Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Why do the daughters get more that their 2/3 share when the wife gets no more that her 1/8 share?
There's no such thing as a 2/3 share in this list.
God gives the list and the proportions.
This rate applies if the spouse of the deceased is still alive.
In other cases, the ratios in the other verses apply. For example, in verse 11, the spouse of the deceased is not alive and the children are left with a different ratio.
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There's no such thing as a 2/3 share in this list.
Why not?
From Surah 411
Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers , for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. an obligation by Allah. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
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Why not?
From Surah 411
Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers , for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. an obligation by Allah. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
In this verse there is no spouse of the deceased and therefore the list and proportions are different.
In verse 12, on the other hand, the deceased has wife and again the list and proportions are different.
In verse 176, the deceased has only brothers and sisters and again the proportions are different.
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In this verse there is no spouse of the deceased and therefore the list and proportions are different.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that verse 11 doesn't apply anymore.
If you exclude verse 11 when you interpret verse 12 then you have no information about how much any sons would inherit compared to daughters. This would be important if the example had sons as well as three daughters instead of three daughters and no sons.
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Why not?
From Surah 411
Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers , for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. an obligation by Allah. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Why insert only?
You keep promoting contradictions in the book.http//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/i001.html
It doesn't make sense; there are no instructions for two daughters, etc. It's always in reference to situations after a will or debt. Similarly, if there's no will, meaning someone suddenly died, there's no way to distribute the excess or shortfall. Who decides who gets the excess? There are a thousand contradictions! Or you can apply correctly for thousands of each and every case!
Summary
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg4432673918 the ones listening the speech, so following very best its, those the ones guided them الله and those themselves holders the comprehension.
Salaam!
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Why insert only?
You're avoiding answering my question. Again.
You keep promoting contradictions in the book.
No, I'm not. Discretionary settlement is not a contradiction, it simply means that individual judgement can not be replaced by a purely rule based system.
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Yes, but that doesn't mean that verse 11 doesn't apply anymore.
If you exclude verse 11 when you interpret verse 12 then you have no information about how much any sons would inherit compared to daughters. This would be important if the example had sons as well as three daughters instead of three daughters and no sons.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that verse 11 doesn't apply anymore.
If you exclude verse 11 when you interpret verse 12 then you have no information about how much any sons would inherit compared to daughters. This would be important if the example had sons as well as three daughters instead of three daughters and no sons.
In verse 11, the ratio of brothers and sisters among the siblings of the deceased's children and in verse 176, the ratio of brothers and sisters among the siblings of the deceased himself is given. We always see that the brother gets twice as much as the sister. In addition, when the rates of inheritance of the female spouse and the male spouse are compared, we see that the male receives twice as much as the female. In this context, we can see that what is desired in verse 12 is 2 units for a brother and 1 unit for a sister.
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You're avoiding answering my question. Again.
No, I'm not. Discretionary settlement is not a contradiction, it simply means that individual judgement can not be replaced by a purely rule based system.I answered your question. There is no surplus or shortfall, and it's a rule-based system. While discretion is allowed in drafting a will, there's no discretion if a person dies without a will, which triggers the inheritance verses, clearly stated from after a will or debt. Similarly, you and Emre keep inserting words like 'only' in the text, promoting a thousand contradictions, no different than that missionary site. Moreover, neither of you answers any questions posted to you, such as how much goes to exactly two daughters or three plus sisters, who gets remainder, who decides, etc.
Summary all thousand plus cases
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg443267
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Summary all thousand plus cases
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg443267
Let me know if there are any cases for distribution, such as 1/3 to parents (1/6 each), 1/4 to the husband, and the remainder (5/12) to two daughters (or any number of daughters and/or sons).
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In verse 11, the ratio of brothers and sisters among the siblings of the deceased's children and in verse 176, the ratio of brothers and sisters among the siblings of the deceased himself is given. We always see that the brother gets twice as much as the sister.
Yes, that's correct. In order to interpret a single verse the wider context must be considered.
In addition, when the rates of inheritance of the female spouse and the male spouse are compared, we see that the male receives twice as much as the female. In this context, we can see that what is desired in verse 12 is 2 units for a brother and 1 unit for a sister.
Yes, except that mother and father receive equal shares. The point is that by choosing a solution that does not involve discretionary settlement of the remainder of the estate, an arbitrary decision is made about what parts of the context are considered.
Discretionary settlement is also relevant in determining how much orphans should benefit if the deceased was their sole guardian and how much the poor should receive.
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Yes, that's correct. In order to interpret a single verse the wider context must be considered.
Yes, except that mother and father receive equal shares. The point is that by choosing a solution that does not involve discretionary settlement of the remainder of the estate, an arbitrary decision is made about what parts of the context are considered.Discretionary settlement is also relevant in determining how much orphans should benefit if the deceased was their sole guardian and how much the poor should receive.
No, it's not arbitrary. It is clearly stated that a brother receives twice as much as a sister.
Furthermore, we can see from the way the same proportions are repeated between the siblings of the children of the deceased in verse 11 and the siblings of the deceased himself in verse 176. In verse 176, even if not all of them are explained individually, we understand by looking at verse 11 where there is no need for repetition. This is because exactly the same proportions are given between the siblings (the siblings of the children in verse 11 and the siblings of the deceased himself in verse 176 take parallel proportions among themselves).
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It is clearly stated that a brother receives twice as much as a sister.
Inapplicable if one female, two need be present.
4176
and if be they Ikhwatan/brethren (3+)
Rijālāan/menfolk and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similar fortune the females two(3 people present — two females is minimum)
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Discretionary settlement is also relevant in determining how much orphans should benefit if the deceased was their sole guardian and how much the poor should receive.
