Qibla???
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Peace jkhan, welcome back to the forum handshake
Your translations are a bit cumbersome, why not choose one word without explanations.
Let your interpretations stand on their own and let the readers reach their own understandings
of the ayats.God bless you
peace
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Jkhan,
In your translations, you give multiple words for a single word, doesnt make it more readable.
Also You want Quran to be applied to modern society as it is, so you are replacing new suitable words which i think is difficult to grasp the right meaning behind these verses.I believe Quran was for a particular society and came in a particular period and need to be read in those contexts.
About Qibla, Each community consider some elements to be more valuable and construct rituals and monuments to represent those,
as a soceity the Arabs needed a qibla, so the Quran verses shows or gives a qibla for the newly formed Arab muslim community which i think the Masjid Al Haram,
which represent the sacred duty of doing good and selfless sacrifice for the benefit of the community.Qibla can represent the knowledge, wealth, a mountain peak representing greatness of god, or a prophets birth place or of some importance, etc.
Jews Christians and other have their own Qiblas, but Quran suggests a different thing for the early muslim community.Communities do not change their thoughts about what is great or important,
example in Indian religions,there are two major sects, some religion follow the goodness/happiness part of God, like wealth and strength and always aim for those,
but some others follow entirely opposite things like sacrificing, giving away, fasting, pain rituals like piercing, walking on fire embers, walking long distance to temples as rituals.
They think these benefit them in some way.Here God is being seen in two entirely different ways, one in happiness and another indirectly in difficulties and sacrifice,
which is correct? depends on many things like the culture and even the individual status of people, what they needed and how they view whats important.So Quran says, each one follow their own qibla, and here it associates the qibla also as a symbol that shows which messenger the people were following before,
like the past messengers who brought the rituals and religion.Hi ...
First, remember that translations are not the Quran; it is every individual's grasp of it. The reason I use synonyms is to convey my understanding in multiple ways so the reader will grasp it. I can definitely, use one direct meaning of every single word of Al Quran, for instance for 'Shahr Ramadhan', I would say directly 'Notoriety of Ordeal'.
As I said you will not understand it cus you need time and utmost effort to understand it. Can someone understand Arabic Quran just cus he is an Arab or he knows Arabic? No. even if he tries a lifetime of dishonesty, he won't comprehend it.
The million dollar question is, how will one understand my exact translation of Quran while they never understood Al Quran direct verses itself?Brother Amin, your claim is meaningless. Bring your translation or tell me which translation on this Earth is correct in your view or tell me what you understood all this time in your life when it comes to verses of Qibla (2142-150). Or bring that understanding and share, so let's see how they make sense to anyone.
Honestly, none of the translations, I have ever encountered made sense to me of Qibla verses. Cus I always felt Allah spoke something else not what they depicted.I hope I answered brother Hawk as well... Thank you for welcoming me..
Meanwhile.. sorry my both brothers. I don't reply to SALAM of yours.. I have realized that SALAM is just traditional junk..
The real meaning of SALAM has couple of concepts.. 1, when the person who says salam should notice in the person he receives it some concerns or worries.. 2 And the dispatcher of salam should have spiritual or material solution for the receiver's concern.. So say salam.. And means .. RELAX or feel free..
if you take any example from Al Quran, you will notice these two criteria are meant by stating salam directly to someone, even if Allah said it or people said it.. You have to reflect it and just reading my reply won't work out.Meanwhile @everyone,,
I am not quranist, quraniyoon or submitter etc.. I should be crazy to claim so.. I am a sincere student of Al Quran tirelessly and have realized I have to acknowledge the commands of my Lord and abide by it to be successful in life and in the progression life to come.. Every researcher of Quran is using his own brain, so it is natural there will be differences in opinion, but when Allah guides, they will be uniform. SIRAT AL MUSTAQEEM.. Path of the Uniformity.. But while learning it is natural they encounter differences but ultimately, they should end up in uniformity to what Lord SPOKE, otherwise Allah has discarded him knowing he is not worthy be guided. -
Hello,,,
Extreme dedication of effort coupled with Allah's Mercy, opened my eyes to this crucial word in Al Quran. Yes .. Qibla.. No one will understand the Arabic Quran unless you are dedicated to honestly seeking guidance from Allah. And I am sure 99% of you won't get my translations below like you never got what is written in Arabic unless you deeply ponder with the Help of Allah.
