So is it twice a day or three times for prayer?

good_logic

Salam JinnJinn.

Ya, some keep repeating " If one does not understand Arabic , one cannot understand Qoran"!

I keep saying"GOD teaches and explains Qoran" regardless of the language.

Or may be it helps when one does not even use any language-for the straight path- like
https//www.youtube.com/shorts/ZVFarL_JwsA

Oh and I also keep saying the straight path and peace are the main message. So it does not matter how one understands Salat or does rituals or goes to the gym or plays snooker or...
One does what benefits their bodies and soul according to their own understanding also.

So why are we not accepting that people have their own faculties and are responsible for their use.
Or are we expecting people to follow our own reasoning and understanding?

So live and let others live if they are good and peaceful.
That is what Qoran says to me and that is the most important of all sayings.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

JinnJinn

Salam JinnJinn.

Ya, some keep repeating " If one does not understand Arabic , one cannot understand Qoran"!

I keep saying"GOD teaches and explains Qoran" regardless of the language.

Or may be it helps when one does not even use any language-for the straight path- like
https//www.youtube.com/shorts/ZVFarL_JwsA

Oh and I also keep saying the straight path and peace are the main message. So it does not matter how one understands Salat or does rituals or goes to the gym or plays snooker or...
One does what benefits their bodies and soul according to their own understanding also.

So why are we not accepting that people have their own faculties and are responsible for their use.
Or are we expecting people to follow our own reasoning and understanding?

So live and let others live if they are good and peaceful.
That is what Qoran says to me and that is the most important of all sayings.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Hey fella, good evening!
Arabic is mandatory to understand Al Quran. After all it is a language that you don’t speak, on top of that it is in ancient tone. If you read translation and deduce that you don’t possibly need to know Arabic to understand Al Quran then it is false postulation and you will rely on translation and translation is not Al Quran. By this, I am not compelling you to learn Arabic first prior to understanding Al Quran. But know the fundamental stature of the language and approach for a comprehensive dictionary and take every word into consideration when and where applicable take into consideration context and leave all translations aside in the process. That would help. Whatever, I am not your guide or disposer of affairs. Figure it out.

Secondly, it’s not about whether I am right, or you are right, nevertheless it is about what is right, and what is fact and what is right is one, a single concept and it won’t change from the book for everyone with their own reasoning, but the fact will remain as fact. That’s the pinnacle of destination you have to approach.

For instance, Traditional Sunnah and Hadith followers claim is ‘Obey Allah and obey Rasool’ is two segments, and in case if you are against it then you are against their reasoning. They would possibly, say why you involve with our own reason? That’s how they have understood it and they are afraid to step out of their understanding. So, they follow what they follow with their own reasoning leaving all pieces of advice null and void compared to their reasoning.
Don’t think reasoning is always on the right track. Everyone can reason and reason to its finest, but the guidance of Allah only can take the reasoning towards the facts of Allah. You are not different from those who are traditional Muslims. You are not allowing the guidance of Allah to reach with your reasoning. You highlight your reasoning above all and blur the guidance of Allah. It won’t work out in that manner. That’s why you follow rituals as you claim and substantiate them. You don’t allow the guidance of Allah, and you think your reasoning is better than the guidance of Allah, but you don’t perceive it since you don’t open your door.

Yes, the people who believe salat is ritual fully believed that the proof with them like 2+2=4
And the proof with you lean towards 2+2=5
How to solve that!

Good evening, Boyo, Shukri!
Hey Sorry, your nickname is Shukri and I corrected it.
If 2+2 = 4 for you traditional people, then why pray 2 times a day or 3 times a day or 5 times a day? Why three sects? Who is right here? Is it difficult to figure out how many times you have to pray daily?

shukri

Hey Sorry, your nickname is Shukri and I corrected it.
If 2+2 = 4 for you traditional people, then why pray 2 times a day or 3 times a day or 5 times a day? Why three sects? Who is right here? Is it difficult to figure out how many times you have to pray daily?

