Prayer Times According to the Quran
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Peace Wakas,
It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.It is still necessary that the game is not rigged from the start; and that you are open to the arguments of others.
If these conditions are met, then we must first agree on the following definitions-
The strict duration of day and night The day goes from dawn to sunset (cf. my first post) and night from sunset to dawn.
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The plural in Arabic begins from three. Arabic language shows, besides singular, dual and plural (broken
and regular), something that could be described as the fourth number the plural of small number or plural of paucity (jamu l-qilla), thoroughly studied by Sibawayhi. -
The ritual prayer can be evoked by the word as-Salât or indirectly by the process of synecdoche (Glorify, prostrate, recitation, etc.).
So, if we agree with these 3 elements, then the Quran mentions at least 3 prayers (in Meccan or Medinan context) and not 2 as you indicate in your above comment by the expressions
- (223 ḥāfiẓū/Guard strictly ʿalā/on l-ṣalawāti/the prayers,
- (692) wahum/an they ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/(are) guarding
- (239) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/ ʿalā/over ṣalawātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/they guard
- (7034) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/ ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayer yuḥāfiẓūna/keep a guard.
Now, let's look among the earliest revealed verses for those that mention at least three prayer times. We first have the verse
7625 And remember the name of your Lord in the early morning/bukratan and at the end of the day/aseelan.
7626 And from the night/mina al-layli prostrate to Him and glorify Him long.
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.Now let's look at the following verses
Glorify by the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting
and from the night glorify him also and after the prostration.
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.Then verse allows us to understand that the "(at the) ends"/aṭrāfa (1) corresponds to the beginning and end of the day. The verse removes also the ambiguity of the plural aṭrāfa used here, as both day and night can only have two edges-sides ! (by using the word tarafiya)
Finally, the verses
Perform the Prayer at the two edges-sides/ṭarafayi of the day, and at the hours of the night near the day/zulafan
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.
The term zulfa in Arabic means any hour approaching day or night. Here we have a plural, so it evokes the hours/times of night close to day, i.e. after sunset.The problematic verse remains . If we stick to these 3 prayer times, then the translation is as follows
"Perform the Prayer at the setting of the sun/dulooki until the intensely darkness/ghasaqi of the night.
And the Recitation at dawn, for the Recitation at dawn is witnessed.
At night, keep vigil/tahajjad with it, an additional-supererogatory work/nâfilatan (2) for you."
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night. + 1 vigil prayerNb
- The form AAashiyyi which appears in , and is ambiguous because it means, according to Lane's Lexicon, " the last, or the latter, part of the day; (Mgh, Msb, K, TA as also ↓ عَشِيَّةٌ (K, TA) this is the meaning commonly known ". In light of other expressions used by the Quran to designate prayer times, we shall choose the following definition the last, or the latter, part of the day.
(1) aṭrāfa (Lane's Lexicon) The extremity, or end, of anything; and a side; a lateral, or an outward, or adjacent, part or portion; a region, district, quarter, or tract; The fingers and has no sing. unless this is used as a prefixed noun, as in the saying أَشَارَتْ بِطَرَفِ إِصْبَعِهَا
(2) nâfilatan (Lane's Lexicon) What accedes to, or exceeds, the original.(T.)A voluntary gift, by way of alms, or as a good work(T)a gift(Ḳ) or a giftعَنْ يَدٍ (M)a deed beyond what is incumbent, or obligatory.(M, Ḳ.) -
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It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
https//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpg
https//haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm
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It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.Wakas,
I agree on minimum of two times. Me myself I pray 3 times a day, Fajr mid day and ishaa
God bless yiu6
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Peace good logic,
Each study and come to their own conclusions and prepare to meet their Lord with whatever they choose and decided to do.But there is nothing wrong about studying and learning together ,like here, with respect and humbleness, at the end
Wise observation. That is why I mentioned the ambiguity of verse and particularly using the word dulūki.
BUT, on the other hand, at the very least, one must respect the rules of the Arabic classic language, or any other language for that matter. And to cite just one example, when verse says two + (wa) 1 = 3, then it's 3 and not two. One should not be deaf to clear discourse, nor twist the meaning that is fundamentally evident. This is, in fact, what traditional exegetes do by indicating that these times of the night include 2 prayers! Muhammad Asad, who translated very well the meaning of the beginning of this verse, couldn't help but mention the 5 prayers in his commentary !. Incidentally, for verse , it should be noted that the other authenticated recitation variant is zulufan (instead of zulaf in the Hafs version), with an equivalent meaning, but in the singular, which then removes any ambiguity.
I also mentioned in my previous comment the ambiguity of the form ʿashiyi, which can designate several time periods; certainly all related to the decrease in luminosity.
Let's continue our effort of understanding, as you rightly mention in your comment.
