'S J D ' with clarity - indeed not Prostration
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731
"O children of Adam, take your splendours /magnificence at every Sanctuary (Masjid), and eat and drink, but be not excessive. Indeed, He likes not those who commit excess."
Closely look at the above verse... Allah Addressed "O children of Adam" so regardless of faith.. The only place all are welcome is Allah's SANCTUARIES where God's name glorified / remembered / reflected a lot. A Sanctuary formed /founded "in acknowledgement of / in honor of true purpose... And normally in sanctuaries things are in abundance...
That's why God confirms that SANCTUARIES belong to Him..
7218
And that the SANCTUARIES (Masaajids) are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone.
"Sanctuaries founded for good intent is always a place belong to Allah, so in such sanctuaries as believers never invoke or associate with Allah... Cuz as a believer once you are in a SANCTUARY you are in a state of acknowledgement / honor cuz SANCTUARY itself was found in honor of / in acknowledgement of good purpose.. .. It's not a place for evil...
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729
Say, "My Lord has commanded with justice and that you be firm in your expressions / countenances in the presence of every (Masjid) SANCTUARY (ie under state of acknowledgement), and invoke Him, sincerely to Him of the direction (Deen)."When you are in a God's Sanctuary yiu are bound to be evil free not only in your actions visible or spiritually...
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Now allow me to explain what "Al Masjid AL Haram " means... If you have read my old topic Haj verses with clarity you would have known already...
AL Masjid AL Haram = The Sanctuary the Sanctioned / Forbidden " . Here AL masjid is not formed in vain but "in a state of acknowledgement " which is pure purpose to hold the Haj (Debate).. As I explained in my earlier threads Sanctuaries won't get founded without specific purpose.. AL Masjid AL Haram was indeed founded in honor or in acknowledgement of Haj where it takes place.. If I present an analogy it will be like.. Olympics = Haj, and Destination Olympics takes place is equal Sanctuary (Masjid)..
I presebt one Quran verse where AL masjid AL haram apears..
2191" ..... .... And do not fight them in the presence of The Sanctuary The Forbidden (al-Masjid al- Haram) until they fight you there. In case if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
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2138-41
38 Indeed, Allah delivers / defends those who have believed. Verily, Allah does not like every treacherous and denying.
39 Permitted to those who are being fought, as they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is powerful to give them victory.
40 Those who have been evicted from their living places devoid of just save that they say, "Our Lord is Allah." And if it not that Allah checks / delivers / defends the people, some by means of others, ruined would have been Disciplines / Controls (Sawwami), and Dealings (Bee'u), and Commitments / Bonds (Salawat) and Sanctuaries (MASAJID) in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely help those who help Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Mighty.
41 Those who, if We give them authority in the land, establish the Integrity (sala) and bringforth the purity (zakah) and enjoin with good and refrain from bad And to Allah belongs the end of matter.
My dear fellow believers Salam..
I brought four verses though only one verse is refering SJD. Yes I have a reason to bring all four of them to give you the best clarity since all four verses connected.. Carefully read how it is connected..
Remember every ethnic group has had SANCTUARIES those days... Sanctuaries were part and parcel of those people..
Now what exactly these verses bring to light.. Allah's intent is very manifest He will defend BELIEVERS always.. But there is always threats and challenges from Deniers.. But Allah choses a group of people to give help to believers.. Sanctuaries are focal point of life to those people and is enriched. But these Deniers wanttd to tear them apart with their evil actions so that fundamental Disciplines, Commitments and Bonds collapse so Sanctuaries' purity get ruined..
Note the last verse 2241 Allah confirms. But if the authority is in the hands of good believers, they won't act in this ruining manner.. They will indeed take every action to "establish integrity and thus bring forth purity to the land and that's the basic of basics rulers should do.. Not only that they would implement with what is good and refrain bad... So that Desciplines , Dealings, Commitments and Sanctuaries would remain in tact.. And people will remain free and safe..
Perfect sense for me.. -
Another familiar and regularly discussed SJD verse as under for your perusal..
2187
2187 Permitted for you nights of the Siyam (Self-discipline / Abstinence / contemplation / meditation) the sex to your wives. They (wives) are fortification for you (husbands), and you (husbands) fortification for them (wives). Allah knows that you used to be treacherous / betraying amongst yourselves (wife and husband), so turned towards you pardoned / forsake you (husband and wife), so now rejoice with them (wives) and desire what God has destined/assigned for you and eat and drink until manifest the brighter shade from darker shade of the dawn. Then fulfill the Siyam (look above) to the night. Never rejoice (thubashiruhunna) with them (wives) while you are devoted / committed (Aqifun) in the SANCTUARIES (MASAJID). This is limits of the God, so never near them (wives). Like thus makes clear the God His verses to the people in order to be conscious.