A woman died (no will), distribute following.
How much discretionary, who determines?1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two sons
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two daughters? mother, ? three brothers
? mother, ? three sisters -
A woman died (no will), distribute following.
How much discretionary, who determines?1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two sons
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two daughters? mother, ? three brothers
? mother, ? three sistersYou did not answer my question from my #942. If you have facts to the contrary then now would be a good time to show them.
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No, it's not arbitrary. It is clearly stated that a brother receives twice as much as a sister.
Furthermore, we can see from the way the same proportions are repeated between the siblings of the children of the deceased in verse 11 and the siblings of the deceased himself in verse 176. In verse 176, even if not all of them are explained individually, we understand by looking at verse 11 where there is no need for repetition. This is because exactly the same proportions are given between the siblings (the siblings of the children in verse 11 and the siblings of the deceased himself in verse 176 take parallel proportions among themselves).
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You did not answer my question from my #942. If you have facts to the contrary then now would be a good time to show them.
I answered your question!
You and Emre cannot read!
You insert words like ‘only!’
You read ‘two females’ means one!
You read ‘over two’ as two or more!
You read ‘exactly two’ as two or more!
You do not know the meaning of Kalala!
You post questions, yet refuse to answer!
You should distribute all thousand cases!A woman died (no will), please distribute $120k?
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two sons
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two daughters? mother, ? three brothers
? mother, ? three sistersAs my old professor once said, 'It's an open-book test; call a friend, I'll even give you the answer, only show your work!’
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After the bequest to the mosque there is $10000 to distribute to the daughters and wife, not $1000
2/3 to daughters = $666.66
1/8 to wife = $125.00
surplus = $208.34Min Ba`di (from after) 84 times in Quran.
- Pay off any debt.
- Execute the will ($1,000 is given to the mosque).
- Shares allocated ($10,000 — from after the will).
There is never a shortfall or surplus in the allocation of shares.
411 … from after instruction (will) instructed in it or debt
412 … from after instruction (will) instructed they in it or debt
… from after instruction (will) thou instructing in it or debt
… from after instruction (will) instructed in it or debt1/8 to wife, 7/8 remainder to son/s
1/8 to wife, 7/8 remainder to daughter/s
1/8 to wife, 7/8 remainder to children (411)See the summary for all thousand plus cases
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg443267
Salaam
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I answered your question!
You and Emre cannot read!
You insert words like ‘only!’
You read ‘two females’ means one!
You read ‘over two’ as two or more!
You read ‘exactly two’ as two or more!
You do not know the meaning of Kalala!
You post questions, yet refuse to answer!
You should distribute all thousand cases!A woman died (no will), please distribute $120k?
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two sons
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two daughters? mother, ? three brothers
? mother, ? three sistersAs my old professor once said, 'It's an open-book test; call a friend, I'll even give you the answer, only show your work!’
Don't bother responding to me anymore, you will be ignored.
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Don't bother responding to me anymore, you will be ignored.
Oh, so sad playing world's smallest violin. laugh
Don’t post indefensible nonsense. -
A woman died (no will), please distribute $120k?
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two sons
1/3 parents, 1/4 husband, ? two daughters? mother, ? three brothers
? mother, ? three sistersAs my old professor once said, 'It's an open-book test; call a friend, I'll even give you the answer, only show your work!’
Salaam,
The additional letter 'mim' in 'mimmā/from what left' in verse 4176 puzzled me for years. I thought it should be 'mā/what left'. It wasn't a scribal error, as all the oldest manuscripts confirmed. The key difference finally dawned on me, which also affects the distribution of inheritance among siblings.
4176 so to them dual the third two (2/3) mimmā/from what left
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/4/verse/176/manuscripts
It's important to note that this specific part of the verse pertains to the mother and exactly two sisters, clarifying that they always share equally if they are the sole inheritors, similar to the scenario when there is only one sister and the mother. This is because the mother's share is variable without the presence of a child, father, or brother, whereas it becomes fixed when any of these relatives are present.
Notice difference to spouses if no children
Husband 1/2 "mā/what left," applied after paying off, for example, parents.
Wife 1/4 "mimmā/from what left," paying off first by taking from the total.
411
so if not be for him (i.e., person in question) offspring (child)
and inherit him parents dual his, so to mother his the third (1/3)The mother (if father alive) always gets 1/3
1/3 mother, 2/3 father
1/3 mother, 1/4 wife mimmā/from what left, 5/12 father
1/3 mother, 1/3 husband (1/2 * 2/3 mā/what left), 1/3 fatherso if are to him (said person) 'Ikhwatun, so to mother his the sixth (1/6)
1/6 mother, 5/6 brothers
4176
and to him (person) sister so for her half mā/what left
and he inherited her if not be for her offspring (child)1 sister, 1+ brothers (1.0x share equally)
1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 mother1/6 mother, 5/12 sister (1/2 * 5/6 mā/what left), 5/12 brother
so if kānatā (feminine dual) two (females; i.e., exactly two!)
so to them dual (f) the third two (2/3) mimmā/from what left2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 mother
and if are they of brethren (3+) menfolk of and womenfolk
so, to the male similar fortune (portion) the females twonote 1 above requires minimum two females present.
note 2 this covers all 2+ females, 1+ males’ scenarios.
note 3 difference vs. 411 if "3+" sets to exactly two (2 daughters, 1+ sons)2+ sisters, 1+ brothers (2.0x to males)
1/2 two sister (1/4), 1/2 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother8th line from top the 4th word is الكلله l-kalālati
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/manuscripts/15/page/2r?sura=4&verse=176
