Muhammad identity
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Salam to all,
What do you guys say about this. What possible can be the refutation
Summary of the video
https//youtu.be/-uMw65vRrUs
The etymology and meaning of the name Muhammad
The name Muhammad has a Christian root, meaning "bless," but in Arabic, it has a different implication, with the name having four consonants (mimim) and originally no vowels in the 7th century
0428.The earliest manuscripts of the Quran are only consonantal texts, with 16 letters and no dots, which were added later to change the meaning of words
0650.The name Muhammad, when written without vowels, is left with the four consonants "mhmd," which would be pronounced as "Mamed" or "Memed" in English, rather than the commonly used "Muhammad"
0712.Discussion on the historical basis of Islamic characters and Muhammad's identity
The question of Muhammad's identity and the historical basis of Islamic characters is a topic of discussion, with some arguing that these characters have no historical antecedence
0602.A conference, the Tower conference, is mentioned, where the speaker will be discussing the topic of Muhammad's identity and the facts surrounding it
0516.The speaker's grandfather had mentioned that Islam is not based on real characters and that the name Muhammad has a Christian root, which the speaker had forgotten until reminded by the current conversation
0417.The speaker is excited to discuss the topic of Muhammad's identity and the facts surrounding it, which they believe are remarkable and hard to walk away from
0540.The meaning and origins of "Mahmed" in different languages and its connection to the Messiah
The word "Mahmed" is mentioned 11 times in the Old Testament in Hebrew, with the same four letters used in Arabic, Syriac, and Aramaic, meaning "the praised one" or "the worthy of praise"
0751.The word "Mahmed" is found in the Ugaritic language, dating back to 1400 BC, and is also mentioned in the Song of Solomon 516, referring to someone who is "altogether lovely"
0818.In the 4th century, St. Ambrose referred to the "Mahmed" as the anointed one, the Messiah, who was yet to come, while Christians were waiting for the Messiah to return, and his name is Jesus Christ
0845.The "Mahmed" was always associated with the Messiah, and by the 7th century, it was believed that the Mahmed would be the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ
0921.Muawiyah's Christian affiliation and the evidence from coins and inscriptions
Muawiyah, the first Caliph, issued a coin in 663 with his image, holding a cross and with a cross above his head, indicating that he was a Trinitarian Christian
0933.The inscription on the dam of Th, written in Greek, refers to Muawiyah as the leader of the Believers, with a cross in the upper left-hand corner, further indicating that he was a Christian
1041.There is no evidence of a person named Muhammad or Muhmed in the south, but there are many references to "Mmads" in coins and inscriptions, suggesting that the name "Muhammad" may not have existed at that time
1012.A coin from around 30 years after Muhammad's death features three crosses on the front and the letter M, which is worth 40, on the back, along with the letters "mimim" and "dog," which are believed to refer to "Mahmed Y Jesus Christ"
1103.The coin was minted during the rule of Muawiya, a Christian who was in power from 660 to 680, and the inscriptions on the coin reflect his anti-trinitarian Christian beliefs
1128.Abd al-Malik's anti-trinitarian beliefs and the inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock
Abd al-Malik, who succeeded Muawiya, was also an anti-trinitarian Christian and built the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, which features inscriptions attacking the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity
1203.The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock, which date back to the 7th century, include phrases such as "Say not three, for God is one and he has no son" and "God does not beget nor is he begotten," which are similar to verses in the Quran
1228.The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock are believed to be an attack on Byzantine Christianity and trinitarianism, and the reference to "the praised one" is thought to refer to Jesus Christ, not Muhammad
1254.The pronunciation of "Muhammad" and its possible connection to Jesus Christ
In some Islamic prayers, the name "Muhammad" is pronounced in a way that is similar to the way it was pronounced in the 7th century, and some common Islamic names, such as Mahmud, are derived from the same structure as the name "Muhammad"
1336.The idea that the name "Muhammad" may actually refer to Jesus Christ, rather than the prophet of Islam, is seen as a possible explanation for the defensive and offensive nature of some Islamic apologetics, which often focus on criticizing Christianity
1427.The nature of Islamic apologetics and its focus on criticizing Christianity
Many Muslims do not understand the foundations of their own religion and instead focus on attacking Christianity, which may be due to the fact that Islam is based on a series of lies twisted from the original scriptures