Here any SANCTUARIES of Allah.. Allah's sanctuaries are founded in honor or in acknowledgement of and just cuz it is huge and open space it doesnt mean one can behave within it as he wants..
Allah strictly commands not to near during the night of Siyam the wives even it is allowed while in the Sanctuaries (Masajid).. Imagine if it is Masjed a building where the main purpose is to pray conventionally five times a day, why would Allah command not to approach wives.. Don't they have common sense? Not in any religious conventional worshiping place regardless of their faith they have sex there.. So it is not what Allah meant by Masajid but it is SANCTUARIES.. For example The sanctuary the Forbidden (AL Masjid AL Haram) it's not a building it is a huge land area which specifically assigned for hosting Haj and if one is inside these boundaries NO SEX.. cuz the sanctuary is founded in honor /acknowledgement of pure purpose... So once you are in it "state of acknowledgement " applies to you..It's up to you to reflect.. I can't convince.. I can only share knowledge..
Salam..
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peace,
Your research has similarities to mine, although I expect your understanding of "masjid" and "al masjid al haram" to be different
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-quran.html
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.htmlConclusion of parts 1, 2, 3
The Quranic evidence weighs the evidence in favour of SJD meaning "to submit/honour/pay respect", "masjid" meaning "time of SJD", "al masjid al haram" meaning "the inviolable time of SJD" (i.e. the term referring to the time-period/event of the inviolable months), wherein "al hajj" is held. This understanding provides a logical, coherent and practical answer throughout, and helps answer some of the most difficult questions in Quran exegesis (e.g. 171-8, 1760, 4827, 2142-150).The useful thing in my article is I highlight the verses that could cause issues for the various understandings. I don't know if you address these in your research.
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https//i.postimg.cc/7Yq7BJbN/IMG-20240206-081156.jpg
Some are convinced that SJD is physically prostrating to Allah like shown in the picture and bringing the verse which is states that HudHuda found those people prostrating to the SUN... Did hudhuda indeed find them Physicaly prostrating to the sun like picture depicts ?.. In fact impossible ... No sun worshiping community in the past or now physically prostrate like the picture depicts... Sunworshipers have many of their own rituals and it differs region to region.. To show homage to the sun they practice them..for example sacrifices of animals or even human .. Chanting.. Immersing in sacred waters... Various bodily postures..
So my question is how hudhud found them Physically prostrating alone while they have various rituals...? Indeed HudHuda found them ACKNOWLEDGING /HONORING the Sun thus accepted the sun as god instead of Allah... That's what HudHuda found...
Bring me any anceint tradition where they physically prostrate to the sun as in picture here.. No one prostrates to the sun like that... -
Salam...
I know almost all conventional Muslims and even most of those who take Quran alone do physically prostrate .... So pls raise your objections to this understanding of mine.. Perhaps we can have better grip of these verses.. Constructive criticism helps a lot look for absolute truth..
So those who don't have the similar understanding pls cast your valid point... Let's seek guidance...Salam..
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My concerns regarding SJD / physical prostration when it comes to conventional way...
1...Why SJD is physically prostrated directing ones body only towards Kaaba in Mecca ?
2.. While everything on Heavens and Earth SJD to Allah willingly or unwillingly...
3 ... Kaaba was raised at certain point of time in history, but everything SJD to Allah from the beginning void of Kaaba...
4... If everything SJD to Allah so do I and so even evil men and Jin literally everything... But I don't SJD directing my body to Kaaba in Mecca.. So what SJD I do according Allah since He manifestly claims everything SJD to Allah... How can one say I don't SJD to Allah just cuz I don't physically prostrate towards Mecca while Allah claims everything SJD ?
5... If SJD means physical Prostration to Allah Alone then why would Malika were commanded to SJD to our father Adam and to depict and bringforth what by doing SJD / physical prostration to a human? So it clearly indicates SJD is not merely done to Allah cuz SJD done to Adam..
6...So.. SJD can be performed to Allah and even Adam upon command but SJD to the Sun or Moon is restricted?
It clearly indicates that this SJD obviosly has intent why one does SJD...
