[2:106] - the abrogation of the Quran by the Quran ? rhetoric analysis
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Hello Iyyaka.
I read your post to try and see a reason for the length and ponder to the contents.
Do you think the subject of "Abrogation of Qoran by Qoran" needs more to say about it than these few sentencesGOD does not give His words ,then abrogate some of them. By definition GOD is all knowledgeable and when He says something it is complete and true and will never need abrogation. Every word He says is menat to be said and will never need to be changed.
Or what is the use of abrogating a verse to bring another verse exactly the same?
Or what is the use of abrogating a verse and bringing another verse better than it?
What GOD has brought in the first place is the best of all the words in there..Allah Nazzala Ahsana Al Hadith... GOD has sent the "Best Hadith " Every word and every verse are the best that GOD brought for us from His complete knowledge.
Abrogation contradicts GOD s trait of The all knowledgeable and perfect being.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi good logic,
I read your post to try and see a reason for the length and ponder to the contents.
Do you think the subject of "Abrogation of Qoran by Qoran" needs more to say about it than these few sentencesFirst Thank you for the reading effort.
Providing arguments seems normal to me in order to arrive at the interpretation of verse in a scientific approach ; for such an important verse that is very often used to argue for the legal principle of abrogation intended by the Quran.
I am not saying that abrogation does not exist in the Quran, but I am saying that this verse, when placed in its literary context, does not concern this subject.
Moreover, I have spared you hours of work dissecting the words and assembling them into a coherent whole. Finally, it seemed interesting to me to demonstrate here the scientific approach that I often present here (for those who are interested by the rhetoric analysis and who wish to meditate deeply on the text), without going into all the exegetical details.GOD does not give His words ,then abrogate some of them. By definition GOD is all knowledgeable and when He says something it is complete and true and will never need abrogation. Every word He says is menat to be said and will never need to be changed.
all knowledgeable yes but all power also and nothing can limited his power and all wisdom also.
Do you think God cannot revise His own words?
The Quran itself provides a counter-argument to this statement. Consider Surah 73, which consists of two parts- in the Meccan context
- in the Medinan context.
The Prophet is initially commanded to stay awake for half the night ("Stand the night except for a little, Half of it, or a little less than that...", but this order is later replaced by another, better and similar one "So read what is made easy of the Qur'an". However, nothing prohibits the Prophet, and therefore us, from occasionally staying awake for half the night.
Context and Explanation
The change in the commandment reflects Allah's wisdom and consideration for the changing circumstances of the Muslim community. In Mecca, when the Muslim community was small and the Quranic revelation was brief, it was feasible to recite the entire Quran during night prayer. However, as the community grew and faced new challenges in Medina, including illness, travel for livelihood, and fighting in the cause of God, the earlier strict command was relaxed.
This adaptation demonstrates Allah's mercy and understanding of human limitations, rather than a contradiction or inability to maintain His word. It shows that divine guidance can be flexible and responsive to the needs and capabilities of believersThen, God has many qualities. Which quality is specifically mentioned in the context of ? Answer "Did you not know that God is capable of all things?"
Finally, abrogation does not necessarily mean annulment. Abrogation notably has more limited effects it only applies to the future for a particular context wich involves. On the other hand, as a general rule, annulment has a retroactive effect.
Or what is the use of abrogating a verse to bring another verse exactly the same?
the word "exactly" that you mention above is not the proper word - "similar" fits better (for the word "mithli" in . For example you will find a similarity in the story of Joseph between the Bible and the Quran, but not a story that is identical in every aspects..You can, for instance, make comparisons and look for resemblances that link them together.
Abrogation contradicts GOD s trait of The all knowledgeable and perfect being.
Your saying based on your own conception of God. But does this definition truly and fully correspond to the one that can be found in the Quran?
Peace be upon you.
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Peace Iyyaka.
There is no abrogation of the Qoran .
GOD calls Qoran complete and His words as complete in truth and law.GOD may substitute one scripture by another- for example Torah by Injeel and both by Qoran- but each scripture was a complete whole . No interchange or abrogation needed for the verses.
وَإِذا بَدَّلنا ءايَةً مَكانَ ءايَةٍ وَاللَّهُ أَعلَمُ بِما يُنَزِّلُ قالوا إِنَّما أَنتَ مُفتَرٍ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ
When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this- Qoran/scripture- up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.قُل نَزَّلَهُ روحُ القُدُسِ مِن رَبِّكَ بِالحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَهُدًى وَبُشرىٰ لِلمُسلِمينَ
Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it down- Qoran/the whole scripture of Qoran- from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the Muslimeen"Confirmed here
وَاتلُ ما أوحِىَ إِلَيكَ مِن كِتابِ رَبِّكَ لا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمٰتِهِ وَلَن تَجِدَ مِن دونِهِ مُلتَحَدًا
Utlu/read/recite... what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace bro good logic,
The subject concerned verse , as a verse authorising the doctrine of the abrogating/repealed according to the traditional view.
Is your interpretation the same as mine ? If not, can you provide detailed arguments from the text? What is your literal translation of this verse? Thank you in advance for your clarification.Peace be upon you.
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Peace Iyyaka.
2106 is not talking about verses of Qoran. It is talking about signs/miracles that GOD provided for Moses when He send him with a message to Pharaoh and Beni Israel.