Salam Jinn2

Not that difficult
God has given me solution
See my previous Reply #36

Reply #36
Yes, we had different view on salat
I think that's okay brother as long as we take verse 3918 as our guidance
3918 They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom God has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

After examining all words/views based on the Quran alone, I choose to pray 3 times a day
That is the best thing I can do!

Now we go back to my question on Reply #40

Reply #40
Yes, the people who believe salat is ritual fully believed that the proof with them like 2+2=4
And the proof with you lean towards 2+2=5
How to solve that!

Do you ponder other opinions before you decide to take salat as non-ritual practice, etc.
OR you just take it solely based on your studying the Quran on your own
And then you fully believe without doubt that you are on the straight path!

Sorry brother
I'm just interested to know your approach in understanding the Quranic teaching, our ultimate guidance
God bless you!

Thank you.

JinnJinn

Salam Jinn2

Not that difficult
God has given me solution
See my previous Reply #36

Reply #36
Yes, we had different view on salat
I think that's okay brother as long as we take verse 3918 as our guidance
3918 They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom God has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

After examining all words/views based on the Quran alone, I choose to pray 3 times a day
That is the best thing I can do!

Now we go back to my question on Reply #40

Reply #40
Yes, the people who believe salat is ritual fully believed that the proof with them like 2+2=4
And the proof with you lean towards 2+2=5
How to solve that!

Do you ponder other opinions before you decide to take salat as non-ritual practice, etc.
OR you just take it solely based on your studying the Quran on your own
And then you fully believe without doubt that you are on the straight path!

Sorry brother
I'm just interested to know your approach in understanding the Quranic teaching, our ultimate guidance
God bless you!

Thank you.

Psychologically I get you very well. Change your attitude and be honest with your Lord. You never verified anything, but you practiced ever since you started practicing rituals and now trying to justify what you have been practicing in a different mode without evidence from the outset and desperate not being able to step out from the rituals that you love for quite a chunk of your life for no reason.
Hey, don’t take the mentality of others to you in support of your view. That’s a humongous error you are making. Just because you practice 3 times a day a ritual doesn’t mean for those who practice for 5 times a day would seem sound. They would stone you to death if you keep saying this on their platforms. You can’t speak these fragile wording in a society where those who practice 5 times a day and consider as the ultimate fact. So don’t be dare to combine different sects into one and say ‘it’s okay’ as if you guys are united as one group. Never. Never that would be possible as long as Satan is enemy to you.
You are curious on how I found the straight path. My advice to you and anyone who raises such a question is just leave every practice first and start fresh. Whatever you initiated from your childhood is not your option, but you were programmed to do so. Just step out from them and learn the book with utmost care and reasoning and wait for the guidance of Allah provided that, you are honest, you would surely get guided with what is fact from the book. If you are dishonest, you won’t and you will remain in 2+2=5. To get guided from the book, you need to clear your invented and programmed path. Simply remove the indoctrination. You can’t forge ahead keeping indoctrination in one hand and guidance in another hand. If you do so, you will inevitably mess it up and falter. That’s what Satan wants. Mess up.
Did I say every practice and start fresh? Yes. For example, Mohamed and his people were idol worshipers directly. They could never have been guided if they didn’t leave every practice of what they were used to and start fresh with the verses of Allah. You can’t drag anything alongside with love of them. Your problem and people like your fellow member goodlogic’s problem is you are dragging undesirable rituals alongside and brave enough to consider them as instructions of Allah. Still, you want guidance of Allah in your heart. Impossible. May Allah save you people. Finally, approach your Lord from ZERO, as He created you knowing nothing.
You definitely not have verified every verse of Al Quran to proudly state 3918 as if it is your shield while you have other agendas that lead to nothingness while you perceive not. Because you are not ready to concede Allah’s path and you find something wrong in His path while the invented path makes you happier.
Good night.