7... if everything SJD to Allah, why would Iblees refuse to SJD to Adam while iblees SJD to Allah.. Indeed Iblees SJD to Allah since everything SJD to Allah.. But clear refusal to SJD to Adam.. So logically ponder, If SJD is physically prostrating then Iblees not refusing to physically prostrate to Allah but refused to physically prostrate to Adam... Is that the reality?
That's not the truth... Reality is word SJD is manipulated by a religion called Islam founded by later generation after Mohamed..
Let's apply SJD / acknowledge (honor) to all above concerns.. Indeed SJD means acknowledgement and it is just a word and had nothing specific.. You can use to any sort of acknowledgement...
Malika were commanded to acknowledge to Adam... But refused Iblees while Iblees acknowledge Allah but a specific command from Allah was refused.. The Sun and Moon are creations of Allah you can acknowledge but you can't acknowledge the sun and moon as Deities with intent.. Malika didn't acknowledge Adam as deity but Malika acknowledged the remarkable and an elite Creation (Human) of Allah .. Not refused..
Everything acknowledges Allah cuz everything uses Allah's magnificence.. That's why Allah used willingly or unwillingly... They don't directly acknowledge but they do but believers and rest of Allah's creatures directly and willingly acknowledge /honor.. Not everything physically prostrate.. Nonsensical...
SJD every thing does but SABIH (glorify) Allah cannot be done by everything but by those who indeed fear can and would willingly but we have no capacity to understand them..1744
"The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt(SABIH) Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts by His Majesty, but you do not understand their exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving"
Well.. Similarly everything SURRENDER (ASLAMA) to Allah..
383"So is it other than the Direction (Deen) of Allah they desire, while to Him have Surrendered / submitted (ASLAMA) those within the heavens and earth, willingly or by compulsion, and to Him they will be returned?"
All in all we all involved in SJD (Acknowledging) and ASLAM (surrender /submit) and Exalting (Sabih) the Majesty of Allah but who is willingly with intent doing is what matters.. Cuz no one can escape from SJD, ASLAM and SABIH.. Everything does cuz we use God's earth and heavens and naturally we do... But most on earth don't do these three aspects willingly...
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Salam...
Still I am insisting with Quran verses in order that QURAN verses may give you perfect meaning... I already explained these two verses but would like to bring both together to reflect...BELIEVERS "when the Quran is recited to them they SJD"
DISBELIEVERS "when the Quran is recited to them they don't SJD"
So, what makes you think and decide that SJD = physical prostration....? Foes that really make sense for you... Remember folks these are actual statements from Allah... BELIEVER SJD and DISBELIEVER doeant SJD.. when? Yes when Quran is recited to them... Reflect people and raise your objections pr support what you do buy with Quran... Let Quran prevail.. And not our views..
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Salam...
Still I am insisting with Quran verses in order that QURAN verses may give you perfect meaning... I already explained these two verses but would like to bring both together to reflect...BELIEVERS "when the Quran is recited to them they SJD"
DISBELIEVERS "when the Quran is recited to them they don't SJD"
So, what makes you think and decide that SJD = physical prostration....? Does that really make sense for you... Remember folks these are actual statements from Allah... BELIEVER SJD and DISBELIEVER doeant SJD.. when? Yes when Quran is recited to them... Reflect people and raise your objections pr support what you do buy with Quran... Let Quran prevail.. And not our views..
Salam...
So... What exactly BELIEVERS SJD and DISBELIEVERS not SJD when Quran is recited?
Well.. Absolute truth is when the Quran is RECITED BELIEVERS reflect and they realize and they not deny the verses of Allah and eventually they ACKNOWLEDGE /SJD...
on the other hand, when the Quran verses are recited to or heard or read by DISBELIVERS they deny it some after knowing it is truth and others neglect outright thus refusing to ACKNOWLEDGE /SJD out of their arrogance and ignorance too..Who wants any DISBELIEVER to physically prostrate when Quran is recited to them regardless of language proficiency... Suppose if Quran is recited it arabic to a disbeliever whose language is other than Arabic, do you want them to physically prostrate for jist hearing the sound? Nope.. Allah never meant such stupid claims by His verses..
All Allah meant for Arabs and those who knew arabic of those days when Quran was read to listen and reflect so that they can acknowledge the truth.... That's what BELIEVERS did for that matter...
