Destiny of poor people in this World and Hereafter.....
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You can argue or can comment or discuss... whatever of your choice but bring some conclusive results on this topic...Concerns are as under..
The one who is born poor and lived poor and said goodbye as poor are many millions on this Earth regardless of their hidden and conspicuous respective faiths towards Allah...
... How can a person who from birth to death lived a desperately pathetic life when it comes to material aspects of life, appreciate or be grateful to their Creator?
Based on what, they are to be grateful to their Lord? Miserable were their lives... They didn't hoard materials and were greedy... Allah says 'Is blind and the one who sees same?' .. so everyone is not same.. Neither rich nor poor same.. who is more worthy to be humiliated in the hereafter if not those who possessed the wealth of their Lord and not amongst the grateful ?..
when it comes to knowledge... are knowledgeable ones and illiterate the same?
No... So if poor people were illiterate how can they use their intellect as well... Allah ask people to use their intelligence... most poor people are illiterate given that they don't have finances to educate...Would Allah punish pathetic poor people? ....
wouldn't poor people say at one point in the Hereafter if they were in the hellfire, "Allah neither kept our lives in our past life comfortable nor in the Hereafter"
when it comes to disbelieving Rich people, at least their present life is better... so why would poor disbelieving people have to go through such trauma in this world and the hereafter? could that be vindicated by any means?How can those who were deprived of Allah's resources (materials/power/knowledge) be punished while their life was like the lives of animals i.e. lived on begging or dependent on others due to compulsion and survival...
Would you want a kid to pass the exam while a kid was never sent to school? Is that logical? if it is not, then isn't the concern of the poor also the same?
anyway .... appreciate your perspectives...
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Dear Bother Jkhan,
Very important and profound questions, and I am sure you have analyzed it from multiple perspectives, considering various scenarios both intellectually and emotionally. Although your post contains many queries, it essentially boils down to the followingHow can individuals who have lived their entire lives in poverty, without access to material wealth, education, or other resources, be expected to appreciate or be grateful to their Creator (while being alive), and how does God's justice address their suffering in both this life and the Hereafter?
I believe that others, such as GoodLogic, are more qualified to provide answers based on Quranic verses and discussions, which might offer clarity regarding the circumstances.
While we might not completely grasp about Allah's scheme, we can believe that His justice is perfect and considers all the factors we might not see or understand. Our perspective is limited, and we only see a small part of the bigger picture that Allah sees in full. None of us can fully understand or play the role of God in people's lives, but trying to understand His wisdom is an important part of our spiritual journey and your questions are important as they talk about the plight of the poor and their relationship with their Creator.
I have seen poor people often are more appreciative and grateful to God by having cling to (their version of) faith and become happy with smallest of joys in their lives as they already realized that they will most likely end up as poor in this life all the way.
I might add a twist to your thread by introducing man-made poverty and Hunger which resulted in atleast 5 million deaths at the hands of powerful people and certainly those who misuse wealth and power are often warned of severe consequences and they will get God's wrath at the expense of collateral (poor people dying as a result of their policies).
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Eventually, I stopped pondering along these lines because, in my life nowadays, I find myself questioning HIS silence over the daily suffering of a group of people—a whole nation—at the hands of the so-called chosen people. I struggle to reconcile why there is no immediate justice. Perhaps HE knows best why HE allows the oppressors to exceed their tragic actions, justifying their eventual punishment and granting great rewards to those who have suffered and perished. Ultimately, this underscores the fragility of our lives and the reality that everything we acquire here will not aid us in the hereafter, except for a clean conscience.
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This reminds me of years ago, walking down a busy street and encountering a homeless black man with the nicest smile who said, "I may be poor, but I'm happy." It's a mindset “The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.” ― John Milton, Paradise Lost
It's not about intellect, for the rich are equally tested with family, health, and loss of wealth. In addition, the poor dream about getting rich, whereas the rich dream about being poor. Likewise, they are consumed with the price of stocks, Bitcoin every other minute, idolize billionaires, and compete over who has the better house, car, or prettier wife. They often live like prisoners locked in their fortress, afraid to walk the streets or face the certainty of death.