shukri

Psychologically I get you very well. Change your attitude and be honest with your Lord. You never verified anything, but you practiced ever since you started practicing rituals and now trying to justify what you have been practicing in a different mode without evidence from the outset and desperate not being able to step out from the rituals that you love for quite a chunk of your life for no reason.
Hey, don’t take the mentality of others to you in support of your view. That’s a humongous error you are making. Just because you practice 3 times a day a ritual doesn’t mean for those who practice for 5 times a day would seem sound. They would stone you to death if you keep saying this on their platforms. You can’t speak these fragile wording in a society where those who practice 5 times a day and consider as the ultimate fact. So don’t be dare to combine different sects into one and say ‘it’s okay’ as if you guys are united as one group. Never. Never that would be possible as long as Satan is enemy to you.
You are curious on how I found the straight path. My advice to you and anyone who raises such a question is just leave every practice first and start fresh. Whatever you initiated from your childhood is not your option, but you were programmed to do so. Just step out from them and learn the book with utmost care and reasoning and wait for the guidance of Allah provided that, you are honest, you would surely get guided with what is fact from the book. If you are dishonest, you won’t and you will remain in 2+2=5. To get guided from the book, you need to clear your invented and programmed path. Simply remove the indoctrination. You can’t forge ahead keeping indoctrination in one hand and guidance in another hand. If you do so, you will inevitably mess it up and falter. That’s what Satan wants. Mess up.
Did I say every practice and start fresh? Yes. For example, Mohamed and his people were idol worshipers directly. They could never have been guided if they didn’t leave every practice of what they were used to and start fresh with the verses of Allah. You can’t drag anything alongside with love of them. Your problem and people like your fellow member goodlogic’s problem is you are dragging undesirable rituals alongside and brave enough to consider them as instructions of Allah. Still, you want guidance of Allah in your heart. Impossible. May Allah save you people. Finally, approach your Lord from ZERO, as He created you knowing nothing.
You definitely not have verified every verse of Al Quran to proudly state 3918 as if it is your shield while you have other agendas that lead to nothingness while you perceive not. Because you are not ready to concede Allah’s path and you find something wrong in His path while the invented path makes you happier.
Good night.

Salam Jinn2

It's good!
You start your journey from zero and 100% rely on God to show you His path

I start from agnostic/atheist
And believe the existence of God and the Quran is the word of God through sign of "miracle-19" in verses 7430-37

My last question for you
Based on your Reply #31, do you still salat since the complete Quran is available with us now
And what type of salat you do, if any!

Reply #31
... there is no TIME for Sala, i.e. for INTERACTION or CONNECTION. There was TIME for Sala when they were not aware of the guidance, i.e. when people were in ignorance without messages of Allah. For instance, when the Al Quran was in the process of revealing, faithful folks had to attend salah whenever the Messenger called for sala i.e. for interaction and the Messenger's interaction was revealing/reciting/streaming only verses of Allah. The Messenger was not in a position to reach every individual to interact with, so he was compelled to assign a TIME for INTERACTION so it was the duty of the faithful lovely people to attend and get to know what the Quran was to offer for them through interaction. But as of now, you have the completed Al Quran and the Messenger left it for us.

Thank you.
Have a nice day!

good_logic

Peace JinnJinn.

You may know some things , but I know you do not know what you say here for sure, quote

". After all it is a language that you don't speak,"

My evidence? I know for sure I now speak Arabic fluently and it is easy to check this.
Would you like us to meet, with some witnesses, and verify this?

This is a fact and you would be wrong to claim otherwise. I can prove it.
I had to correct you about this fact at least.

As for the rest of your post, it is always good to keep learning and above every knowledgeable human there is another human more knowledgeable and above all GOD has the perfect knowledge.

Thank you for the replies.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

ados

Answer of GPT 4o

"According to the Quran alone, the concept of salat is often understood as a form of prayer or connection to God. However, its interpretation and whether it is a ritual practice and how often it should be performed have been the subject of debate among Quranists (those who rely solely on the Quran for religious practices) and other Islamic scholars.