But what's happening now with all Sunni or shia or any group of Muslims... Yes.. They don't ACKNOWLEDGE / SJD when Quran is recited to them... All they say is not enough and we have to look in Hadith books for further clarifications...they don't SJD hearing the verses of Allah.. But they definitely SJD Physically not hearing the recital of Quran but according to Hadith... Cuz this physical prostration is indeed an invention by those who invented this religion called Islam.. How can Islam be a religion while no one in the past took Islam as religion while Messengers came with Islam / System or mechanism only... Cuz it was never a religion.. Bht this new group made it a religion and their own religion too..I have presented my comprehensive understanding and I can't convince anyone and I don't want to. But ponder within Quran. .
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Peace jkhan.
Just like "Salat", "The Salat" and "Aquimi Salat" have different meanings, "SJD" and "Khara SJD" also have different meanings according to the context of the verses.
Some I agree with your take on them and others I disagree.
Here is one example with context that I disagree with you onProclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, Sujada.
قُل ءامِنوا بِهِ أَو لا تُؤمِنوا إِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا العِلمَ مِن قَبلِهِ إِذا يُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم يَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ سُجَّدًا
They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."
وَيَقولونَ سُبحٰنَ رَبِّنا إِن كانَ وَعدُ رَبِّنا لَمَفعولًا
They fall down on their chins, weeping, for it augments their reverence.
وَيَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ يَبكونَ وَيَزيدُهُم خُشوعًاWhen they fall Sujada they say...etc and weep in reverence. This is something physical - prostration-.
Qoran is there to ponder individually and for each to get their own interpretation, it is not necessary for you and me and others to agree on one translation .
It does not matter who agrees with who, it matters that each seek a sincere submission to the creator for guidance ,then it is a journey. May be we can all meet some agreements on the way there.
What is wrong with physical prostration out of reverence as a mean of connection to the creator ?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
Just like "Salat", "The Salat" and "Aquimi Salat" have different meanings, "SJD" and "Khara SJD" also have different meanings according to the context of the verses.
Some I agree with your take on them and others I disagree.
Here is one example with context that I disagree with you onProclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, Sujada.
قُل ءامِنوا بِهِ أَو لا تُؤمِنوا إِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا العِلمَ مِن قَبلِهِ إِذا يُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم يَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ سُجَّدًا
They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."
وَيَقولونَ سُبحٰنَ رَبِّنا إِن كانَ وَعدُ رَبِّنا لَمَفعولًا
They fall down on their chins, weeping, for it augments their reverence.
وَيَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ يَبكونَ وَيَزيدُهُم خُشوعًاWhen they fall Sujada they say...etc and weep in reverence. This is something physical - prostration-.
Qoran is there to ponder individually and for each to get their own interpretation, it is not necessary for you and me and others to agree on one translation .
It does not matter who agrees with who, it matters that each seek a sincere submission to the creator for guidance ,then it is a journey. May be we can all meet some agreements on the way there.
What is wrong with physical prostration out of reverence as a mean of connection to the creator ?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you my lovely brother..
I know your faith very well.. You know why I'm saying so..
But all I have to say is read the verses which you have taken as physical and I have clarified from my end in this topic Kharra verses.. In case you missed..
And again I don't compel you not SJD physically.. But Allah has clarified in His Quran what exactly He meant by SJD, so try to reach the meaning what Allah meant..
Definitley yo true believer Guidance of Allah will reach fully and never they be misguided.. Work hard My lovely brother to achieve it...
Allah's guidance is THE guidance.. And He knows who is guided aright and who astray.. So all these personal stuff between one's Lord and himself..
Thank you -
Brother jkhan.
Falling prostrate ,weeping is an instinct in all believers . Don t you think that acknowledgement to GOD s words of truth comes in physical form as well?
Somewhere in our journey of submitting to the creator comes reverence of a big scale and connecting to GOD is both physical and mental/spiritual/in works...Strange how prostration in awe of GOD s Aayats always leads to eyes overflowing with emotion In prostration, weeping
These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall Sujada/ prostrate, weeping.
أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ أَنعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ ءادَمَ وَمِمَّن حَمَلنا مَعَ نوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسرٰءيلَ وَمِمَّن هَدَينا وَاجتَبَينا إِذا تُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم ءايٰتُ الرَّحمٰنِ خَرّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّاLike I said I also agree with some of your take on SJD in other verses with different contexts..
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother GL..
Salam my fellow believer...
As I stated earlier Kharra verses I have clarified... It seems you have not grasped my explanation or you understood my explanation but not in a position to get why it can't be physical... Well.. I was in a conundrum why it can't be physical but up until God's clarification reached me...