This term is used three times in connection with two moments of Prayer, in opposition to the beginning of the day (i.e. dawn)Recite what has been revealed to you from the Writing of your Lord. None can change His words. And you will
find no refuge besides Him. Be patient with those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and
aat the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi, seeking His Face.Therefore endure patiently, for Allah's promise is true. Ask forgiveness for your sin and glorify your Lord
by praise at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi and at dawn/al-ibkari (2).Do not drive away those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi.
And (coincidentally?), another term asali is used in place of the word "ʿashiyi" in 3 other passages, in connection with two moments of Prayer
They said "Tales of the ancients which he has had written down and which are dictated to him
at dawn/bukratan (2) and at the end of the day/aseelan!"When the Qur'an is recited, listen to it attentively and remain silent. Perhaps you will receive mercy.
Remember your Lord within yourself, with humility and in fear, without raising your voice, early in the
mornings/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali, and do not be among the heedless.
Indeed, those who are near your Lord are not too proud to worship Him. They glorify Him and prostrate before
Him.In houses which Allah has permitted to be raised and wherein His Name is remembered. He is glorified therein
early in the morning/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali. By men whom neither trade nor sale distracts from the
remembrance of Allah.In conclusion, one can observe that the words ʿashiyi and asali are used in opposition to time with the same words that designate the beginning of the morning (in red and blue below). These two words ʿashiyi and asali are thus, in this context of Prayer, interchangeable.
(1) root ghayn dāl wāw (غ د و) the first part of the day, the early part of the morning, meal at dawn
(2) root bā kāf rā (ب ك ر) beginning of the day -
It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
https//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpg
https//haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm
Peace Mazhar,
Question 1
you say "dulūki" in means "The verbal noun signifies a state of rubbing and getting away with ease and smoothly. The Sun touches/rubs the horizon and smoothly disappears whereby the night emerges." Then you say "lidulūki l-shamsi" means "the Sunset"
-> a contradiction here? Either it refers to the phase just before sunset or at/after sunset (as your graph shows) but not both.Questions 2.1 and 2.2
You say "ṣalati l-ʿishāi" in means "the time of first part of night after disappearance of twilight-the darkened night"
-> 2.1 why choose this definition and not this one "the time from sunset to the darkness of the night"
-> 2.2 how do young people who have not reached puberty find out when the prayer of dark night is over and ask permission (baʿdi ṣalati l-ʿishāi)? -
Root د ل ك
Ibn Faris stated(مقاييس اللغة)
الدال واللام والكاف أصلٌ واحد يدلُّ على زَوالِ شيءٍ عن شيء، ولا يكون إلاَّ برِفْق.That it leads to the perception of disappearance, termination, coming to an end of a thing with reference to another, and it is but smoothly and softly.
Sun disappears on the horizon. Night sets in.
New Lunar day starts.Root غ س ق
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 4
b) No of constructions 4 All Noun
Ibn Faris stated
(مقاييس اللغة)
الغين والسين والقاف أصلٌ صحيح يدل على ظُلْمة. فالغَسَق الظلمةThat it leads to the perception of darkness, blackness.
(الصّحّاح في اللغة)
الغَسَقُ أول ظلمة الليلThat it is the early darkness of the night.
Semantic Domain Light Darkness - Temperature
The use of phrase دُلُوكُ الشمس instead of غُرُوبُ الشمس also contains information that the Sun does not set along a vertical line but at an angle. It is because of the Earth's tilt. The path of the Sun is curved, tilted relative to the horizon.
Phases of Night
https//haqeeqat.pk/roots/(1343).htm -
For the one who observes salat five times a day (fajar, noon, asar, maghrib مَغرِبُ and isha)
My question
Why did the "Prophet Muhammad" named maghrib as his 4th salat
As we know the word "maghrib" in the Quran means "west" and it looks very weird to me!2115 To God belongs the east and the west (المَغرِبُ); wherever you go there will be the presence of God. God is Omnipresent, Omniscient.
Thank you.
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The West or the setting sun are the same thing (when viewed from the Middle East)
Yes, it's very true
But I wonder if "maghrib" can be literally translated (word for word) as "sunset"!Note
I do not know Arabic
But when I read the Quran translation by Rashad Khalifa
He used the English word "sunset" for the translation of the Arabic word "الغُروبِ" and not for "المَغرِبُ"5039 Therefore, be patient with their speech, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset.
(فَاسبِر عَلىٰ ما يَقولونَ وَسَبِّح بِحَمدِ رَبِّكَ قَبلَ طُلوعِ الشَّمسِ وَقَبلَ الغُروبِ)I also used "google translate" and it gave me the same answer as "غروب"
Thank you
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Hi shukri,
But I wonder if "maghrib" can be literally translated (word for word) as "sunset"!
