The Supposed Quran Chronological Error: "Mary, sister of Aaron" - Refuted!
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Peace Emre.
I agree that some historical information may be false ,biased or wrong ,but in the case of Moses and Jesus there exists some consistency of facts that their eras were centuries apart under different civilisations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.The history taught is dramatically wrong, my friend.
Unfortunately, I see that you are still under the influence of the false Bible in this regard.
And it's almost as if turning to the truth about it gives you a jolt.
There is none of the evidence you are talking about, there is really nothing in the false Bible that supports history/chronology. Because it is, as the name implies, a book of hadiths written by man.
In contrast, the Qur'an, which contains the words of God, gives the real history and the real chronology, as you can see.
By the way, according to the Bible, the sister of Moses is Mary. The name of Moses' nephew is Jesus (Joshua). Again, Mary's and Moses' father's name is Imran. Joshua's mother's name was Mary.
And the Holy Koran confirms this. The life of the person mentioned there is Jesus(Isa,Joshua) himself.
But later in the Bible, Joshua is again treated as if he were a different person, and in the false Gospels in a fabricated way. Jesus, who lived in much earlier times, is then added again(New Testament). And the chronology is completely perverted.
Peace
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(Mar 92-13; Luke 928-36)
Why use 1st-century writings? Why not also quote Peter and Paul?
Who are these people? According to you, they have nothing to do with the Qur'an!
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Peace Emre.
You are making more assumptions as we are going along in this conversation,where did I even mention the bible?
Read my posts again, I am asking you some useful questions and using only Qoran so far.Unfortunately you are not answering any of my points used from Qoran.
I think you are going to continue and insist that you are right and you continue to ignore what I say to you.I was trying to make you reflect on your view and not just keep making assumptions and mix generations.
In my opinion you are making Qoran say what it does not say or confirm. But your choice.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Emre.
You a you.
Peace.Peace Good Logic;
Everything you are talking about is based on the Bible and its false history. You couldn't write me anything else.
I am answering you from the Quran.
It is your choice to persist in your error and ignore the evidence. I hope that one day you will be able to give up this behaviour.
Salaam
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Peace Emre.
You say , Quote
""O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an evil person. Nor was your mother unchaste." (19/2Although this expression can also mean "descendant of Aaron". But here we are told that Mary was really Aaron's sister."
How can you claim that we are told that Mary was REALLY THE SISTER of Aaron?
Do you mean it is clarified elsewhere in Qoran? Where?
So it could mean just "descendant of Aaron, let me give a clear example from Qoran about the clarification1- Qoran uses " My brother Aaron" this is Moses saying it
2- The clarification that Aaron is the real brother of Moses comes in another verse where Aaron calls Moses "Son of my mother"
In this case one is right to claim that Aaron is the real brother of Moses.
Not so in the case of Aaron and Meriem/Mary.Anyway , like I said to all those who give different interpretations according to their understanding, the evidence will have to be strong and consistent with all other verses in Qoran on the subject.
I do not see this from your article.I agree that some historical information may be false ,biased or wrong ,but in the case of Moses and Jesus there exists some consistency of facts that their eras were centuries apart under different civilisations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace GL...
Very unfortunate... So.. For you DECENDANT of Harun is fine and not SISTER of Harun...
That clarifies manifestly what's in your preconceived mind.. What makes you leave clear word of SISTER and take it as DECENDANT ? ...so...unfortunately your mind is NOT allowing to accept Quran's truth but history... You have given priority to history and based on that you are judging Quran and not within Quran.. Even how much you attempt to say No.. It is not.. You don't realize it.. Emere is right in a way.. You have occupied your mind to something else...
People have problem to accept Maryam as Sister of Harun not cuz verses of Quran not clear but theur minds are filled with fabricated history... That's so unfortunate... I wonder even if the verse states "O sister of Musa " people would say not the same musa OR DECENDANT of musa OR something out of their mind cuz mind is preconceived with falsehood..It's not invention we are talking about... It's Quran verse...