Qibla = Centralization/focal acceptance (for the purpose of governing authorities)
The verses below are about constituting a Nation as a foundation with the principles of Quran for everyone to abide by whoever is under the Nation’s influence/authority. It is like each country has its central government. Followers of the Quran, have reached a point where they are able to apply Quran’s social law to the public. It seems like they were under the law of some other adjacent nation but not anymore since they have a community solely depending on Allah’s guidance through Quran they are considerable in number as well. Social laws of Quran cannot be applied if not all believers are united as a Nation. There can be disbelievers under the nation, but first believers UNITY should be established to establish a Nation under their influence. By looking at the view of the audience, a party was against the centralization of their own and willing to continue with what they had from the adjacent nation that they practiced. But Allah wanted to establish a Nation. Let’s see the glaring verses.
2142 Will say the audience/viewers/onlookers (shufah) from the mankind/people, what defended/united (walla) them for their centralization/ focal acceptance (Qibla) which they were against it? Say, for Allah/The Savior the enlightenment and the benightedness. He guides one who acts/causes to a consistent/uniform path.
2143 And thusly, we made you an astute foundation (umma) to have involvements (shuhada) upon the mankind/people and be the Dispatcher(rasool) an involver on you, and not, We made the centralization / focal acceptance (al qibla) except to reveal who abides by/follow the Dispatcher (rasool) from who turns back on its consequences. And that became, certainly extreme except for those guided by Allah/The Savior. ….”
2144 Noticed obviously, regressing of your attention/focus (wajh) through the longing (sama). So, We shall surely unite/defend/form centralization (qibla) by approving it. So, form/support your focus on retaining/binding (shatr) the inviolable state of acknowledgment (al masjid al haram), and wherever you were then form/support your focus/purpose on retaining/binding it. While those who were rendered the ordainment (al kitab), surely realizing that it is the fact from their Lord. And Allah/The Savior is not with negligence of what they do.
2145 And even if you brought forth those who rendered the ordainment with every exposition, they would not have followed your centralization/focal acceptance, nor would you be in abiding by their centralization, nor would any of them be in abiding by each other’s centralization. And if you abided by their opinions subsequent to what rendered to you from the revelation (ilm) then that you surely among the strayers.
2146 The ones who were rendered the ordainment, are recognizing it similar to what they are recognizing in their requisites/constitutions (abanaHum). And that dissent from them surely is concealing the facts while they realize.
2147 The fact from your Lord, so do not be amongst the disputers.
2148 While for every area/mode of focus/action (kullu wajhat), He supports/defends it. So, outrun the prosperity. In whatever condition you may be, Allah/The Savior will bring forth through your unity/collaboration. ….”
2149 And, from the point you were disciplined/trained, unite/support your focus/purpose, binding/retaining the inviolable state of acknowledgment, as it is surely the right from your Lord. And Allah/The Savior is not indifferent to what you do.
2150 And, from the point/moment you were disciplined/trained, unite/support your focus/purpose, binding/retaining the inviolable state of acknowledgment. While in respect of what you were, then unite/support your purposes/focuses binding to it, so that not be for the mankind/people any argument against you except the ones who strayed from them. So do not be nervous of them but, be nervous/apprehensive of Me. And to accomplish my excellence upon you and so that you be guided.
*Note Inviolable state of acknowledgment i.e. Al Masjid Al Haram should be perceived to a condition or mindset of recognizing or accepting something absolute, sacred, or unalterable, and cannot be violated or compromised. It describes a profound and unwavering recognition or acceptance of a truth, principle, or reality that is considered unchangeable or beyond question. In a nutshell, collective acceptance of the Divine law where divine laws serve as the moral and ethical foundation for all members.
Read it and reflect them with a sound lens and compare it with Al Quran and come back if you have objections, I would address for sure what Allah caused/acted(Ma Sha Allah).
Hi..
I am waiting for better explanations of these verses from any of you. Do you have better explanations, pls bring them. -
Hello,,,
Extreme dedication of effort coupled with Allah's Mercy, opened my eyes to this crucial word in Al Quran. Yes .. Qibla.. No one will understand the Arabic Quran unless you are dedicated to honestly seeking guidance from Allah. And I am sure 99% of you won't get my translations below like you never got what is written in Arabic unless you deeply ponder with the Help of Allah.
Qibla = Centralization/focal acceptance (for the purpose of governing authorities)
The verses below are about constituting a Nation as a foundation with the principles of Quran for everyone to abide by whoever is under the Nation’s influence/authority. It is like each country has its central government. Followers of the Quran, have reached a point where they are able to apply Quran’s social law to the public. It seems like they were under the law of some other adjacent nation but not anymore since they have a community solely depending on Allah’s guidance through Quran they are considerable in number as well. Social laws of Quran cannot be applied if not all believers are united as a Nation. There can be disbelievers under the nation, but first believers UNITY should be established to establish a Nation under their influence. By looking at the view of the audience, a party was against the centralization of their own and willing to continue with what they had from the adjacent nation that they practiced. But Allah wanted to establish a Nation. Let’s see the glaring verses.