1455.The creation of Islam can be seen as another lie of the enemy to pervert the truth of the word of God, and it should be considered a cult of Christianity rather than a world religion
1548.The creation of Islam as a cult of Christianity and John of Damascus's writings on the Ishmaelites
John of Damascus wrote a book called "The Christian Heresy" in which he discussed the heresy of the Ishmaelites, who were the Arabs that controlled the Umayyad Empire
1607.The Ishmaelites did not have a prophet or a revelation, unlike the Jews and Christians who had both, and they controlled a vast amount of land from Spain to India
1656.The Umayyad Empire was in contention with the Byzantine Empire, which was a trinitarian Christian power, and the trinitarians were waiting for the Messiah to reappear
1721.The Umayyad Empire's conflict with the Byzantine Empire and the introduction of the Shahada
The antitrinitarians, led by Abd al-Malik, built the Dome of the Rock in 691, which featured inscriptions without dots or vowels, and introduced the Shahada as an attack against the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity
1757.The Shahada was also introduced on coins by Abd al-Malik, and John of Damascus wrote "The Heresy of the Ishmaelites" in response to the growing threat of Islam
1814.Muhammad's identity and its connection to the concept of "mahmad"
Muhammad's identity is tied to the concept of the "mahmad," a prophetic figure expected by the people of Abraham, and this is why Muslims claim that Muhammad is the fulfillment of this expectation
1859.The name "Muhammad" is in contradistinction to "mmed," with the latter referring to the anointed one, and the former referring to a prophet
1909.The concept of "jah" and its evolution
The concept of "jah" originally referred to a state of ignorance in one's own heart, but it was later reformed to refer to a people called "jahia"
1929.The composition of the Quran and its borrowing from other sources
The Quran is composed of stories and writings borrowed from Jewish fables, apocryphal writings, lectionaries, homilies, and hymns to Jesus Christ, with the name "Jesus Christ" replaced by "Nabi" and "Ras"
1955.The development of Muhammad's biography and the later documentation of Islamic saints
The backstory of Muhammad's biography took 70 years to create, and it was first written down by Ibn Hisham in 833
2022.The saints of Islam were not written down until 40 years after Muhammad's biography was established
2032.The lack of early biographical sources for Muhammad and the origins of the Hadith
There is no biography of Muhammad from the 9th century, and the Hadith from Sahih Muslim, Ibn Majah, or Sahih Bukhari do not exist from that time period
2040.The origins of these documents are now known, and they do not come from the 9th century, but this information will be discussed at a later
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Salaam,
Does this not demonstrate that, even with the rise of Islam, Christians were permitted to freely practice their religion, including the use of crosses on writings, coins, and other items? Similarly, followers of other faiths, such as Persian fire worshipers (Zoroastrians), were able to retain their religious symbols on currency, which remained in circulation for many years to avoid disrupting the economy. Likewise, the Qur'an was primarily transmitted orally from the time of its revelation until today, with early manuscripts serving as memory aids. These manuscripts were distributed to the provinces accompanied by a reciter who would orally transmit the text, some even containing specific markings, as I have shown below.
Arabic Text (Qur'an 3144) "and Muhammad is not but a messenger"
وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلَّا رَسُولٌhttps//i.postimg.cc/W12YW43k/muhamad.jpg
(8th line from the bottom)—Muhammad (مُحَمَّدٌ) appears in the manuscript "Emanet 13," dated around 650 CE. Source https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/manuscripts/59/page/24v?sura=3&verse=144This coexistence is also evident in documents like PERF 555, PERF 556, PERF 557, and PERF 558, which include receipts for sheep marked with both crosses and Bismillah.
References
PVindob 519 (dated 641 CE) Islamic Awareness - PVindob 519
https//www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/papyri/pvindob519Early inscriptions (dated 662-63 CE) Islamic Awareness - Hammat"
https//www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/hammatPERF 558 (dated 25th April, 643 CE) Islamic Awareness
https//www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/papyri/perf558https//i.postimg.cc/mrjVwxYg/PERF-558-April-25-643-CE.jpg
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Hello,
I didn't watch the video itself because I don't like watching videos, so I'll be basing on your notes and transcripts below.
Basically, the guy has a couple of good points as well as flawed arguments.The etymology and meaning of the name Muhammad
The name Muhammad has a Christian root, meaning "bless," but in Arabic, it has a different implication, with the name having four consonants (mimim) and originally no vowels in the 7th century
0428.What is a "Christian root" ?