Lol.. Where in Quran it is written ukhta means DECENDANT? you want to accept which has no proof but glaring proof you decline.
Anyway... I am not compelling brother... If it sounds we are compelling, extremely sorry... But I know you all believe in Quran alone... So keep exploring... Leave the guidance to Allah alone.. Leave the falsehod by allowing Allah to enter to your way...
Thank you... -
Peace jkhan.
Again, why are you assuming for me what I quoted from Emre?
My take is this
Sister of Aaron can be a real sister/ brother or from the same root family or from the same faith i.e believer .Believers are "Ikhwatun" which means brothers and sisters with each others also according to Qoran.
So I am saying neither you nor brother Emre have given a convincing view.Qoran often clarifies for us with other verses. In the case of "sister of Aaron" there are no other verses that clarify YOUR understanding.
And if you both insist it means "real sister" of Aaron, then I disagree with you because of the context of many verses that highlight other people in their generations . Mary and Aaron lived in different eras with different people and civilisation. . I have given you examples from Qoran why I do.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The perspective that Jesus was a nephew of Moses does not align with the historical or scriptural evidence presented by Islamic, Christian, or Jewish traditions. The Quran, the Bible, and historical chronology clearly place Moses (Musa) and Jesus (Isa) in vastly different periods, with several centuries separating their lives. Here's a clarification based on Islamic scripture and historical context
Chronological Evidence
Moses lived in the period of ancient Egypt's New Kingdom, traditionally placed by religious scholars and historians in the 13th century BCE, during the time of the Pharaohs. His mission, as detailed in both the Quran and the Bible, involves leading the Israelites out of Egypt.
Jesus, according to Christian tradition and Islamic scripture, was born in the 1st century CE, specifically around 4 BCE to 1 CE, under Roman rule in Judea. This places him roughly 1300 to 1500 years after the time of Moses.Quranic Evidence
The Quran mentions Moses and Aaron together in several surahs (chapters), discussing their mission to Pharaoh and the Israelites, with no indication that they are contemporaries of Jesus and Mary. For instance, Surah Ash-Shu'ara (2623-66) recounts the story of Moses confronting Pharaoh and leading the Israelites out of Egypt.
Conversely, Surah Maryam (19) focuses on Mary and the birth of Jesus, emphasizing the miraculous nature of Jesus's birth and Mary's chastity. The narrative and miracles associated with Jesus, such as speaking from the cradle (1929-33), clearly indicate a different time and context from that of Moses and Aaron.Theological Context
Islamic theology, based on the Quran, views prophets as being sent to different peoples and times, with messages relevant to their specific contexts. While the Quran does not provide exact dates, it articulates a sequence of prophethood that places Moses and Aaron among the earlier prophets, with Jesus appearing much later as one of the last prophets before Muhammad.Genealogical and Historical Impossibility
Given the historical timelines and the Quranic narratives, it is genealogically and historically impossible for Jesus to be the nephew of Moses. Such a claim disregards the clear chronological and contextual evidence presented in Islamic scripture and historical records.
In summary, while the Quran teaches respect for all prophets and emphasizes the continuity of monotheistic message through different eras, it clearly distinguishes between the times and missions of Moses and Jesus. The idea of Jesus being a nephew of Moses is not supported by the Quran, historical evidence, or the established traditions of Islam, Christianity, or Judaism."Sister of Aaron" is used figuratively rather than literally, indicating Mary's piety and possibly her Levitical lineage, as Aaron was a figure associated with priesthood and devotion in Jewish tradition.