1832-44 and strikes for them similitude of ...
Another example 740 الجمل (without diacritical marks)
jamalu "camel" (with fatha over jeem)
jumālu "thick rope" (dama over jeem)Los Angeles County Museum of Art M.2002.1.385 Estimated date 700-750CE
6th line from top last word with red dots i.e., fatha, kasra, and dama
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/manuscripts/1292/page/1r?sura=7&verse=40https//i.postimg.cc/50ZpyDXT/ch7v40.jpg
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"
Mark 1025, Matthew 1924, and Luke 1825 originally in Aramaic and later translated into Greek. During the copying process, the word καμιλον (kamilon), meaning 'thick rope' for anchoring ships, was mistranslated as καμηλον (kamēlon), meaning 'camel.'
The question is thread a thick rope or a camel through the eye of a needle?
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In this world money seems to be the criteria for best life, but i do not think so, Poor or Rich is just our way of seeing things, i do not see much difference, the wealth need not be only material wealth, there are other things like health/strength, knowledge, money and above all the peace of mind that one gets. I think only if one gets the right knowledge, he or she is really truly wealthy, they see things the right way(even here the question of what is the right knowledge comes into play)
The wealthy by money may be rich and happy,but if they are stingy and do not use their wealth for helping people nearby and those in need, people start cursing them and he and his generation may suffer without peace of mind, to know that the wealth of his making is only his blessing, one need to be little blessed with knowledge and guidance too. Its not only about material wealth, its about other things too, Not everyone looks to get everything at the same time.
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When we submit to GOD means we know about GOD.We cannot say we are Muslim to GOD if we are not aware of GOD.
Therefore GOD is fully aware of each person and their circumstances.
وَلَقَد ءاتَينا إِبرٰهيمَ رُشدَهُ مِن قَبلُ وَكُنّا بِهِ عٰلِمينَ
GOD granted Abraham his guidance above everything else. GOD tries everyone who says I submit and brings out their true conviction.Those who go the distance and pass the test will be looked after in this life and in the hereafter, that is GOD s promise. How long is the distance depends on GOD s knowledge of their intentions and convictions.
About rich and poor , well we move to another example, Ayyub
And Job implored his Lord "Adversity has befallen me, and, of all the merciful ones, You are the Most Merciful."
وَأَيّوبَ إِذ نادىٰ رَبَّهُ أَنّى مَسَّنِىَ الضُّرُّ وَأَنتَ أَرحَمُ الرّٰحِمينَThere are many examples of rich that became very poor and vise versa. Life is like that.
However those who know GOD know that He responds to the implorer ,eventually. Yes even to provide food for them when hungryHer Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, "Mary, where did you get this from?" She would say, "It is from God. God provides for whomever He chooses, without limits."
فَتَقَبَّلَها رَبُّها بِقَبولٍ حَسَنٍ وَأَنبَتَها نَباتًا حَسَنًا وَكَفَّلَها زَكَرِيّا كُلَّما دَخَلَ عَلَيها زَكَرِيَّا المِحرابَ وَجَدَ عِندَها رِزقًا قالَ يٰمَريَمُ أَنّىٰ لَكِ هٰذا قالَت هُوَ مِن عِندِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَرزُقُ مَن يَشاءُ بِغَيرِ حِسابٍThat is when Zachariah implored his Lord "My Lord, grant me such a good child; You are the Hearer of the prayers."
هُنالِكَ دَعا زَكَرِيّا رَبَّهُ قالَ رَبِّ هَب لى مِن لَدُنكَ ذُرِّيَّةً طَيِّبَةً إِنَّكَ سَميعُ الدُّعاءِWe need to help ourselves as well ,by persevering and making the effort and keep our loyalty to GOD Alone .