ما نَنسَخ مِن ءايَةٍ أَو نُنسِها نَأتِ بِخَيرٍ مِنها أَو مِثلِها أَلَم تَعلَم أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَىءٍ قَديرٌ
When we abrogate any sign/ miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better sign/ miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that God is Omnipotent?Ayat in this verse cannot mean verse from the scripture/Qoran. Why?
GOD does not send a verse then abrogate it/make it to be forgotten!! and send another verse "Mithlihi" like it/similar. It does not make any sense.
Or send one better than it. GOD has already sent the best Hadith ,all Qoran . Every verse is already the best verse from GOD the all knowledgeable.However GOD has sent signs/ miracles with Moses and changed/ renewed signs/ miracles when they kept disbelieving -similar or bigger signs/miracles-.
These signs /Miracles of Moses will be forgotten after a time.
Same was done with Jesus, Miracles were disbelieved and forgotten after a time..And with most messengers. GOD is saying to those receiving Qoran 2108
أَم تُريدونَ أَن تَسـَٔلوا رَسولَكُم كَما سُئِلَ موسىٰ مِن قَبلُ وَمَن يَتَبَدَّلِ الكُفرَ بِالإيمٰنِ فَقَد ضَلَّ سَواءَ السَّبيلِ
Do you wish to demand of your messenger what was demanded of Moses in the past?( do you want signs/miracles?) Anyone who chooses disbelief, instead of belief, has truly strayed off the right path.Nothing to do with abrogating or changing/replacing verses of Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi good logic,
2106 is not talking about verses of Qoran. It is talking about signs/miracles that GOD provided for Moses when He send him with a message to Pharaoh and Beni Israel.
In verbs nansakh and nunsi are imperfect verbs (continious actions - not finished yet).
Referring to the miracles from the time of Moses, these verbs would be in the past tense, as in with the verb "su'ila". How do you respond to this grammatical objection?NB
- I translated the word "'âyatin" in as "message" and not specifically as "a verse of the quran".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Iyyaka.
You say ,quote
"In verbs nansakh and nunsi are imperfect verbs (continious actions - not finished yet).
Referring to the miracles from the time of Moses, these verbs would be in the past tense, as in with the verb "su'ila". How do you respond to this grammatical objection?Continuous means past present and future.
signs/Miracles of GOD have been continuous before Moses and after him. In the context of the verses before and after 2106 GOD was talking about Beni Israel of Moses.
The verse is also general and means continuously people ask signs/miracles from their messengers.GOD is basically saying He is capable of bringing similar or bigger Ayat sign /miracle with past ,present and future messengers;Ayat can mean any of theses- verse, sign ,miracle/ lesson..-
In 2106 the context can only mean sign /miracle.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi Good logic,
AS i said at the beginning of this post, i am NOT in "a linear-atomistic" approach. Rarely is attention given to the literary context surrounding a verse." (like majority of traditional exegesis proceeded as yourself here).
In 2106 the context can only mean sign /miracle.
NO miracle here, i invite you to ponder or meditate more carefully the section , so you will have a better understanding of verse in his global and textual context.
Of course this semantic block (104-110) is not isolated from the whole surah 2, and it is also included in other sections of this long surah 2. (i don't have time to put all the details here -> cf. my pdf on my website).The basic methodology in history for understanding a discourse can be summarized in three inseparable and essential elements that must be present and function together
1 - a moment (1),
2 - a place (2),
3 - a human group (3).
In other words, it's about answering these three questions
When? (1)
Where? (2)
Who? (3).
Let's revisit our semantic block (104-110) and answer these questions
(1) When? After 622 CE, at the beginning of the Medinan period, when theological and doctrinal conflicts still existed with Medinan Jews who did not recognize Muhammad as a prophet.
(2) Where? In Medina
(3) Who? The believers who were formerly Jews converted to Islam. The discourse warns them about their doubts and CORRECTS some of their statements (cf. context 2104 and 446). The "favor/good khayrin" mentioned in verse , which is envied by the People of the Book, obviously refers to a Quranic revelation.-> "The above parenthetic sentence constitutes the Qur'anic refutation of the Biblical statement that Solomon had been guilty of idolatrous practices (see I Kings xi, 1-10), as well as of the legend that he was the originator of the magic arts popularly associated with his name." (Muhammad ASAD).
-> "do not say...BUT say..."
-> The Quran as a conclusion is a CRITERION to corrects sometimes former messages
Peace be upon you.
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Peace Iyyaka.
I agree with you that the Quran as a conclusion is a CRITERION to correct sometimes former wrongly interpreted or corrupted messages.But Qoran as a whole does not/ has no abrogation of its verses.
Those who teach such a thing have fabricated abrogation to explain their contradictions in their interpretation of the text.
Every verse sent is there, is there for a good reason and is a part of the whole of the book."La Tabdeela Likalimati Allah" "Wa Tammat Kalimatu Rabbika Sidken Wa Adla/Hikma"
No change to GOD s words. All words are part of the Qoran that came over 15 hundred years ago.When GOD changes or corrects anything according to His knowledge of what happened , He lets us know about it in the new scripture. But that scripture stays intact. There is no mention of verses of Qoran being abrogated in Qoran.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Hi good logic,
But Qoran as a whole does not/ has no abrogation of its verses.
You were really focus on that point.
As I mention at the beginning of this post, my conclusion from the textual analysis of the Quranic verse does not justify the theory of abrogation of the Quran by the Quran itself, as suggested by tradition. Therefore, we agree on this point. handshakePeace be upon you.