While our discussions often gravitate towards intriguing aspects of the Quran, such as the interpretation of verse 1928 or the longevity of Noah, it's imperative to remember the overarching purpose and guidance the Quran provides. Even if, on the Day of Judgment, it is revealed that Noah lived 950 years or that Jesus is considered a nephew of Moses, what fundamental difference would that make to our faith's essence? Would such details determine our fate, or suggest that individuals like GL, HAWK, and myself, who seek to understand and interpret the Quran through a different lens, are doomed? It's crucial to acknowledge that the criteria with Allah extend far beyond these specifics. We are not rejecting the Quran; rather, we are engaging with it earnestly, seeking understanding and interpretations that resonate with our quest for spiritual and ethical guidance. The Quran is replete with teachings on justice, compassion, unity, and the oneness of Allah—principles meant to navigate us through life. Let's focus our energy on how these teachings can shape a just, compassionate society, and help us embody the values Allah has laid out for us. Labeling individuals as unfortunate for exploring diverse interpretations overlooks the Quran's broader message of guidance, mercy, and understanding. Let us embrace the diversity of thought within our community, focusing on the essence of the Quranic message and how it applies to bettering ourselves and the world around us.
By the way, I have a friend at work, someone I've known for a long time, whose family name is Ajami. Knowing he is of pure Arab descent, I once curiously asked him about the origins of his distinct family name, as "Ajami" traditionally means "non-Arab" or "foreigner" in Arabic. He shared with me a fascinating piece of his family's history.
Long before, the chief of his tribe had a problem with his tongue, making it difficult for him to pronounce words clearly. This speech impediment made him sound different, almost as if he had a foreign tongue, to those within his own community. As a result, people began to refer to him as "Ajami," a term which, in this context, could be interpreted as "the mute" or someone whose mother tongue was not Arabic. This unique characteristic of the chief became a defining trait of his lineage.
Over time, this appellation not only stuck but also became a source of identity for his descendants. It's intriguing to see how this personal trait of an ancestor transformed into a proud family name, carrying the legacy of their forebear. I've even witnessed other Arab friends refer to my colleague in his absence, asking, "Where has the son of Ajami gone?" This way of referencing him links back to his tribal lineage and the notable story of his ancestor.
This anecdote is a testament to how names and titles have historically been imbued with significance, often derived from personal traits, occupations, or notable events. Such practices are not uncommon, echoing the way individuals are often identified in religious and historical texts, like the "sister of Aaron," highlighting the importance of familial and communal connections. It's a beautiful reminder of how our names can carry stories of our heritage, identity, and the enduring legacy of our ancestors.In addition, The Quranic reference to Mary as the "sister of Aaron" in Surah 1928 indeed comes from people addressing Mary, questioning her purity and the miraculous birth of Isa (Jesus). This phrasing reflects the societal reaction to Mary's situation rather than a direct divine statement about her lineage or identity. In the Quran, divine affirmations concerning Mary, her purity, and the miraculous birth of Jesus are conveyed without specifically using the term "sister of Aaron" in God's voice. The Quran narrates these divine proclamations and descriptions through various means, including dialogue with angels and direct statements, to highlight Mary's esteemed status and the miraculous nature of Jesus's birth. For example, Surah 342 (Aal-E-Imran) where God chooses Mary, stating, "O Mary, indeed God has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds," showcases her exalted position without referencing her as the "sister of Aaron." Similarly, the announcement of Jesus's birth in Surah 345-47 presents a divine message of glad tidings to Mary about her son, emphasizing his distinguished status without employing the familial descriptor used by her contemporaries in Surah 1928.
These passages affirm Mary's virtue and the miraculous conception of Jesus, demonstrating the Quran's layered narrative style. This approach allows the text to convey deep respect and acknowledgment of Mary's role and the significance of Jesus's birth, employing varied voices and perspectives to unfold the narrative.Lastly I want to draw attention to the verse 1822 where God is asking people not to waste their time in knowing the numbers but focus on the essence of message Hence, lets not indulge similarly as these folks are mentioned.
"Coming to the present time, instead of remembering what a huge revolution they had brought, people indulge in a futile discussion regarding how many they were some say they were three and their dog was the fourth, others say they were five and their dog was the sixth, and still others guess about what they actually did not know. If they want to drag you also into such a discussion, treat this matter only casually and tell them O Rasool that it is no use discussing a matter about which only Allah knows (as to what their number was). The point to be discussed about is what was their mission and what revolution did they bring about." -
Allah is well aware history will be distorted and made to believe that it is the truth... So Allah tries people even with one verse whether they accept loads of stuff fabricated and presented or they believe only one verse which has no supporting evidences to state but verse is clear.. So people are tried... Choose history invented by humans or the one verse of Quran.. "O SISTER of Harun " is more than enough wording to accept Maryam was SISTER of Harun.. But.. People are reluctant.. And reluctant fir what reason? Cuz they have better proofs than QURAN.. Alan's knows who is guided aright and who are misguided.. Anyway having said that let me present below as well..