I mean, we are mixing language discussion, here Arabic, with religious discussion, here "Christian".
Does not make sense to me.If he meant "Syriac" instead of "Christian", then the root HMD in Syriac points to "to desire", check "xmd" here https//cal.huc.edu/ (the CAL).
So MHMD in Syriac would mean something like "the one that is desired".Nothing related to blessing.
On the other hand, oldest Syriac writings in the 7th CE testifying the raise of the Arabs mention "MHMT", not "MHMD", and the CAL does not give something meaningful for "xmT".
It can also be shown (an article of Ian David Morris that was online at a time but is not anymore, unfortunately) that the Syriac accent would likely pronounce the Arabic MHMD as MHMT, with an emphatic T.
A different mechanism, also mentionned by Ian D. Morris, would also lead Persians to pronounce MHMT instead of MHMD, and in the 7th CE Persian-Arab coins, it is written MHMT in Persian.
The earliest manuscripts of the Quran are only consonantal texts, with 16 letters and no dots, which were added later to change the meaning of words
0650.Baseless assertion.
The name Muhammad, when written without vowels, is left with the four consonants "mhmd," which would be pronounced as "Mamed" or "Memed" in English, rather than the commonly used "Muhammad"
0712.English pronounciation is irrelevant in this discussion.
Discussion on the historical basis of Islamic characters and Muhammad's identity
The question of Muhammad's identity and the historical basis of Islamic characters is a topic of discussion, with some arguing that these characters have no historical antecedence
0602.There are some historical theories that Muhammad never existed, but the consensus is that a character bearing this name did exist.
However, it is fairly obvious that his life was certainly different than the narrative in the Sirat.
Note my personal theory is that Muhammad in the 7th CE, who was the first Arab ruler over Arabia, did certainly exist, but not only he wasn't the Messenger of Qur'an, but also Qur'an was written against him, or maybe agains Abu Bakr.
Only later, under Abd al-Malik, the figure of Muhammad and the anonymous one of the Qur'an messenger were merged and four verses added to Qur'an bearing the name Muhammad, at a time when Qur'an was not frozen yet.This is my personal theory, based on my reading of Qur'an crossed with old chronicles.
The meaning and origins of "Mahmed" in different languages and its connection to the Messiah
The word "Mahmed" is mentioned 11 times in the Old Testament in Hebrew, with the same four letters used in Arabic, Syriac, and Aramaic, meaning "the praised one" or "the worthy of praise"
0751.There is no "Mahmed" in Old Testament, see https//biblehub.com/hebrew/2530.htm and https//biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_2531.htm
Also the meaning in Hebrew and Aramaic / Syriac (Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic) is to desire, not to praise as in Arabic.
The word "Mahmed" is found in the Ugaritic language, dating back to 1400 BC, and is also mentioned in the Song of Solomon 516, referring to someone who is "altogether lovely"
0818.Ugaritic is too old and had disappeared since long to be meaningful in this discussion.
In the 4th century, St. Ambrose referred to the "Mahmed" as the anointed one, the Messiah, who was yet to come, while Christians were waiting for the Messiah to return, and his name is Jesus Christ
0845.Reference would be welcome.
The "Mahmed" was always associated with the Messiah, and by the 7th century, it was believed that the Mahmed would be the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ
0921.Reference would be welcome, otherwise it's baseless.
Muawiyah's Christian affiliation and the evidence from coins and inscriptions
Muawiyah, the first Caliph, issued a coin in 663 with his image, holding a cross and with a cross above his head, indicating that he was a Trinitarian Christian
0933.The inscription on the dam of Th, written in Greek, refers to Muawiyah as the leader of the Believers, with a cross in the upper left-hand corner, further indicating that he was a Christian
1041.Mu'awiya certainly wasn't Muslim in the today's meaning of "Muslim" and had a faith closer to Christianity than Islam. This is evidenced from the Maronite Chronicle.
But he wasn't Trinitarian. We have administrative papyrii written under his rule, some in Arabic and Greek, and never the Trinitarian credo is mentioned.
Also he is never mentioned in the acts of the Constantinople Council in 680, while he fought the Byzantines two years before.
If he were a Trinitarian Christian, surely he would have been mentioned there.Also, Mu'awiya wasn't "Caliph", he was "Amir al-Muminin", Commender of the Faithfuls. The title Caliph came later with Abd al-Malik.