Actually with perseverance and effort alone one can make a better life. With perseverance, effort and GOD s help one can become a sovereign on earth.Of course I am not saying one cannot be poor /have adversities with perseverance and effort , I am saying one needs to trust in GOD and keeps on regardless day in day out.
If they trust in GOD ,GOD is very much aware of each servant.
May the Lord help all His servants who fall in adversity.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
I don't know everyone got me right.... I am here not talking about middle-class people ... I am concerned about desperately poor people devoid of basic requirements but still living as a family and not even talking about homeless beggars who somehow get their food of the day by idling or sitting... But there are people who don't beg but work hard to survive in their entire life but still live with hunger and poverty... For Example... I saw a documentary screened on BBC Earth channel quite a while ago about Bangladesh... tears flowed from my eyes and I wept spontaneously, and I couldn't control it.. All their struggle was to find food on the table, and that battle for food is hectic and at the obvious risk of their lives... and they continue their lives ...
Are poor people created for the test of Rich people by Allah?
let me bring the below verses..1071 Have you seen the one who belies from/of the Direction (Al Deen)?
1072 So, for that is the one who drives away the orphan.
1073 And does not encourage the feeding of the poor.
1074 So woe to the one who connects (Musalleen).
1075 who are heedless of their connection (Salah).
1076 The ones who show
1077 And withhold helpThis chapter cannot be pointed to poor people who are themselves helpless..
The words 'The Direction and The Connection' are keywords here and target rich people..
The Direction (Al Deen) is to get connected and to get connected purely and not for show.. They seem like following the Directions of Allah but merely show..pls, don't complicate oppressed people with people who are in pathetic poverty.. I am not here to talk about oppressed ones..
So the destiny of such poverty strikes people is manifest.. it's a miserable life even whether they are happy or not.. -
Are poor people created for the test of Rich people by Allah?
I believe that life is a test for everyone, albeit in different ways. For the rich, the test may be in their generosity and compassion and you did mention the relevant strong verses. As for the poor, it might be in their patience and resilience. We simply can not comprehend to question God based on our own logic of accounts as we do not know the full scheme of God except what is told a little.
So, everyone will be judged based on their circumstances and actions. The rich are warned against neglecting the poor, and there is a strong emphasis on charity and social justice.In Chapter Al-Baqarah (2286), it is stated, 'Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear.' While it may seem that there are cases which challenge this verse, Jihan, each person's circumstances are known only to Allah. We cannot generalize or judge because only God can fully understand and judge them, taking into account all their struggles and efforts.
You mentioned that you are not referring to oppressed people. However, if we look at the situation holistically, it is the same question in all such cases. The answer lies in having faith in God, trusting in His wisdom. I, too, have many questions, but I understand that no one can answer them to the point of complete satisfaction. Perhaps God will provide answers in this world or in the Hereafter, if we are fortunate to see Him.
"The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand in rows, none will speak except him whom the Most Merciful allows, and he will say what is correct."
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I anticipate that I keep my words limited to the Heading.. laugh
Pls, avoid commenting Allah knows best to a point that has to be discussed … Allah knows and we don’t leave it without fathoming it out.. we are to reflect and apply our Allah-gifted faculties.. Just a reminder and don’t drag it as the main topic.. cool…
Needless to emphasize the HUMAN BEING is created to be TESTED. That’s the foundation of human life … But try to grasp what I am trying to extract here… Allah states Wealth, Children, spouse, etc. are tests for Man and it doesn’t mean when the children grow they don’t have their own tests or spouses don’t have test.. everyone has their own test regardless of who they are …. But as it states Children are tested for man and it directly means there is a huge potential for man that they have to go through various conundrums through children… Similarly, poor people are TESTs of RICH people (and vice versa ) because it is pronounced failing to assist poverty-stricken or impoverished people, has a huge impact on the overall results of the Hereafter lives of affluent people..Patience and perseverance apply to all regardless of whether rich or poor since patience and perseverance are not confined only to poverty. That I don’t agree with you … Patience and perseverance in every aspect of life.. But carefully look at what I am trying to abstract… Patience and perseverance do not exist every time in rich people’s lives but when they fall into any issues they need to apply these two elements.. But in poor people’s lives, it’s forever unless they become financially robust which is farfetched for most of those. Thus patience and perseverance are built on them by compulsion … for example.. if there is no food, then sleep hungry (patience and perseverance applied by force) or disobey(steal) the DIRECTION/DEEN thus deviating from ATRIBUTIONS of Allah…
If the destiny of a Disbelieving lifetime poor person and a Disbelieving lifetime Rich Person same in the Hereafter, then isn’t it discriminating that the poor person never had the pleasure of comfort in life neither in this world nor in the Hereafter?