2142 Will say the audience/viewers/onlookers (shufah) from the mankind/people, what defended/united (walla) them for their centralization/ focal acceptance (Qibla) which they were against it? Say, for Allah/The Savior the enlightenment and the benightedness. He guides one who acts/causes to a consistent/uniform path.
2143 And thusly, we made you an astute foundation (umma) to have involvements (shuhada) upon the mankind/people and be the Dispatcher(rasool) an involver on you, and not, We made the centralization / focal acceptance (al qibla) except to reveal who abides by/follow the Dispatcher (rasool) from who turns back on its consequences. And that became, certainly extreme except for those guided by Allah/The Savior. ….”
2144 Noticed obviously, regressing of your attention/focus (wajh) through the longing (sama). So, We shall surely unite/defend/form centralization (qibla) by approving it. So, form/support your focus on retaining/binding (shatr) the inviolable state of acknowledgment (al masjid al haram), and wherever you were then form/support your focus/purpose on retaining/binding it. While those who were rendered the ordainment (al kitab), surely realizing that it is the fact from their Lord. And Allah/The Savior is not with negligence of what they do.
2145 And even if you brought forth those who rendered the ordainment with every exposition, they would not have followed your centralization/focal acceptance, nor would you be in abiding by their centralization, nor would any of them be in abiding by each other’s centralization. And if you abided by their opinions subsequent to what rendered to you from the revelation (ilm) then that you surely among the strayers.
2146 The ones who were rendered the ordainment, are recognizing it similar to what they are recognizing in their requisites/constitutions (abanaHum). And that dissent from them surely is concealing the facts while they realize.
2147 The fact from your Lord, so do not be amongst the disputers.
2148 While for every area/mode of focus/action (kullu wajhat), He supports/defends it. So, outrun the prosperity. In whatever condition you may be, Allah/The Savior will bring forth through your unity/collaboration. ….”
2149 And, from the point you were disciplined/trained, unite/support your focus/purpose, binding/retaining the inviolable state of acknowledgment, as it is surely the right from your Lord. And Allah/The Savior is not indifferent to what you do.
2150 And, from the point/moment you were disciplined/trained, unite/support your focus/purpose, binding/retaining the inviolable state of acknowledgment. While in respect of what you were, then unite/support your purposes/focuses binding to it, so that not be for the mankind/people any argument against you except the ones who strayed from them. So do not be nervous of them but, be nervous/apprehensive of Me. And to accomplish my excellence upon you and so that you be guided.
*Note Inviolable state of acknowledgment i.e. Al Masjid Al Haram should be perceived to a condition or mindset of recognizing or accepting something absolute, sacred, or unalterable, and cannot be violated or compromised. It describes a profound and unwavering recognition or acceptance of a truth, principle, or reality that is considered unchangeable or beyond question. In a nutshell, collective acceptance of the Divine law where divine laws serve as the moral and ethical foundation for all members.
Read it and reflect them with a sound lens and compare it with Al Quran and come back if you have objections, I would address for sure what Allah caused/acted(Ma Sha Allah).
Object it. Why not object these translations if you have other understandings.. If you have other, then bring, let me point out the flaws..
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Hi jkhan,
The good new is that you have exposed the semantic block that goes from verse 142 to verse 151 of Surah 2. This is a good thing rather than presenting only isolated verses.
The bad news is that you are not using a rigorous methodology, as I clearly explained to you in your another post (on two other words). Thus, intentionally or not, you project your own desires onto the text, strongly moving away from the original meaning of the Quranic text, with a translation that is difficult to read and understand except for your mind.
If God wills, in another post I will explain, among other things, the meaning of the word Qibla, by exposing the textual context that goes well beyond the verses you mention.
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Hi jkhan,
The good new is that you have exposed the semantic block that goes from verse 142 to verse 151 of Surah 2. This is a good thing rather than presenting only isolated verses.
The bad news is that you are not using a rigorous methodology, as I clearly explained to you in your another post (on two other words). Thus, intentionally or not, you project your own desires onto the text, strongly moving away from the original meaning of the Quranic text, with a translation that is difficult to read and understand except for your mind.
If God wills, in another post I will explain, among other things, the meaning of the word Qibla, by exposing the textual context that goes well beyond the verses you mention.
Hi again..
I am not here to follow your methodology as if it is from Allah. Just bring the verses translated if you have one..@amin..