There is no evidence of a person named Muhammad or Muhmed in the south, but there are many references to "Mmads" in coins and inscriptions, suggesting that the name "Muhammad" may not have existed at that time
1012.Again, historical consensus is that Muhammad did exist.
A coin from around 30 years after Muhammad's death features three crosses on the front and the letter M, which is worth 40, on the back, along with the letters "mimim" and "dog," which are believed to refer to "Mahmed Y Jesus Christ"
1103.Either incorrect or a misinterpretation of some coins. Evidence welcome.
The coin was minted during the rule of Muawiya, a Christian who was in power from 660 to 680, and the inscriptions on the coin reflect his anti-trinitarian Christian beliefs
1128.So, according to the video, Mu'awiya was Trinitarian or anti-Trinitarian ? Or maybe a typo in your notes ?
Abd al-Malik's anti-trinitarian beliefs and the inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock
Abd al-Malik, who succeeded Muawiya, was also an anti-trinitarian Christian and built the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, which features inscriptions attacking the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity
1203.Abd al-Malik didn't directly succeed to Mu'awiya.
The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock, which date back to the 7th century, include phrases such as "Say not three, for God is one and he has no son" and "God does not beget nor is he begotten," which are similar to verses in the Quran
1228.Yes.
The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock are believed to be an attack on Byzantine Christianity and trinitarianism, and the reference to "the praised one" is thought to refer to Jesus Christ, not Muhammad
1254.If Muhammad did exist, as most historians believe, this inscription refers to him, not Jesus.
The pronunciation of "Muhammad" and its possible connection to Jesus Christ
In some Islamic prayers, the name "Muhammad" is pronounced in a way that is similar to the way it was pronounced in the 7th century, and some common Islamic names, such as Mahmud, are derived from the same structure as the name "Muhammad"
1336.Arabs in the beginning of the 8th CE, and likely before, did not pronounce the name MU-HAM-MAD, as Muslims do today.
At that time, it was pronounced Maamet.How do we know that ?
From Arab-Greek papyrii, like this one https//www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/papyri/enlp11Here we can see that in Greek, the name was transliterated into MAAMET.
It is not because of Greek alphabet vs. Arabic alphabet, because Greeks today do not name him MAAMET but name him after something close to today's Muslim pronounciation ΜωάμεθSo really, the Arabs in the 7th CE and 8th CE said MAAMET, or maybe MA'AMET.
The idea that the name "Muhammad" may actually refer to Jesus Christ, rather than the prophet of Islam, is seen as a possible explanation for the defensive and offensive nature of some Islamic apologetics, which often focus on criticizing Christianity
1427.I would say it's primarily because both religions compete for the souls of mankind, not because of some lost narratives.
The nature of Islamic apologetics and its focus on criticizing Christianity
Many Muslims do not understand the foundations of their own religion and instead focus on attacking Christianity, which may be due to the fact that Islam is based on a series of lies twisted from the original scriptures
1455.There is some truth behind this.
The creation of Islam can be seen as another lie of the enemy to pervert the truth of the word of God, and it should be considered a cult of Christianity rather than a world religion
1548.Purely apologetics.
The creation of Islam as a cult of Christianity and John of Damascus's writings on the Ishmaelites
John of Damascus wrote a book called "The Christian Heresy" in which he discussed the heresy of the Ishmaelites, who were the Arabs that controlled the Umayyad Empire
1607.It's a misunderstanding of John of Damascus from the author of the video, but there is some truth behind this.
The Ishmaelites did not have a prophet or a revelation, unlike the Jews and Christians who had both, and they controlled a vast amount of land from Spain to India
1656.We don't know if the Arabs at that time claimed themselves to be "Ishmaelites".
It is only the Christians chroniclers who used this word and often in contempt.Later on, Muslims claimed to descend from Ishmael, but it might also be an apologetic claim.
The Umayyad Empire was in contention with the Byzantine Empire, which was a trinitarian Christian power, and the trinitarians were waiting for the Messiah to reappear
1721.Not only the trinitarians, but all sects.
The Umayyad Empire's conflict with the Byzantine Empire and the introduction of the Shahada
The antitrinitarians, led by Abd al-Malik, built the Dome of the Rock in 691, which featured inscriptions without dots or vowels, and introduced the Shahada as an attack against the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity
1757.Well, as a matter of fact, Abd al-Malik surely cared little of the Byzantine Empire.
