Women as sex objects ..
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Salaamun alaikum brother Nural Amin,
I think the idea here is the man had 11 wives in his lifetime but no more than 4 at anyone time.
Brother, where did you get the figure of 11. Al-Quran nowhere says he had 11 wives. Are you falling in the same trap of believing the fabricated hadith and the conjectures?
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaamun alaikum mz357,
i need some info on your articl regarding polygamy please.
The article in question is not mine, so please refrain from saying so, thanks
please counter the following
I do not have to counter anything because, as I said, I did not write the article. You can try to get in touch with the writer of the article. His website is as follows
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/
However I will try to answer some of your questions even though I am not qualified to do that, so please understand my limitations.
Reasons why 43 cannot be marry or marry off orphans.
Orphans may be children so marry off children. How is this possible?
The condition to test them if they are of marriageable age comes in ayah 46 , i.e. 3 ayate after your telling to marry them off, How come? Should be the other way around.
It says marry off orphans, not marry off children. As you have yourself stated there is ayat 46 that gives the condition to test them if they are of marriageable age and that is a continuation of the same chapter. First Allah gives a general instruction to marry off the orphans then gives the condition to test if they are of marriageable age. That is very logical and I dont know why you cannot understand such simple logic. Even if that does not seem logical to you, it does not matter where two ayat talking about the same subject appear in Al-Quran, the meaning is inferred by combining all the similar ayat and trying to understand them as a group.
Either Marry off the women or what your Right hands posseses, Why marry off what you posses? So it isn?t marry off women neither.
The first attempt to prevent hardship is to marry off the women because the guardian of a woman is supposed to support her and that causes financial burden and hardship. But if you fear you will not be able to be fair by doing that then you can marry off the ma malakat aimanakum, which could be male or female.
A question regarding the interpretation that supports "Marrying off".
If it?s marrying off, then why do you think there is a restriction until "4" at all? If marrying off, why not marry off 1000 women at the same time? Why only until 4?When Allah lays down his limits only He knows what is the best number, because He has created us and only He knows what is best for us. In the ayat ordaining 100 lashes for adultery, why "100", why not "50" or "150" or "200" or "175" ???
Sura 4.
Who is the audience?
Clearly the first verse answers this question O Mankind! "Ya ayyuha alnnasu", the audience is mankind.
"Marry the women widows/divorcees/singles who have consented with you two?s, three?s and four?s!" But if you fear that you will be unfair then marry one or what your right hand possessed, this is better than getting into hardship.As in this case entire mankind are spoken to then its perfect structure to say to the entire mankind
Marry what seems good to you of women two?s, three?s or four?s ?????.
Please note it?s not one person Allah has spoken to here as a lot of people tend to think or configure as.
Of course the audience is the entire mankind. This order is being given to all of us, so that each of us can follow it if the condition applies to us. What is your point? And it clearly says two's, three's and four's, and not two, three or four. Think about it.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaamun alaikum all,
Coming back to the topic of beauty, there is beauty in every creation of The God, even in a cow, or a mule, or a donkey
166 And the livestock He created them for you, in them is warmth and benefits, and from them you eat.
167 And for you in them is beauty, when you relax and when you travel.
168 And they carry your loads to a place you would not have been able to reach except with great strain. Your Lord is Compassionate, Merciful.
169 And the horses, and mules, and donkeys, that you may ride them and as an adornment. And He creates what you do not know.2763 The One who created the heavens and the Earth, and He sent down water from the sky for you, so We cause gardens to grow with it that are full of beauty. It is not your ability to cause the growth of its trees. Is there a god with God? No. But they are a people who ascribe equals!
We can appreciate beauty but should not get involved in it so much that we forget our real purpose in this life i.e. to establish peace and harmony and be righteous and spend our life according to the will of The God
1829 And have patience upon yourself regarding those who call on their Lord at dawn and dusk seeking His presence, and let not your eyes overlook them that you seek the beauty of this worldly life. And do not obey the one whom We have made his heart heedless of Our remembrance and he followed his desire, and his fate was lost.
1846 Wealth and buildings are the beauty of this life. But the good deeds that remain behind are better with your Lord for a reward, and better for hope.
3353 No women are lawful to you beyond this, nor that you change them for other wives, even though you may be attracted by their beauty, except those to whom you are committed by oaths. And God is watchful over all things.