I don't see any difference from what is traditionally translated. And it only directs you to apply what hadith promotes to you. Who commanded them to face a Qibla before this verse was revealed? It is not FOOLS.. that's what the hadith culture has taught you.. it is the onlooker, those who view what happens around them.. How come they become fools by asking the question that they asked even according to your translation? What is so foolishness in the question? It is a valid question and see the reply of Allah to their question -
I am not here to follow your methodology as if it is from Allah. Just bring the verses translated if you have one..
Just a precision it is NOT my methodology. It is a scientific approach (or just a common sense).
Yes i know that you prefer to follow your imagination/internal desires. Your choice. No problem for me. Only God fearing in my mind. Good luck with the rest of your translations. -
Jkhan,
I agree partly to the centralization concept,
but I have very different understanding how Quran should be seen, you are trying to make everything complicated and totally changing some of the common words.I see everything as coming from a leader who wants to unite the people, give a better religion for them, yes with a better rule. Quran says clear,
its to motivate the believers/supporters and demotivate those who reject and come to peaceful terms. Explains things it considers illogical in the religions then.About the word Haram, its about restricting oneself to moral good laws and discipline,
Masjid AL Haram as i said was considered to be a sanctuary with religious symbols, where people go thinking that will purify them, Safety guaranteed as long as one was there,
but follow certain standards, like dress code, no pleasure activities etc.. as they were for learning moral laws and disciplines. -
Jkhan,
I agree partly to the centralization concept,
but I have very different understanding how Quran should be seen, you are trying to make everything complicated and totally changing some of the common words.I see everything as coming from a leader who wants to unite the people, give a better religion for them, yes with a better rule. Quran says clear,
its to motivate the believers/supporters and demotivate those who reject and come to peaceful terms. Explains things it considers illogical in the religions then.About the word Haram, its about restricting oneself to moral good laws and discipline,
Masjid AL Haram as i said was considered to be a sanctuary with religious symbols, where people go thinking that will purify them, Safety guaranteed as long as one was there,
but follow certain standards, like dress code, no pleasure activities etc.. as they were for learning moral laws and disciplines.Look bruh Amin.. You agree or disagree won't make any difference to me and it neither pleases me nor disappoints me cus it is not my intention to gain someone's appreciation or depreciation.. You are accountable for what you do.. All I do is herald the Message of Allah in English.. Yes, you will notice lots of differences when you compare any other translations, but note well I am not changing the Quran but you notice differences in my translations compared to what exists as translations.. Al Quran will remain Al Quran and my understanding of Quran demolishes what others have translated. Yes, I agree.. No common words.. lol.. look for what Allah spoke and don't stick to what is common amongst people. For example, I translated 'Onlooker' for the word shufha. but what does it mean is normally onlookers are 'irresolute' and they question and not deeply reflect and that's the meaning of shufha.. Indeed 'shufaha' is irresolute but, in what sense? Yes, as onlookers.. Otherwise, wise men won't question in that manner.. But these onlookers are not fools but light-witted i.e. not won't to deeply reflect but only ever ready to question as if they have answers to the question.. Translations are understanding of Quran and NOT Quran itself.. without guidance and understanding, translating them will be in vain..
Sanctuary? NO.. I thought sometimes back too .. but No.. it's a gradual process .. i mean guidance. keep seeking.. I tell you one TRICK when you learn Al Quran.. use the spiritual side of the verses and leave the physical aspects.. Allah has given enough knowledge for people to do the physical stuff of their life and that's why we are in an era of technology.. but lacking spiritual knowledge for that needs guidance and not commonsense nor methodology.. you need guidance coupled with lots of research.. Every translator has common sense and Arabic knowledge and they have methodology. but failed cus they did NOT RELY ON Allah alone.. This is not a physical aspect of a book but spiritual unless we are guided it can horribly go wrong...
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I think it is appropriate to place this verse as well under this topic.. So, here we go..
1087 "And We instilled to Musa and his brother that 'to steady your (dual) citizens (kawm) with indulgence (Misr) of awakenings (buyut) and, to make your awakenings centralization (Qibla) and, uphold the interaction and be in touch to the faithful ones.'
It suggests the importance of focusing on or centering the "awakenings" (or the awareness or spiritual insights). It could imply that the collective understanding or consciousness should be unified and directed towards a central purpose or goal. In other words, it emphasizes the idea of unity and centralizing efforts on spiritual or societal goals.
The overall message seems to emphasize spiritual leadership and community-building, guiding followers to awaken spiritually, maintain unity, and foster meaningful connections with fellow believers. The leaders (Musa and his brother) are encouraged to help their people stay grounded and centered while also upholding the importance of interaction and communication with the faithful. This could apply to leading a community with awareness, unity, and mutual support, promoting collective spiritual or social growth.