Between and from my point of view the difference doesn't really matter. It depends of the textual context.
So for i translate as "sunset or setting". It refers to the sun.
and for i prefer "west". It refers more of a direction. "East and West" this phrase is often used poetically or in literary contexts to describe the entire span of the day from sunrise to sunset, or metaphorically to encompass a wide range or expanse.The East and the West This translates directly into geographical directions.
The Rising and the Setting Sun This emphasises the movement of the sun. -
Hi shukri,
Between and from my point of view the difference doesn't really matter. It depends of the textual context.
So for i translate as "sunset or setting". It refers to the sun.
and for i prefer "west". It refers more of a direction. "East and West" this phrase is often used poetically or in literary contexts to describe the entire span of the day from sunrise to sunset, or metaphorically to encompass a wide range or expanse.The East and the West This translates directly into geographical directions.
The Rising and the Setting Sun This emphasises the movement of the sun.Say, if I wish to use "صلاة الغُروبِ" instead of "صلاة المغرب"
Am i right too?One more question, if you don't mind
How about "isha"
Does it refer to "dusk" or "evening" or "night"?Search Labs | AI Overview (the difference between dusk and evening)
While "Dusk" is considered a specific point in time when the sun is just below the horizon, marking the end of twilight, "evening" refers to a broader period of time after sunset, encompassing dusk and extending into the darker hours of night; essentially, dusk is a part of the evening, but not the entire evening itself.The word "Isha" in the Quran
1216 They came back to their father in the evening, weeping ... (RK translation)
(وَجاءو أَباهُم عِشاءً يَبكونَ)2458 O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances - before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer ... (RK translation)
(يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ ءامَنوا لِيَستَـٔذِنكُمُ الَّذينَ مَلَكَت أَيمٰنُكُم وَالَّذينَ لَم يَبلُغُوا الحُلُمَ مِنكُم ثَلٰثَ مَرّٰتٍ مِن قَبلِ صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ وَحينَ تَضَعونَ ثِيابَكُم مِنَ الظَّهيرَةِ وَمِن بَعدِ صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ ثَلٰثُ عَورٰتٍ لَكُم لَيسَ عَلَيكُم وَلا عَلَيهِم جُناحٌ بَعدَهُنَّ طَوّٰفونَ عَلَيكُم بَعضُكُم عَلىٰ بَعضٍ كَذٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الـٔايٰتِ وَاللَّهُ عَليمٌ حَكيمٌ)Thank you.
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Hi shukri,
One more question, if you don't mind
How about "isha"
Does it refer to "dusk" or "evening" or "night"?Unfortunately, it depends! Classic dictionaries state that this form ʿishā (عِشَآء) can have three main meanings (all related to night, however)
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Entry of the night or from sunset to darkness of the night (as synonymous of the form ʿashiīī (عَشِىّ))
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Night, all night long or the beginning of the darkness of night
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Evening prayer
Regarding Prayer, if you understand that the Quran requires five prayers, then you will interpret it as "the beginning of the darkness of night" (cf. Mazhar above).
If you understand that it refers to the period from the beginning of the night until the darkness of night, then it equates to evening twilight only.
If you understand that it refers to the night prayer, then you can translate it as "Evening Prayer", during the first hours of the night. -
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Hi shukri,
Unfortunately, it depends! Classic dictionaries state that this form ʿishā (عِشَآء) can have three main meanings (all related to night, however)-
Entry of the night or from sunset to darkness of the night (as synonymous of the form ʿashiīī (عَشِىّ))
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Night, all night long or the beginning of the darkness of night
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Evening prayer
Regarding Prayer, if you understand that the Quran requires five prayers, then you will interpret it as "the beginning of the darkness of night" (cf. Mazhar above).
If you understand that it refers to the period from the beginning of the night until the darkness of night, then it equates to evening twilight only.
If you understand that it refers to the night prayer, then you can translate it as "Evening Prayer", during the first hours of the night.Three options!
But anyway, I choose the first one for sure since the Quran only mentions three "compulsory" prayers by name i.e. salat al-Fajr, as-salat al-Wustha and salat al-Isha
AND "salat al-Isha" is the correct name for "salat al-Maghrib" as the timeframe for "salat al-Isha" is equivalent to "salat al-Maghrib"Just my take!
Thanks for your time!
EndsNote
My mathematical analysis on Salat (Reply #11)
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612753.10 -
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Three options!
But anyway, I choose the first one for sure since the Quran only mentions three "compulsory" prayers by name i.e. salat al-Fajr, as-salat al-Wustha and salat al-Isha
AND "salat al-Isha" is the correct name for "salat al-Maghrib"Just my take!
Thanks for your time!
EndsNote
My mathematical analysis on Salat (Reply #11)
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612753.10A little attention to it will negate this opinion.
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