" O People of the Scripture, why do you argue about IBRAHIM while the Torah and the Injeel were not revealed until after (Min Ba'di) him? Then will you not reason? " 365
By the above glaring verse, we can deduce that ibrahim was not someone who lived thousands of years before Musa but Musa decended just after Ibrahim's grand children's demise or so on, in order for Allah to state that what is stated in the above verse and on top of that for those who argued about Ibrahim's ethnic group... They somehow wanted to claim Ibrahim was a Jewish person... Had Ibrahim lived many centuries before they wouldn't have even attempted to say so..fruitless.. Isn't it.. But they somehow were keen to fabricate and claim he was one of them and perhaps attempting to authenticate that Ibrahim was beginning of Jewish ethnicity.. ... But Allah declines..
Below is an authentic statement with intent by the one who believed in Musa but he concealed his faith in fear of Pharou..
"And YOUSUF had already come to you before (Min Kablu)with clear proofs, but you remained in doubt of that which he brought to you, until when he died, you said, 'Never will Allah send a messenger after him.' Thus does Allah leave astray he who is a transgressor and skeptic." 4034
It's obvious Musa has come right after Yousuf as a messenger to the people of Pharou.. It is obvious closest forefathers of people of pharou were warned by YOUSUF then with time Musa arrived..
Above two verses have very strong claim that No one was far away in time like history teaches us.. Allah kept on sending messengers at a continuous process...
Min Kablu and Min Ba'di could be any period before and after respectively but if worded specifically then it can mean immediately before and immediately after respectively..
Note below verse..
They said, "O our people, indeed we have heard a Scripture (Quran) revealed after Musa confirming what was before it which guides to the truth and to a straight path." 4630
Yes.. Above is a statement of group of Jinns... Strangely they didn't say anything about Injeel but they straightaway said after Musa.. It has a valid reason.. The Torah was a complete scripture and needless to look anywhere else for guidance when Torah was complete.. Such a profound book same like Quran.. Perhaps even better.. Allah knows best.. But Injeel which was placed only in Isa is not that kind of book but mainly came to remind and point out what they concealed in Torah which was decended for Allahs favourite people Banee Israel. They definitely were above the alamin (all races) and their book cannot be simple.. That's why Isa was taught even the Torah though he was given with Injeel.. So Quran and Torah are two great revelations of the history... People knew it..
Take a look below"Yet when the truth came to them 'from Ourselves, they said, 'Why has he not been given the like' of that Musa was given?' But they, did they not disbelieve also in what Musa was given aforetime? They said, 'A pair of sorceries mutually supporting each other.' They said, 'We disbelieve both (Torah and Quran)." 2848
So people knew Injeel was not the level of Torah and Quran.. But by the above verse it further hints that Torah is level higher than QURAN cuz the tone of the people seems they knew what Torah was and Quran is not right up there.. But Allah knows what to reveal..
So... Looking at all evidences, it is pretty obvious that from the time Ibrahim to Mohamed is not far like we are indoctrinated with... But very much constant... If any messenger came to Banee Israel with at least a lapse of being void of messengers then that could only be Mohamed.. But every point of time they always had Messengers in cluster..
Ibrahim was born 2100 years before Jesus and Moses was born 1500 years before Jesus are sheer lies and it has no concrete evidence at all.. Let's for the sake of debate and its solidarity, take the Gregory calender as Jesus's era... Then Ibrahim is not far than 300-400 years from there.. Tone of Quran is clear... People might have lived long years pre-flood era and right after but it won't make Ibrahim saw from Nuh or Hud or Salih etc... They might have born long before to ibrahim but ended very close to Ibrahim..