1025 The example of the worldly life is like a water which has come down from the sky, so it mixed with the plants of the Earth from what mankind and the livestock eat. Then the Earth takes its shape and becomes beautiful and its inhabitants think that they have mastered it; then Our judgment comes by night or by day, so We make it a wasteland as if it never prospered by the yesterday! It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think.The beauty of the Earth is a test and can mislead us
1540 He said "My Lord, for that which I have been misled by, I will make the Earth appear beautiful for them, and I will mislead them all."
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.....parts of the world in the name of "freedom" or "liberty" or perhaps "sexual poison". What an "evolution"??? Swords of the past, bombs of the present and Nuclear Automated Techonology of the near future.
FREEDOM and PERSONAL LIBERTY not important to you?
Don't you like the FREEDOM to be what YOU want to be instead of people telling you WHAT TO BE?What does NUCLEAR techonology to do with FREEDOM TO SPEAK YOUR MIND and YOUR PERSONAL LIBERTY to SPEAK YOUR MIND?
Are you getting sick of FREEDOM? -)
Regards,
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Salaams tanveer,
ALYATAMA Al-nisa?The widows/devorcees/singles.p624-qd.
Alyatama ?The Orphans.
2220, 42, 43, 46 and 410.Alyateem ? The orphan.
6152, 1734, 8017, 939,1072.Sorry but (i believe) the ayat is talking about the widows/single/devorcess in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA then Marry (Al-nisa)women of your choice, Two?s or three?s or four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Look at the context of the ayah to see what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries .You said
?When Allah lays down his limits only He knows what is the best number, because He has created us and only He knows what is best for us. In the ayat ordaining 100 lashes for adultery, why "100", why not "50" or "150" or "200" or "175" ????This is my view though and no doubt you must check yours ? think.
God Bless.
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Salaamun alaikum mz357,
ALYATAMA Al-nisa?The widows/devorcees/singles.p624-qd.
Alyatama ?The Orphans.
2220, 42, 43, 46 and 410.Alyateem ? The orphan.
6152, 1734, 8017, 939,1072.Sorry but (i believe) the ayat is talking about the widows/single/devorcess in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA then Marry (Al-nisa)women of your choice, Two?s or three?s or four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Look at the context of the ayah to see what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
43 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money to your money; for truly it is a great sin!
44 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.Original Text 44
If you see the original text, the word "orphans" (alyatama) is used separate from the word "women" (alnisa) with preposition "min" in between clearly meaning Allah is talking about the orphans, and then the orphans from the women. The original text does not say "alyatama alnisa" but "alyatama...............min alnisa". Also the context of ayat before and after clearly shows that Allah is talking about orphans, and not widowed women.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries.
We cannot question Allah's limits. Allah knows best that we should marry the women orphans off in fours at the maximum, and we should accept Allah's limits. Probably, if one marries off more than 4 women orphans at a time it will be much more hardship.
God bless,
Tanveer
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Salaams Br.Tanveer,
I said
ALYATAMA Al-nisa?The widows/devorcees/singles.p624-qd.
Alyatama ?The Orphans.
2220, 42, 43, 46 and 410.Alyateem ? The orphan.
6152, 1734, 8017, 939,1072.Sorry but the ayat is talking about the widows in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.001
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
004.002
To Alyatama/widows restore their property , not substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
004.004
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.Look at the context of the ayah to see who is Allah talking about and what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries .
The next section is about the orphan children
004.005
To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.
004.006
Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account.You said
"43 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money to your money; for truly it is a great sin!
44 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.Original Text 44
If you see the original text, the word "orphans" (alyatama) is used separate from the word "women" (alnisa) with preposition "min" in between clearly meaning Allah is talking about the orphans, and then the orphans from the women. The original text does not say "alyatama alnisa" but "alyatama...............min alnisa". Also the context of ayat before and after clearly shows that Allah is talking about orphans, and not widowed women.
Quote
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries.We cannot question Allah's limits. Allah knows best that we should marry the women orphans off in fours at the maximum, and we should accept Allah's limits. Probably, if one marries off more than 4 women orphans at a time it will be much more hardship. "
Rather then our own emotional beliefs i wonder if the people here would look to the two of these quotes and Honestly with hand on their hearts say which makes sense from the english language point of view - Thanks.
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peace to all,
I just dont understand one thing, why on earth a man has to marry a girl just to help ??? Cant we help in any other way...??? Did we come to this world with the purpose to get married ?? Why does we always create a scene as women always need a husband as support ?? OR else what ? Are girls helpless without a man ?
Why do we always try to show that guys are doing a great favore for girls by supporting them??? Doesnt this give the impression that girls are at guys mercy ?