So my lovely brother it has to reach to you from Allah to get it right.. Until then keep reflecting.. You know GL I have a best friend.. Such a wonderful human being... We have real debate about physical prostration... He is utterly convinced SJD is physically prostrating and he keeps reiterating to me to physically prostrate.. He follows Quran alone... But God's path is clear in Quran.. Trust me.. It will reach to all believers if they seek truly... Guidance of Allah won't come all at once but gradually... Wasn't there a time I could even think of calling SJD not physical... Well.. In front of Allahs path we leave falsehood without feeling shame..
So.. I won't reiterate you lovely brother.. Cuz I know how good a person you are. Just explore all SJD verses for couple of days and beg for truth and be neutral and leave it to Allah to guide and choose... You know brother accepting and leaving all habits are not damn easy... It takes mammoth leap to do so... I am sure Allah will convince you... Did you hear what I said, "Allah will convince you " about SJD...Note Ask to yourself how many times you weeped while reading Quran and specially when understood first time something in correct way... And you immediately left old understanding..yes that's SJD and weeping. .. That's humbling and SJD...
As a person who believes I clarified what God has guided me with... And I know until guidance reach it is not easy to understand me... So I am patient with my fellow believers who seek...
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First of all Ruku means abide by / comply / be subservient / be submissive etc...
Now let's compare below two verses where a command is given stating "when it is said"..7748
"And when it is said to them, 'Abide by / rā kāf ʿayn ر ك ع' they do not abide by."2560
And when it is said to them, "acknowledge sīn jīm dāl س ج د to Ar'Rahman," they say, "And what is Ar'Rahman? Should we acknowledge to that which you order us ...."Aren't the above two verses identical when it comes to command.. Indeed yes.. But if taken in general understanding or conventional Muslims' understanding it is like "when it is said to them to RUKU OR SJD physically they don't "
Why do we need to tell others to RUKU physically ie to be in such a posture what RUKU depicts...similarly why do we need to tell others to SJD physically to be in such a posture which SJD depicts... Well.. No.. We don't need to say anything like that to disbelievers.. In the first place they have not accepted God and they don't believe in One God and on top of that why to tell them to physically kneel and SJD? Are we crazy? .. All we need to say if you love disbelievers for any given reasons is ABIDE BY (ruku).. Abide by what? God's path... Or acknowledge (SJD) to to God's path...
But they BELIE the command.. They refuse... Doesn't that make sense my fellow believers? -
Thank you brother jkhan.
I have passed arguing my way or even insisting on anything towards others. I know that I would never be guided if GOD sees that I do not qualify according to His criteria. Therefore why impose my criteria with arguments with others?
It is enough for me to seek my own guidance and do my best to follow GOD Alone using His message and my faculties that I alone is responsible for.
You are my friend and I respect you and those who ponder using their faculties to understand and follow GOD s message.
Believing and submitting to our creator leads to a minimum of following the straight path to lead a righteous life. This is the most important thing to have in common with all my fellow believers.
For me, all other differences are irrelevant and GOD is the judge of all His believers.
For information ,I have read your posts with care. I agree with some of your interpretations and disagree with others .
Along in both our journeys ,there might be changes for both of us in the future So let us both trust in GOD and persevere to follow His message to the best of our abilities and efforts.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Thank you brother jkhan.
I have passed arguing my way or even insisting on anything towards others. I know that I would never be guided if GOD sees that I do not qualify according to His criteria. Therefore why impose my criteria with arguments with others?
It is enough for me to seek my own guidance and do my best to follow GOD Alone using His message and my faculties that I alone is responsible for.
You are my friend and I respect you and those who ponder using their faculties to understand and follow GOD s message.
Believing and submitting to our creator leads to a minimum of following the straight path to lead a righteous life. This is the most important thing to have in common with all my fellow believers.
For me, all other differences are irrelevant and GOD is the judge of all His believers.
For information ,I have read your posts with care. I agree with some of your interpretations and disagree with others .
Along in both our journeys ,there might be changes for both of us in the future So let us both trust in GOD and persevere to follow His message to the best of our abilities and efforts.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you for your reply...
Love your last para... Keep seeking guidance and keep heralding God's message in your own understanding... Allah definitely guide His true believers to right path.. Allah may not give all the knowledge and wisdom to all believers but definitely would guide with what is right.. So keep seeking my lovely brother.. Always resoect you... Yes let God decide who is guided aright but don't quit but keep seeking life long... One thing I realized in life is as long I seek guidance flows but if I keep away it doesn't.. It stops.. Allah only guides who are craving for it truly without slightest of arrogance .. In sha Allah...