Here’s a breakdown based on the Quran alone

Salat as a Ritual Practice
In the Quran, salat is frequently mentioned in the context of prayer and worship. It involves devotion, remembrance, and communication with God.
Some verses describe physical actions associated with salat, such as standing, bowing, and prostrating (e.g., Quran 4102 and Quran 2226), which indicate that it can be understood as a ritualized form of worship.
However, the Quran does not explicitly provide a step-by-step guide to the rituals, such as the specific physical movements or the exact words to recite, which are detailed in Hadith literature. This has led to various interpretations.
Frequency of Salat
The Quran provides guidance on times of salat, but it does not explicitly mention the number "five times a day," which is commonly practiced in mainstream Islam based on Hadith.

Some key verses suggest salat should be performed at specific times

Quran 11114 – "Establish salat at the two ends of the day and in some hours of the night..."

This verse suggests at least three general time periods for prayer morning, evening, and night.
Quran 1778 – "Establish salat at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night, and the Qur'an at dawn..."

This verse refers to prayer during the decline of the sun (afternoon), darkness of the night, and dawn.
Quran 20130 – "So be patient over what they say and glorify your Lord with praise before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and glorify Him during periods of the night and at the ends of the day..."

This indicates times before sunrise, before sunset, and during the night.
Quran 2458 – Refers to three times of privacy before dawn, at noon, and after evening prayer, hinting at additional periods of prayer.

Summary

Is salat a ritual practice? According to the Quran, salat appears to involve physical acts of devotion (standing, bowing, and prostrating), which suggests it can be understood as a ritual.

How many times a day? The Quran alone seems to indicate at least three times for salat morning, evening, and night. However, some verses point to the possibility of additional prayers.
The common practice of five daily prayers in mainstream Islam is derived from Hadith literature, not directly from the Quran."

GPT 4o

Assalamu alaykum brother

I just joined your forum, I found you through chatgpt while searching for Quran alone groups.

I have to say, you have to remember when you ask chatgpt that you want an Quranik answer without hadith influence. Because my answer to the same question is totaly different

Wakas

https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

shukri

https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

Just to convey ChatGPT's message!
Below is part of ChatGPT's feedback on your article ...

Potential areas for further scrutiny (though not outright errors)
Interpretation of "zulafan" While you interpret it as indicating three or more, in classical Arabic, "zulafan" generally means "at or near," which can be plural but does not necessarily specify the number. This interpretation, while plausible, is subject to linguistic nuance and could be debated.

ChatGPT's Critique in full
The Arabic word "zulafan" is a plural that can mean "at or near" or "close to," but it does not explicitly specify "three or more" times. Classical Arabic lexicons often interpret "zulafan" as "near" or "close to," which may include the beginning or end of a period, rather than discrete times.
Your interpretation that "zulafan" implies a minimum of three times (morning, evening, and a small part of the night) relies on a specific linguistic and contextual framework. Some scholars might see "zulafan" as indicating proximity rather than multiple distinct times.
Potential flaw The assumption that "zulafan" necessarily indicates multiple distinct times may be overstated; it could be read as emphasizing the importance of prayers near or at the edges.

AND My question
The word "zulafan" is a plural form for three or more
What is the word "zulafan" just for plural two!

Thank you.

Wakas

you could have used chat gpt for that, here is what it said

The Arabic word زُلْفَى (zulfā) is a verbal noun (مصدر) that means “nearness” or “closeness,” especially in a spiritual or honorable sense (e.g., closeness to God). It's used in the Qur’an in that sense, often metaphorically.

In the Qur’an, زُلَفًا (zulafan) appears as a plural, usually referring to "times of closeness" (e.g., parts of the night close to the day, or nearness to Allah).