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Peace Hawk; I also have an article on this subject;
Now let us come to the verse that those who try to attribute symbolic meanings to the verses and try to shape the religion the way they want it to be, try to present as a basis
ALI IMIRAN
7- He has revealed this Book to you. Some of its verses are clear (muhkam), which are the essence of the Book. Others have a similar meaning (mutashabih). Those whose hearts are diseased go after those with similar meanings in order to mislead people and give them different meanings. No one knows their true meaning, except God and those with deep knowledge who say, "We believe in it, it is from our Lord." None take admonition except those who have understanding and wisdom.
Those who want to interpret the verses as they please claim that this verse means that parts of the Book are symbolic.
But in reality, it does not say that some of the verses are metaphorical and some are symbolic, that is, you can believe in what you want and disbelieve in what you want, or that you can accept the verse where it suits you and say "no, it is symbolic" where it does not suit you. THIS VERSE ALSO SAYS THAT ALL VERSES HAVE A CLEAR AND PRIMARY MEANING, BUT THAT SOME VERSES HAVE SECONDARY AND TERTIARY MEANINGS BESIDES THEIR PRIMARY AND OBVIOUS MEANINGS, AND THAT UNBELIEVERS WILL DENY THE OBVIOUS MEANING OF THE VERSES AND GO AFTER THESE SYMBOLIC MEANINGS.
Otherwise, if it were as the symbolists say, there would be no source at all, and everyone would go after their own fabrications.
All verses have the first clear meaning. First we accept this and consider the book as a whole. Then we will do some mental gymnastics on whether some verses have other secondary or tertiary meanings besides this clear first meaning. But first of all, we must have faith in the first clear meaning of those verses too. Otherwise, only Allah knows which verse has other meanings besides its original meaning and what those meanings are. People can only do mental gymnastics with imprecise statements such as "this verse may also have this meaning".
Unfortunately, many people today have the disease of denying the clear meaning of verses and attributing representative meanings to them in order to have their values and teachings confirmed by the book. This is nothing but an indirect or masked denial of the teaching of the Qur'an. Some people try to distort the plain meaning of clear verses by attributing symbolic meanings to paradise and hell, or to angels or jinns. Again, in this way, they may try to make things that are there in the verses appear to be absent and things that are not there appear to be there. In fact, this is how every book and every doctrine is validated. Because once something is said to be symbolic, it can be taken in any direction.
Therefore, we will read the Qur'an, which is the clear and only religious source, in its clear-first meaning and in its entirety. Then the true Islam in the Qur'an will be easily revealed, and the understanding of religion will not vary from person to person.
Greetings and love.
(My Turkish article translated with machine)
http//emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/07/kuran-bir-semboller-kitab-degildir.html
Peace Emre_1974tr are you saying that there are no metaphors or similes in the Quran?
I appreciate you translating mutashābihātun as similar (a noun) while others translate the word
as unspecific or allegorical as an adjective. Please share how you determine which part
of speech is mutashābihātun in 37God bless you
peace
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Peace Emre_1974tr are you saying that there are no metaphors or similes in the Quran?
I appreciate you translating mutashābihātun as similar (a noun) while others translate the word
as unspecific or allegorical as an adjective. Please share how you determine which part
of speech is mutashābihātun in 37God bless you
peace
All verses are in the first clear meaning of self-evident. And some verses have secondary and tertiary or quaternary meanings apart from their primary self-evident meaning, too. But in those verses we must first believe in the first self-evident meaning too.
If the Qur'an is going to make a simile or metaphor, it states it clearly. For example, the Qur'an says, "It is like this and that", and the Qur'an itself explains what it likens to what.
By the way, folk idioms also have a primary clear dictionary meaning in the verses. For example, the sinking of the sun means evening. Or in Turkish we say the sun is borning, meaning it is morning.
In short, the whole book is self-evident. If it were not so, anyone who wishes would say "this is a symbol, do not believe in the first meaning" and cancel that verse in a masked way. And countless cruel people trying do this.
Peace