The Byzantine Empire wasn't a threat to him at that time.On the other hand, Abd al-Malik had to face a lot of revolts, that of Ibn Zubayr, that of the Kharijites, and so on.
So it's more likely for internal reasons that the Dome of the Rock was built.
The Shahada was also introduced on coins by Abd al-Malik, and John of Damascus wrote "The Heresy of the Ishmaelites" in response to the growing threat of Islam
1814.The Heresy of the Ishmaelites in the book of John of Damascus is only a chapter among many ones dedicated to the heresies.
We focus on it because it's intriguing nature about early Islam but it certainly wasn't the core of the book.Muhammad's identity and its connection to the concept of "mahmad"
Muhammad's identity is tied to the concept of the "mahmad," a prophetic figure expected by the people of Abraham, and this is why Muslims claim that Muhammad is the fulfillment of this expectation
1859.References about this "mahmad" outside would be welcome.
Otherwise it's baseless.The name "Muhammad" is in contradistinction to "mmed," with the latter referring to the anointed one, and the former referring to a prophet
1909.Unclear
The concept of "jah" and its evolution
The concept of "jah" originally referred to a state of ignorance in one's own heart, but it was later reformed to refer to a people called "jahia"
1929.Unclear.
The composition of the Quran and its borrowing from other sources
The Quran is composed of stories and writings borrowed from Jewish fables, apocryphal writings, lectionaries, homilies, and hymns to Jesus Christ, with the name "Jesus Christ" replaced by "Nabi" and "Ras"
1955.Based on an overall misunderstanding of Qur'an and greatly helped by the fact that Islam does not understand what Qur'an actually says.
The development of Muhammad's biography and the later documentation of Islamic saints
The backstory of Muhammad's biography took 70 years to create, and it was first written down by Ibn Hisham in 833
2022.It is likely that Ibn Hisham, who based himself on his master Ibn Ishaq, did not create all the biography out of the box.
There were likely oral narratives circulating among religious scholars.The saints of Islam were not written down until 40 years after Muhammad's biography was established
2032.Same as above.
The lack of early biographical sources for Muhammad and the origins of the Hadith
There is no biography of Muhammad from the 9th century, and the Hadith from Sahih Muslim, Ibn Majah, or Sahih Bukhari do not exist from that time period
2040.Well, it is unlikely that all hadiths were composed after 9th CE.
There surely have been a core of them that were already in use in the 7th CE.
There is some consensus about this fact among historians.The origins of these documents are now known, and they do not come from the 9th century, but this information will be discussed at a later
Without clear references, this is baseless.
Now some general remarks on my side.
There are indeed concerns regarding the name Muhammad.
First of all, there is the issue of its early pronunciation, Maamet, that doesn't fully match the written form.
And there is the issue of its meaning from litteral Arabic, "the praiseworthy" or "whom is praised", this is completely meaningless if we accept to face the reality.
Even its cognate meanings in Syriac, like "the one who is desired" are also meaningless.I have another hypothesis that better explains the early pronunciation, the earliest coins, and also bears a more meaningful signification.
Another remark is that the Christians, every time they see something that looks like a bit like a Messiah, they cry out "Jesus !", while Jews also are waiting for a Messiah, although not like Jesus.
It's remarkable that the pitch of the video is motivated by the desire to drag Muslims to Christianity, and especially evangelical Christianity, rather than by mere historical truth. -
Salam Bro BH,
He contends that MHMD is known in the Old Testament and New Testament to be not Muhammad of Islam
Salaam,
So what? What exactly did it say? Where exactly in the Biblical text did it appear, and did it include phrases like “بِسْمِ الله” (Bismi Allāh) or “مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله” (Muḥammadun Rasūlu Allāh)?
https//www.middleeasteye.net/discover/coins-muslims-islam-seventh-century-arabia
Likewise, why so focused on Jay Smith and the other person dressed in Arab garb, whose main purpose is preaching—or rather ranting and braying—to uninformed Christians and so-called Muslims who have never read or understood basic Quranic concepts, much like many of the moronic, cowardly spammers on this site who are delusional, disgusting, and infatuated with fetishes more interested in seeking attention to themselves rather than fostering genuine understanding, an issue compounded by poor moderation. The moderators, overlook these issues unless their own posts are affected, share responsibility for this environment.