Forms

Singular زُلْفَى (zulfā)
Plural زُلَفًا (zulafan) — plural of zulfā, functioning as a broken plural (جمع تكسير)

Dual form

Arabic verbal nouns like zulfā generally do not have a dual form in regular usage, since verbal nouns (مصادر) often do not appear in dual. However, if you wanted to formally construct a dual for theoretical or poetic use, it would be

زُلْفَيَانِ (zulfayān) – nominative
زُلْفَيَيْنِ (zulfayayn) – accusative/genitive

This is based on standard dual endings applied to feminine nouns ending in -ā (ى).

Notes

The word zulfā is feminine and ends in a ’alif maqṣūrah (ى), which behaves like a long ā.
It's rare for مصدر forms to be used in dual, so it's not commonly attested.
In the Qur’an, only singular and plural appear, not dual.

Let me know if you want analysis of any of the verses where zulfa appears.

shukri

The Arabic word زُلْفَى (zulfā) is a verbal noun (مصدر) that means “nearness” or “closeness,” especially in a spiritual or honorable sense (e.g., closeness to God). It's used in the Qur’an in that sense, often metaphorically.

In the Qur’an, زُلَفًا (zulafan) appears as a plural, usually referring to "times of closeness" (e.g., parts of the night close to the day, or nearness to Allah).

Forms

Singular زُلْفَى (zulfā)
Plural زُلَفًا (zulafan) — plural of zulfā, functioning as a broken plural (جمع تكسير)

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article
11114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

Note
I do not know arabic and you know that )

Thank you.

Wakas

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

The article is very clear, quote

Whilst this verse can be interpreted in multiple ways there is only one way to interpret it that provides us with a time-range for each salat
salat al fajr / salat (of) the dawn/morning
As its name suggests it is done around dawn (morning twilight). This can correctly be deemed one edge of the daytime and also involves a proximity of the night. Note that twilight is considered part of the night as per Quran.
To clarify this timed-salat begins at morning twilight and ends when any part of the sun first appears above the horizon (i.e. end of morning twilight)
salat al isha / salat (of) the dusk/evening
As its name suggests it is done around dusk (evening twilight). This can correctly be deemed one edge of the daytime and also involves the proximities of the night. Note that twilight is considered part of the night as per Quran.
To clarify this timed-salat begins at evening twilight and ends with dark night (i.e. end of evening twilight).
This satisfies the Arabic plural "zulafan" in 11114 as these two salat time-ranges include morning twilight, evening twilight and a small part of dark night, i.e. 3 proximal parts of the night.

The article also references this article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

So, if one does not care about consistency, having a time-range, logic, the Arabic then yes they can interpret it in multiple different ways.

The challenge has been set in the article, quote

The Challenge
If you find an error/flaw in the argument above you will be eligible for $250 USD per error/flaw or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case. Please post any claimed flaws in this thread, thanks. Valid errors/flaws will be determined by the author.

It's been 5 years and nothing so far.

shukri

The article is very clear

I think for you the verse 11114 just indicates two salat not three
AND chatGPT has given the wrong views!
Am I right!

ChatGPT's Critique in full
The Arabic word "zulafan" is a plural that can mean "at or near" or "close to," but it does not explicitly specify "three or more" times. Classical Arabic lexicons often interpret "zulafan" as "near" or "close to," which may include the beginning or end of a period, rather than discrete times.
Your interpretation that "zulafan" implies a minimum of three times (morning, evening, and a small part of the night) relies on a specific linguistic and contextual framework. Some scholars might see "zulafan" as indicating proximity rather than multiple distinct times.
Potential flaw The assumption that "zulafan" necessarily indicates multiple distinct times may be overstated; it could be read as emphasizing the importance of prayers near or at the edges.

shukri

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article
11114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

For me, I choose two instead of three

Why?

Because the answer is lies on the analysis of the first two phrases of the verse 11114
11114 Observe the Salat at the two ends of the day ; and 'zulfan min al-layl' (during the near parts of the night / proximal parts of the night) ....
(َأَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ إِنَّ الحَسَنٰتِ يُذهِبنَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ ذٰلِكَ ذِكرىٰ لِلذّٰكِرينَ)

The Analysis
The first phrase i.e. أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ (Observe the salat at the two ends of the day)
We see the first phrase speaks about salat at two ends of the day viz. salat fajr (morning twilight) and salat isha (evening twilight)
Crystal clear and indisputable, right!

