَمَّا بَلَغَ مَعَهُ السَّعْيَ قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِّي أَذْبَحُكَ فَانظُرْ مَاذَا تَرَىٰ"
And when he (the boy) reached the age of exertion, he (Ibrahim) said "O my son! Indeed I have seen in a dream that I am dedicating you (to Lord). So consider (the matter and let know) what do you think?""قَالَ يَا أَبَتِ افْعَلْ مَا تُؤْمَرُ ۖ سَتَجِدُنِي إِن شَاءَ اللَّهُ مِنَ الصَّابِرِينَ"
He said "O my father! Do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, among the patient ones.""فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ"
So when they had both submitted and he (Ibrahim) raised with dignity,"وَنَادَيْنَاهُ أَن يَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ"
And We called out to him that "O Ibrahim!""قَدْ صَدَّقْتَ الرُّؤْيَا ۚ إِنَّا كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ"
"You have already verified the vision. Indeed, like yourself, We reward the good-doers."..............................................
Some points for considerationإِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ
Indeed I have seen in a dream
Both texts are not equivalent. Imperfect verb ---
Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice (you take dedicating) his son.Dear brother Mazhar!
Please refer to below
In addition to the meanings of slaughtering, sacrificing, and splitting, the root "ذ ب ح" (dha-ba-ha) has a few more nuanced meanings. Here are a couple of them
ذَبِيحَةٌ (dhabiha) Besides referring to a slaughtered animal or a sacrifice, it can also denote something dedicated or offered for the sake of a higher purpose or devotion. It can encompass the concept of dedication or consecration beyond literal slaughtering.
تَذْبِيحَةٌ (tadbiha) This derived noun can signify the act of offering or dedicating oneself or something of value in service to a cause, principle, or belief. It implies a willingness to sacrifice or dedicate oneself for a greater purpose.
If we incorporate the meaning of dedication or offering into the interpretation of the ayah then, with the added meaning, a possible literal interpretation of the verses could be
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Dear brother Mazhar!
Please refer to below
For the time being we see the first part.
If first is understood wrongly, all will be wrong.
إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ
Indeed I have seen in a dream
Both texts are not equivalent. Imperfect verb ---
Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice (you take dedicating) his son.Which one is correct? Past or imperfect, indicative mood.
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Even how hard one attempts to change the actual incident which took place into something else it won't change especially with God's words..
Simply Ibrahim did see dreams and it was hovering him.. No parting took place and no dedication of his son took place... Why to dedicate his young son while Ibrahim himself is not clear much about what to do in life while bayt (system) founded when Ismail was big and even the foundation of the system was raised together Ibrahim and Ismail. Dedicate and part him to go where??? All started with Ibrahim.. For dedication no need dreams.. Like the wife of Imran vowed, anyone can dedicate out of desire... But dedicating another person by another is never a way and never commanded.. God chooses prophets and messengers so they themselves dedicate... Others they can themselves dedicate for preaching God's system like you and me.. Anyway every Muslim has to dedicate their lives to pass the message of Allah.. There is no special dedication a human can select another human as if he is saint..
Be it physical human sacrifice or physical /spiritual dedication all mere myths of anceints..every believer are to dedicate.. Yes you may wish as a person that my son become a prophet or messenger if you were living in ancient time.. But you can't decide and dedicate coz Allah chooses. Allah won't repeat His command in multiple dreams to Ibrahim or anyone just making life horrible .. Only once more than enough like Allah did to Yousuf... satan only hovers with horrible dreams repetitively...Simply Ibrahim was duped by Satan to great extent and God was so generous and merciful to interfere and save from a tremendous disaster...
Ibrahim was different and unique... If you see his traits he was beyond truthful and utmost honest and incredibly affectionate and loved God without a spec of doubt.. That's sometimes made him to react selflessly... For example.. Demolishing all those idols was in fact wrong and God doesn't want such things even from Ibrahim or anyone.. But ibrahim loved them and he wanted them to be believers but it won't happen in that way.. He didn't break them coz he hated them but hoping they would realize and become believers .. But he never thought of himself but ended in firebed but God was generous and merciful to this special person and delivered him.. God knows what Ibrahim did was wrong ethically.. It is not the way to preach the system..
He wanted to show and prove his real faith to his Lord is absolutely obeying Him.. So he believed the dream thinking it was from God while forgot that it is not the way God reveal His command..
He doesn't like anything bad to anyone... Even he interfered when God wanted to destroy Lut's nation... He was incredible.. It seems even he forgot befire making decisions his knowledge coz of the fear of God and faith of God... That's why he made few blunders in life... That's why God immediately helped him coz God knew Ibrahim's heart..There is no point of defending Ibrahim and his action while he in fact was deceived by Satan..
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Dear Jkhan!
What do you call those who obey the satan/devil due to his deception? Answer in one word, please!
Peace!
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For the time being we see the first part.
If first is understood wrongly, all will be wrong.
إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ
Indeed I have seen in a dream
Both texts are not equivalent. Imperfect verb ---
Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice (you take dedicating) his son.Which one is correct? Past or imperfect, indicative mood.
Dear Mazhar!