These are very fundamental questions which we should ask ourselves even before trying to understand this verse....
peace
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Salaams shams,
we have to look at this from the point of of some 1400 years ago what was this ayah about then - by looking at the position of the ladies of that time -i think.
But obviously lessons of that time must be aplicable now too.
Gods Blessings.
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Salaamun alaikum mz357, Shamsul Arefin,
004.002
To Alyatama/widows restore their property , not substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
004.003The ayat in question does not say "alyatama alnisa" but says "alyatama", meaning orphans (male or female), not widows.
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Again, this ayat does not say "alyatama alnisa", but says "alyatama...........min alnisa", meaning orphans from the women, not widows. Here Allah is describing only those orphans who are women.
004.004
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.This is the continuation of the above verse ( and........) and Allah is addressing the same women orphans here that were identified in 43. In 45 Allah goes back to discussing both the male and female orphans.
Hope that clarifies.
I just dont understand one thing, why on earth a man has to marry a girl just to help ??? Cant we help in any other way...??? Did we come to this world with the purpose to get married ?? Why does we always create a scene as women always need a husband as support ?? OR else what ? Are girls helpless without a man ?
Man does not have to marry a girl just to help. That idea came from the mistranslation of 43, where clearly Allah is talking about "MARRYING OFF the women orphans" if the guardian of the women orphans cannot deal with them fairly and to avoid financial hardship, and not "MARRY the women orphans" as the translators deliberately mistranslate. The words used are "in twos, threes or fours" indicating MARRY OFF, and not the mistranslated "two, three, or four". Have you ever heard of one person marrying four women at the same time (which "fours" implies) as a common practice?. The only thing that makes sense is MARRY OFF four women to four other men at the same time.
Regards,
Tanveer
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mz357 wrote
we have to look at this from the point of of some 1400 years ago what was this ayah about then - by looking at the position of the ladies of that time -i think.
But obviously lessons of that time must be aplicable now too.
Peace be upon you my friend. We are discussing the Furqan here. Not some story according to Tom, Dick and harry where it will relate only to a specific time. No worries brother but Quran is absolute & Final.
I just dont understand one thing, why on earth a man has to marry a girl just to help ??? Cant we help in any other way...??? Did we come to this world with the purpose to get married ?? Why does we always create a scene as women always need a husband as support ?? OR else what ? Are girls helpless without a man ?
Correct.
Men and women, Men and Women over and over again. We are equal. The quran says men and women are Auliya of each other (9.71).
Lets look at these a little clearly shall we. Just forget everything you have ever known about this subject for a moment. They say "You must empty the tea cup before you pour". La ilaha Illallah.
No deity but god. No divinity. Only god himself. Quran is our only trusted source protected by the teacher himself. God.(43) And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
Some may even argue that "It does not say 1, 2, 3 or 4. Quran says 2's 3's and 4's. Imagine if this is not marry off and really means marry then you can marry four at a time???
Marry off. What does it mean. Is it just organize a meeting between a male and a female and say "you are married. Now off with you". in this case as many say, 2's, 4's or 100's do not matter. its no big deal.
Quran is telling you to take care of the orphans. Marry off is organize their marriage. Its not easy. You have to find right partners. It costs you. maybe you might have to build something for them to live in. It depends on situation. In the case of a Tsunami that affected our country and you take some orphans to live with you? This is how you take care of them. If it is too much of a burden marry the women off.
But you have to be fair. All must be treated equally. You organize a marriage for four but in your heart you have a favourite who you love more than the rest. we are human! If you do not have what it takes (Money, resources) you must still be impartial. If you think you cannot then marry off one by one. Is not that fair.
These orphans could be any ones man. It could be your brothers."Right hand possess" does not just mean what you possess. Then it will just say "Possess". Why??? Right hand possess means within your strong hands grasp. What you have a hold of. What you have control of. What you can manage. People working under you.
You decide.
Please teach me.
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Salaams tanveer,shohrab,
ALYATAMA Al-nisa?The widows/devorcees/singles.p624-qd.
Alyatama ?The Orphans.
2220, 42, 43, 46 and 410.Alyateem ? The orphan.
6152, 1734, 8017, 939,1072.Sorry but the ayat is talking about the widows in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.001
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.Here The God is telling us something how important ,and the relationship between a man and a woman.
004.002
To Alyatama/widows restore their property , not substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.Now he is telling us not to take advantage be fare to these woman man's partners for life.