*Note
The name for salat isha in the Quran is equivalent to salat maghrib in sunni practice
i.e. the timeframe for the salat isha is equivalent to salat maghrib for sunni.

The second phrase i.e. وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ (and 'zulfan min al-layl&#39.
This is the one which invites various interpretations

(1) Some say it speaks about three salat i.e. two salat at the ends of the day plus one additional salat during the night, a total of three salat.
(2) The others say this phrase links to the description of the subject of the first phrase which is the two salat rather than referring to an additional third salat.
In other words the first phrase and the second phrase link together to define the exact times of the two salat in the first phrase.

How to solve the dispute?

Since chatGPT i see lean towards second opinion
I make mathematical analysis on verse 11114 to find the solution, if possible

*Note
Mathematical analysis is done in the same way given on #Reply 11

We take the dispute phrase i.e. وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ, as our study case
(َأَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ إِنَّ الحَسَنٰتِ يُذهِبنَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ ذٰلِكَ ذِكرىٰ لِلذّٰكِرينَ)

وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ (wa zulfan minal lail) ... gv = 285
AND 285 --> 2+8+5 = 15

AND then we take the twilights' time of two intrinsic salats in phrase "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ" viz. al-fajr and al-isha

الفَجرِ (al-fajr) ... gv = 314
العِشاءِ (al-isha) ... gv = 403

Then we add-up both gvs
314 + 403 = 717
AND 717 --> 7+1+7 = 15

(Indication Since the add-up gv for words "al-fajr & al-isha i.e. the two twilights' time" and the gv for phrase "وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ" give the same digit of 15, we can conclude that the phrase "wa zulfan minal lail" is the description of twilights' time of "two salat at the ends of the day" mentioned in the first phrase i.e. "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ" and NOT meant to describe the emerging of third salat)

Just my take!
AND for further elaboration, please see this link
https//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html (THIRD Word Definitions)

Thank you.
So long!

Wakas

You have to understand the limitations of chat gpt.

chat gpt uses the accessible info out that's there, especially the mainstream info.

For example, when i asked it it clearly states "zulafan" is a plural. In Arabic a plural is 3 or more. It's not like English which could mean 2 or more.

If you read the linked to article that I showed you it points out the flaws of the other interpretations.

e.g. in brief

Those who take the plural zulafan to mean one salat. Obvious problem.

Those who take the plural zulafan to mean other salat (not linked to the two/both edges of the day)
The obvious problem here is that the word zulafan means nearness/proximity, well the obvious question to ask is near/proximal to what? The verse tells us! There is no need for any maths.

Another interesting question to ponder over is, is it actually possible to interpret it any other way IF one has to respect consistency, logic and the Arabic?
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
I haven't found an alternative.

jkhan

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article
11114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

Note
I do not know arabic and you know that

Thank you.

Dear Shukri...

In Quranic tone, there is no ritual PRAYER.. It's all a misconception. 11114 does not talk about the timing of PRAYER. If possible, carefully read with any translation of verses 11112-113 and get the grip of them, then read 11114. Of course not any translation but what I understood of the verse.. here you are.. 11114 But, undertake the state of interactions of the counter-proceedings, yet proximities through the anxieties. Verily, the state of equitability would be seizing the state of wickedness. Such is a consideration for the concentrated ones. ... It is a contextual verse if you are able to comprehend it.. It is very tough to you unless you seek guidance from Allah and step into it...

shukri

Dear Shukri...