The phrase إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ (inni ara fi al-manaam) literally translates to "Indeed, I see in a dream." The verb أَرَىٰ (ara) is in the present tense, indicating a current or ongoing action. In this context, it implies that the father (Ibrahim) is currently seeing the same dream or having repeated occurrences of the same dream. So, grammatically, the interpretation of the father repetitively watching the same dream is possible.
However, the main point to consider is the meaning of اذبحک.
Peace!
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Dear Jkhan!
What do you call those who obey the satan/devil due to his deception? Answer in one word, please!
Peace!
Since you ask me to explan in one word, it is DECEIVED ..
....
You are desperate without proof..
Life time deception and getting deceived on certain matter is different.. Every prophet went through this deception.. But they realize. We get realize after being deceived... Adam got deceived and realized... SATAN can dupe anyone but they won't remain deceived... Coz believers choose God though SATAN is hovering with them.. Satans ultimate goal is not to deceive only one matter but deceive life time and send him astray and die astray.. For that he works. God doesn't punish a person for just one action...My one word answer is on top.. Lol.
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Dear Mazhar!
The phrase إِنِّي أَرَىٰ فِي الْمَنَامِ (inni ara fi al-manaam) literally translates to "Indeed, I see in a dream." The verb أَرَىٰ (ara) is in the present tense, indicating a current or ongoing action. In this context, it implies that the father (Ibrahim) is currently seeing the same dream or having repeated occurrences of the same dream. So, grammatically, the interpretation of the father repetitively watching the same dream is possible.
However, the main point to consider is the meaning of اذبحک.
Peace!
@Mazhar & TMTT
Yes.. The word is not perfect verb.. But he has seen for sure at least once.. You can refer the verses in chapter 12 King's vision and prisoners vision they all imperfect verb.. But it doesn't mean they never saw.. They have seen that's why they say about what they visioned.. But in Ibrahim's case also same imoerfect verb but Ibrahim used Manami as well... If you both take Ruya and mana as same then it is Okay... It could be even one time seem and they but they may say I see... Coz it may bother them or may make them curious.. Here satan can play a role.. Either take the what you saw directly without interpretations or wait until God clarify what in fact you visioned.. I don't think satan has the capacity to show visions in literal dreams while in sleep or in any other possible manner..
Thank you..
Note.. I forgot to mention.. We can't make the dream/vision come true but Allah only makes the dreams come true.. He only shows and He only make it became true if it meant to be a real dream.. But Ibrahim made himself.. And he made it become true and that too literally... No way... Just explore all visions in Quran.. Allah makes it come true and not the one who sees it..
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Brother Jkhan!
In the Quran, the phrase "قَلْبٍ سَلِيمٍ" (qalbin salim) is used to describe Ibrahim (Abraham) in several verses (Quran 3784, 3789, 3791). It is translated as "a sound heart" or "a pure heart."
The term "قَلْبٍ" (qalb) refers to the heart, not only in its physical sense but also symbolically as the center of emotions, thoughts, and intentions. It represents the innermost core of a person's being.
The word "سَلِيمٍ" (salim) means sound, healthy, intact, or pure. When used to describe a person's heart, it indicates a heart that is free from impurities, doubts, and negative traits. It signifies a heart that is sincere, upright, and in a state of purity and righteousness.
In the context of Ibrahim, having a "قَلْبٍ سَلِيمٍ" (qalbin salim) suggests that he had a pure and sound heart, free from any form of idolatry, falsehood, or wavering in his belief in God. It highlights his unwavering faith, sincerity, and devotion to Allah. Ibrahim's character and actions were guided by a righteous and upright heart, which is regarded as a praiseworthy quality in Islam.
So, in my view, Ibrahim was never deceived by the devil!
Peace!
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Brother Jkhan!
So, in my view, Ibrahim was never deceived by the devil!
Peace!
Peace...
Let it be your view... It won't make any sense in the broader sense when Allah has explained His Quran. . No human is perfect... Everyone is fallible... Everyone must beg for forgiveness while living..
Did Allah tell Ibrahim to sacrifice /dedixate his son in any command which is manifest? No..Did Allah command Ibrahim to demolish all those idols which they were devoted to? No...
Needless... Let them follow and increase their evil... But Ibrahim did himself.. Ibrahim was human and Allah is not and He knows what He does ..just coz Ibrahim is so affectionate, God won't listen to him but God does what He plans... -
We can't make the dream/vision come true but Allah only makes the dreams come true.. He only shows and He only make it became true if it meant to be a real dream.. But Ibrahim made himself.. And he made it become true and that too literally... No way... Just explore all visions in Quran.. Allah makes it come true and not the one who sees it..
12100 " .... .... O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality. .......... .... "
When one sees a dream and if he feels it is meaningful, then he has to wait perhaps years to realize what the dream was.. Not all dreams we worry, certqin dreams sticks with our mind and sometimes bother and some times curious to know what it could be... So if God will those dreams can become reality / true in different way not in its exact manner...
That's obvious... But Ibrahim made the dream himself assured / confirmed / made real (sadaqa).. Satan deluded him.. But God interfered immediately ...
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Brother Jkhan!
In case of deception of devil, the account must have mentioned that and the reaction of Ibrahim as well, which unfortunately is not present. Even the righteous son (future prophet) did not objected his father's act. So your baseless assumptions are avoidable.
Peace!