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Now he is showing us the way so the women arn't taken advantage of.But if we arn't capable of this method then don' try this.
(If you may recall in those times a lot of widows after wars!)004.004
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.If chose this method give them their rights.
Look at the context of the ayah to see who is Allah talking about and what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries .The next section is about the orphan children where they are tested before marreing them off or what ever else.
004.005
To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.
004.006
Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account.God Bless.
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Sorry but the ayat is talking about the widows in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.001
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.Here The God is telling us something how important ,and the relationship between a man and a woman.
The arguments here are Does it say Marry or Marry off. Even if it is a Widow???
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Now he is showing us the way so the women arn't taken advantage of.But if we arn't capable of this method then don' try this.
(If you may recall in those times a lot of widows after wars!)Are saying again that the Furqan was given to specifically "Those Times"?And also tell me what is the kind thing to do. Marry four widows or give them in marriage. What do you think the Furqan is advicing us to do here.
004.004
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.If chose this method give them their rights.
Look at the context of the ayah to see who is Allah talking about and what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries .- dower when you are marrying some one is law. it is not a free gift. the meaning is different. Look at it from a different angle man.
- It does not say maximum four in that sense. It says 2's 3's and 4's not 2, 3 or 4 which gives a total different meaning. 2's means two at a time. 4's means 4 at a time. It does not limit you to four.
- This is exactly why marrying off you can do 4 at a time and not Marry four people at a time.
Did you read this part
Some may even argue that "It does not say 1, 2, 3 or 4. Quran says 2's 3's and 4's. Imagine if this is not marry off and really means marry then you can marry four at a time???
Did you read this part brother. Please read it and give me logical explanations. I am grateful for your arguments.
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Salaams Br.
Sorry but you do need schooling again,
you said
2. It does not say maximum four in that sense. It says 2's 3's and 4's not 2, 3 or 4 which gives a total different meaning. 2's means two at a time. 4's means 4 at a time. It does not limit you to four.This is what the quran is saying
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.If and when you speak to a number of people ,in this case by the way Allah is speaking to the mankind it makes perfect sense to say
"O people you may marry women 2's ,3's 4's --e.t.c"
Check it with an english Grammer person.
or better still change it to the following to prevent prejudice by the monogomists and ask whether it makes any sense.
?O mankind you may purchase houses 2?s , 3?s , 4?s but if you can only manage one
then one only?But last word please don't mistranslate the parts of the quran to your own believes or Allah will punish those who do that,
Salaams.
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Cool man. Its belief about poligamy. What I have realised is that we have been like this for a long time and are not willing to change the view point. I may be wrong but I still do not have enough as your explation is good but does not argue my point.
Peace brother. Lets take it as a learning session.
Shohorab
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Dear Mz357
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.On what basis do you say this says Widows. Dont just say this says widows but tell us on what basis.
Tanveer saidThe ayat in question does not say "alyatama alnisa" but says "alyatama", meaning orphans (male or female), not widows.
mz357 wrote
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Again, this ayat does not say "alyatama alnisa", but says "alyatama...........min alnisa", meaning orphans from the women, not widows. Here Allah is describing only those orphans who are women.
If you are disputing what Tanweer said above please give logical answers and facts rather than saying "SOrry but".
You asked
Either Marry off the women or what your Right hands posseses, Why marry off what you posses? So it isn?t marry off women neither.
I said
"Right hand possess" does not just mean what you possess. Then it will just say "Possess". Why??? Right hand possess means within your strong hands grasp. What you have a hold of. What you have control of. What you can manage. People working under you.
Prove me wrong please but tell me on what basis.
YOu said
you said
2. It does not say maximum four in that sense. It says 2's 3's and 4's not 2, 3 or 4 which gives a total different meaning. 2's means two at a time. 4's means 4 at a time. It does not limit you to four.This is what the quran is saying
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.If and when you speak to a number of people ,in this case by the way Allah is speaking to the mankind it makes perfect sense to say
"O people you may marry women 2's ,3's 4's --e.t.c"
Check it with an english Grammer person.
You say we must pick widows of our choice and marry them as we please. Then why would god stress that women and men are equal in many places in the Quran. The verse does not say "You may".
And I did take your godly advice and asked "English grammer person". My wife who is an english graduate and is trinity qualified in Speach and drama and also Mrs. Holsinger who is a world renown english speach and drama "Person" included.
YOU ARE WRONG. 2's means two's. Not two.
or better still change it to the following to prevent prejudice by the monogomists and ask whether it makes any sense.