Yousuf said… Allah delivered us from the Bedouin life… so everyone loves a comfortable life in a way…
Why does Allah stress charity? Wealth is a gift from Allah to certain people and not hoard it or keep it as their property but share it decently with others who need it.. Allah as a generous Lord expects that from his servants to whomever such wealth is bestowed.. it is disgusting to Allah to keep Allah’s wealth hoarded and not being distributed who are in real need. The Rich are responsible for this and not the poor.. Now who will be responsible for the below statement of Allah… Is it the Poor alone or poor and rich together or the Rich only?1730 “Indeed, your Lord extends provision for whom He wills and restricts . Indeed He is ever, concerning His servants, Acquainted and Seeing.”
1731 “And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great mistake.”Now the execution is done by the Poor person.. and the reason for the execution is poverty … and DIRECTION / DEEN is NOT turn toward / connected and the ATTRIBUTION of Allah is deviated.. Most importantly Allah RESTRICTS provision whomever He wills is stated in the verse… note that.. so poor on purpose.. Why? Allah wants to make others Rich not because they deserve it but because they want to streamline the wealth.. in a way Allah prefers a social system…
Significantly Allah says ‘We PROVIDE for them’… Indeed Allah has provided.. But it didn’t reach.. Did it? Somewhere something serious mistake has happened..Who is more worthy to be burned in Hellfire under this scenario ..? The disbelieving Poor who killed his children or the disbelieving Rich who never cared about it..? or both? If the poor are punished under these circumstances the same as the rich, would that look like a sound judgment..?
Does the needy person deserve hellfire while he never indulged in Allah’s material resources? In the animal kingdom, somehow everyone gets their portion because the distribution is not distracted..
So... Isn't the poor worse than the animals..?
Salam...
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I anticipate that I keep my words limited to the Heading.. laugh
Who is more worthy to be burned in Hellfire under this scenario ..? The disbelieving Poor who killed his children or the disbelieving Rich who never cared about it..? or both? If the poor are punished under these circumstances the same as the rich, would that look like a sound judgment..?
Does the needy person deserve hellfire while he never indulged in Allah’s material resources? In the animal kingdom, somehow everyone gets their portion because the distribution is not distracted..
So... Isn't the poor worse than the animals..?
Salam...
JKhan, it seems like you often start a thread, gather everyone's attention, and then wait for all the answers before posing your own thoughts which you could have stated before. It feels like you are leading us on a journey with your confident understanding. Just adding a touch of humor here.
Who is More Worthy of Hellfire?
I have the simple understanding that everyone will be judged according to their actions and circumstances, while we can not fully grasp the extent of HIS justice.
6164
Say, "Is it other than Allāh I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."Does the Needy Deserve Hellfire?
As for a needy person, if not indulging in sin despite their hardships, has a different standing than a disbelieving rich person who hoards wealth and neglects the poor. Comparing the poor to animals overlooks the dignity and resilience that God has provided to man and you should know that
"And We have certainly honored the children of Adam." (Quran 1770)
"Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, as much as an atom's weight." (Quran 440)
This honor is not diminished by poverty. Human life, regardless of material wealth, is valuable and judged by moral and spiritual standards.
