Does rendering of 17:1 by Wakas make any sense?
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I appreciate that.
We have already discussed this aspect on my article thread for al masjid al haram
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604467
This is detailed analysis. I hope you critically evaluate it and give your input, agreeable or disagreeable.
Do you agree with the semantics of http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/09.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20011/13.%20FaAsre%20Seen%20Ra%20Ya/2.gif discussed in my previous post? And that it cannot mean "He took".
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http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00011.%20Bandgi%20Ain%20Ba%20Dal/42.gif Prepositional Phrase + Possessive Phrase Inseparable preposition + Noun Definite; masculine; singular; genitive referring Muhammad (Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam) + Suffixed Pronoun Third person; masculine; singular; in genitive state referring Allah the Exalted. The Preposition is for making the verb. These phrases signifies the person for whom the travel was arranged to embark upon journey.
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.051/206.%20Lyaltan%20Laam%20Ya%20Laam/7.gif Time Adverb Use of this adverb is quite meaningful since the Verb itself denotes traveling by night. It signifies that the journey undertaken was initiated during night but its span of time was short with relation to night; and it emphasizes the departure at night,
The Root of verb has Semantic domain Travel by Night
Core elements are
the Traveler he goes on a journey during the night; it is an activity in which the Traveler moves from a Source location in the direction to a Goal location along a Path - the route along which the travel takes place. This semantic frame emphasize the whole process of getting from one place to another, rather than profiling merely the beginning or the end of the journey.
What was the Source location and direction of journey?
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPQ.gif It is a Prepositional Phrase + Adjectival Phrase relating to preceding Verb. This Preposition denotes a beginning point related to place. Hence it is connected with verbs which convey idea of separation and departure etc. as is the case here by verb
Thus it is evident that denotes a location - place.
Direction is also core element of Journey, it is mentioned
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPR.gif
It is a Prepositional Phrase + Adjectival Phrase relating to the preceding Verb. Separable preposition. Its general meaning is directional towards an object. It does not mean or necessarily include entering into a location. It only denotes to reach the point where the boundary of another location begins. This shows the Path of journey.
It means towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque
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I still did not get where this altitude comes from?
Secondly there was no mosque around Kaaba at that time. Mecca was not under muslim control yet.
Pl study the Root and about superlative noun. Also please skim Ayahs about Masjid t find its presence.
Or please wait, I will explain it later.
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Re "took".
I have little issue if its taken to mean "travel by night". I don't see how it affect my view.
However I do consider the parts in bold below baseless claims until proven otherwise
It is a Prepositional Phrase + Adjectival Phrase relating to preceding Verb. This Preposition denotes a beginning point related to place. Hence it is connected with verbs which convey idea of separation and departure etc. as is the case here by verb
Thus it is evident that denotes a location - place.
Please cite the Arabic grammar book/reference, with page number which states something similar to "when a prepositional phrase (e.g. min) precedes adjectival phrase it ALWAYS means the adjectival phrase is a location/place".
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Re "took".
I have little issue if its taken to mean "travel by night". I don't see how it affect my view.
However I do consider the parts in bold below baseless claims until proven otherwise
Please cite the Arabic grammar book/reference, with page number which states something similar to "when a prepositional phrase (e.g. min) precedes adjectival phrase it ALWAYS means the adjectival phrase is a location/place".
Pl read in context. Journey has the Source location and the location is mentioned by Preposition Min.
The simple prepositions are divisible into three clauses, indicating respectively, motion proceeding from or away from a place; motion to or towards it; and rest in it. The prepositions which indicate motion proceeding from or away from a place are Min and "an".
This can be verified from any grammar book in topic Prepositions.
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Salam!
Maybe this could be of interest.
http//sunnah.org/wp/2016/02/14/graves-of-allahs-prophets-in-masjid-al-haram/Now I know why Hajj/Pilgrimage of al-Masjid al-haram is necessary once in a lifetime and why Salat and sacrifices are to be performed on graves of prophets. And why should you not perform Salat on graves of Kuffar.