Thus you accept that you are a prejudiced poligamyst.
But last word please don't mistranslate the parts of the quran to your own believes or Allah will punish those who do that
It was not me who translated it brother. I am only a believer. And about Allahs punishment to me, If you can convince me properly I will repent my mistakes. I am sure Allah will forgive me.
You said
Sorry but you do need schooling again
And brother every body needs schooling.
God is the teacher of the Quran .
?The Most Beneficent. Has taught the Qur'?n. (551-2))Have you (O Muhammad) seen him who has taken as his il?h his own ego (desire or lust)? Would you then be a Wak?l (guardian) over him? (2543).
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Salaam Br.
You said
?On what basis do you say this says Widows. Don?t just say this says widows but tell us on what basis.?The word yatama comes from the root Alif ,Ye,Mim.
And can present a man without a wife, a woman without a husband or even children without a parent.
See Page 625 quranic dictionary, and lanes page 137-for a lot more clarification.
To see what Allah has said who he is referring to you have to look at the context whether children or women are the prime people Allah is referring to
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry WOMEN of your choice, Two?s, three?s, four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.You even a blind person can see who Allah is talking about.
And in the following ayah?s you can again see who Allah is referring to from the contexts
004.005
TO THOSE WEAK of understanding make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, BUT FEED AND CLOTHE them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice?
004.006
Make trial of orphans UNTIL THEY REACH THE AGE OF MARRIAGE; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account.YOU ARE WRONG. 2's means two's. Not two.
2?S DOES MEAN TWO?S WHEN DID I SAY IT DOESN?T?
You said ?Thus you accept that you are a prejudiced poligamyst.?
No I don?t but I do accept you are an ass for calling me thus
Salaams.
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And can present a man without a wife, a woman without a husband or even children without a parent.
See Page 625 quranic dictionary, and lanes page 137-for a lot more clarification.
To see what Allah has said who he is referring to you have to look at the context whether children or women are the prime people Allah is referring to
- See one thing is you always refer to orphans as children. Why cannot be there an often who grow up to be of maritable age or some one who was orphaned at maritable age.
- When an orphan grows up to maritable age it does not mean they are not orphans any more.
- You basing the Widow/Orphan argument on the translation argument of Marry and Marry off which has to cleared.
2?S DOES MEAN TWO?S WHEN DID I SAY IT DOESN?T?
Twos means two at time brother. Not upto 2.
I was just being sarcastic back as you were to me.
I apologise.Jazzak Allah. Wassalam.
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Salaams Br.
You said
Twos means two at time brother. Not upto 2.Lets look at the ayah of what it is saying to do with numbering
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry WOMEN of your choice, Two?s, three?s, four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.?O MANKIND? ? Talking to a lot of individual , or plurality of people.
But its telling each of them something whilst talking to the whole lot of them.
You can marry women of your choice two?s,three?s fours???..
This is being told to each member of mankind?
BUT NOTE THIS IS NOT AN EVRYDAY EVENT - IT I BELIEVE WAS ACCEPTABLE WHEN THERE WERE A LOT OF FEMALES , WHEREASE THE MALES -A LOT OF THEM PERISHED IN THE FIGHTING.So if it is applicable now or not is another quistion-i think.
However if I am wrong may Allah give me the understanding
But after careful study of this , I have concluded the above whether brothers here accept it or not , thats their bit.
The condition to test them if they are of marriageable age comes in ayah 46 , i.e. 3 ayate after your telling to marry them off, How come? The condition should come first if the first 3 ayah's ar talking about the orphans.
Lets see someone elses view- whom I honestly respect very much without naming them,This is his view
?I believe that although "ankehoo" can be interpreted as "marry" or "marry-off", I believe that "marry" is more appropriate. The "marry-off"
interpretation fails to explain the switch from ORPHANS to WOMEN in 43.A verse that perhaps can make it clear that there are two entities "yatama" and women and that "yatama" belong to "women" (i.e. the women are widows and the "yatama" are either their biological or adopted
Children) is verse 41274.127 "And they ask you for an opinion/clarification in the WOMEN, say
?The God decrees/clarifies concerning
(1) Them (F) and what is read/recited on you in the book concerning the ORPHANS (F and M) OF THE WOMEN (F) that you did not give them (F) what was written/dictated to them (F) and you desire that you marry them (F), and
(2) the weakened from the children (F and M), and that you take care of the orphans (F and M) with the just/equitable, and what you make/do from goodness, so that The God was/is with it knowledgeable."God Bless All.