Also,
https//muslimmatters.org/2014/02/14/8-things-didnt-know-masjid-al-aqsa/
https//www.islamiclandmarks.com/palestine-other/masjid-e-khalil-hebronNow I know why people built a mosque over the graves of Ashab-e-Kahf. Now I know what a Masjid is and what Salat is. Now I know why people make pilgrimages to the shrines and temples and why they are sacred.
Maybe you'd also come to know. So stop discussing and start your Salat (2, 3, 5 or more times a day) from today. Do not clap and whistle at the graves. Do bows and prostrations while weeping/crying and pray for the righteous souls. -X
May Allah guide and bless all the truth seekers!
Peace! -
The part in red bold tells us everything
Pl read in context. Journey has the Source location and the location is mentioned by Preposition Min.
What you perhaps mean to say is when we read the context of 171 it suggests the starting point of journey was a place and I agree that is what a superficial reading indicates. We already discussed this at the start of my thread why this poses problems.
The simple prepositions are divisible into three clauses, indicating respectively, motion proceeding from or away from a place; motion to or towards it; and rest in it. The prepositions which indicate motion proceeding from or away from a place are Min and "an".
This can be verified from any grammar book in topic Prepositions.
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Anyone who studies any Arabic grammar book/site knows why you never provided what I asked for. You dress up your view (i.e. it is evident use of "min" here denotes a place) and pretend it is a fact with no other possibility. Don't confuse your one interpretation as being the only possible interpretation. Learn the difference.
e.g.
http//revivearabic.blogspot.com/2016/09/arabic-particles-arabic-preposition-min.html -
The part in red bold tells us everything
What you perhaps mean to say is when we read the context of 171 it suggests the starting point of journey was a place and I agree that is what a superficial reading indicates. We already discussed this at the start of my thread why this poses problems.
'Anyone who studies any Arabic grammar book/site knows why you never provided what I asked for. You dress up your view (i.e. it is evident use of "min" here denotes a place) and pretend it is a fact with no other possibility. Don't confuse your one interpretation as being the only possible interpretation. Learn the difference.
e.g.
http//revivearabic.blogspot.com/2016/09/arabic-particles-arabic-preposition-min.htmlIf one concentrates and tries to know what is a "Journey" he can realize what it means
Core elements are
the Traveler he goes on a journey during the night; it is an activity in which the Traveler moves from a Source location in the direction to a Goal location along a Path - the route along which the travel takes place. This semantic frame emphasize the whole process of getting from one place to another, rather than profiling merely the beginning or the end of the journey.
The Mode of transportation expresses how the motion of the Traveler is effected, by their body or by a vehicle which holds and conveys the Traveler.
Non core entity is the Explanation for which the travel is undertaken; Time when the traveling occurs; and depiction of the state of the Traveler during the journey.
If the basic semantics of a word accepted all over the world in all the langues is called superficial, how one can make things enter into someone's brain.
Has anything different mentioned in the Link given by you about Min what I had stated?
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Does it make any sense?
Yes, indeed, it makes no sense. It seems that he has a real problem with understanding the word "masjid" in the Qur'an. However, one good point for him in your exchanges, he tries to connect the first verse to passages from the same surah.
On the other hand, concerning you, i think that referring to Surah 53 for understanding verse 1 is too hasty, before having identified the structure and textual composition of this surah.
This detailed study has never been carried out to my knowledge, using the rigorous tools of rhetorical analysis. God willing, I will tackle this during this lunar month of fasting and intense meditation on the Qur'an, and share with the community of this forum the fruit of my efforts. -
peace,
Mazhar,
Has anything different mentioned in the Link given by you about Min what I had stated?
The Arabic preposition min مِنْ is used to indicate
the beginning of extent or commencement of the limit in space or time or simply the commencement of the limit.Iyyaka,
From an earlier post
I am looking for a problem in my view such as it contradicts Quran, is impossible according to logic/practicality, impossible according to the grammar, no corresponding example in Quran. These are decent objections. If you have any of these objections then please bring forth clear evidence to back them up, not personal opinions.Re understanding "masjid"
If my understanding is so problematic why is there minimal issues found?
Plus I couldn't have made it easier if you or anyone disagrees. In my article I explicitly point out what verses cause issues for each understanding. You and Mazhar dont bother addressing them then continue on your merry way, simple.