In Quranic tone, there is no ritual PRAYER.. It's all a misconception. 11114 does not talk about the timing of PRAYER. If possible, carefully read with any translation of verses 11112-113 and get the grip of them, then read 11114. Of course not any translation but what I understood of the verse.. here you are.. 11114 But, undertake the state of interactions of the counter-proceedings, yet proximities through the anxieties. Verily, the state of equitability would be seizing the state of wickedness. Such is a consideration for the concentrated ones. ... It is a contextual verse if you are able to comprehend it.. It is very tough to you unless you seek guidance from Allah and step into it...

A new, fresh translation of verse 11114, I suppose!
But I need some time to digest it for sure.

Thanks for the posting, brother!
God bless you.

jkhan

A new, fresh translation of verse 11114, I suppose!
But I need some time to digest it for sure.

Thanks for the posting, brother!
God bless you.

In case you need to know about verses below.. here you are..

1778 State of tenacities out of We already had dispatched before you from our dispatchers. Yet, you would not find a transference for Our state of tenacity.
1778 Undertake the interactions to decline the defiance into the overlapping of the anxieties, while resolving the emergence. Indeed, resolving the emergence is being state of involvement.
1779 Yet, through the anxieties. So, you impact by its additions to you. Probably that your Lord revitalizes your stance, admirable.

Nothing to do with PRAYERS or timing.. all contextual ..

jkhan

Formerly I used to pray 5 times a day as Rashad Khalifa did
But now only 3 times a day

Since the Quran do not specify how to observe salat
I just do it without rakaat

Although i believe Rashad Khalifa was the God's messenger of the covenant (381)
But he reminded us to follow the Quran alone, not him per se!

Since, I have time till I step into chapter 05 translation after a month or so as the Divine caused, I just want to reply some of the concerns here..Look brother Shukri you are confused, neither here nor there.. but you are honest as it sounds..

Late Doctor Rashad Khalifa was never a Rasool of Allah. Don't knock the door of Hell while you prefer life to be pleasant.. Let whatever numerical pattern of the Quran or any book remain as they are.. Yes, your latest messenger RK, never told you to follow him, but he claimed he was a messenger and accept that verse 381 is him and it is a direct following. And you claim he is a messenger of Allah as per his claim, and it is nothing but you follow him though he told you not to follow him.. You should always follow what Allah told you by your own effort, and that's the way.. try your level best to understand 381, if not getting try to read my translation but don't depend yet reflect... It is not Rashad Khalifa in 381. I guarantee you that but you need to reflect.. Also chapter 74 has nothing to do with 19, still if you reflect only.. let me share my old translation of chapter 74

741 O you the scrutinizer.

742 Ratify, then avow.

743 By your Lord, then enforce.

744 And replenish you, then cleanse.

745 And the impurity, then forsake.

746 And do not solace overstating.

747 And for the sake of your Lord, then persevere.

748 So when it is inquired through the inquiry.

749 Then that is the time of a difficult day.

7410 Upon the rejectors beyond relief.

7411 Leave it to me by one that I shared exclusiveness.

7412 And I had assigned for him continuous wealth.

7413 And involving children.

7414 And I had accustomed to him habituating.

7415 Subsequently, he aspires that I expand.

7416 Never, that he was to our explications, of assessment.

7417 I will task him uphill.

7418 Verily, he pondered and determined.

7419 So, he had wrestled with how he determined.

7420 Later, he had wrestled with how he determined.

7421 Subsequently, he eased.

7422 Later, he glowered and dismayed.

7423 Subsequently, he retreated and arrogated.

7424 Then he said that this is except a trail of sorcery.

7425 That this is save sayings of the mortal.

7426 I will let him suffer scorching.

7427 And what had acquainted you with what scorching is?

7428 Neither lasting nor leaving.

7429 A steaming to the mortal.

7430 At its prime (thisat) effect (ashara).

7431 And not we assigned mates of the Hell except the earned ones/possessed ones(malika), and not We cited their allocation (iddathHum) except trial/temptation for the ones who rejected; perhaps the ones who were rendered the ordainment convince, or the ones who professed enhance faith….”

I know it is your life and you are accountable for whatever you do in life, but this is a forum and I share what I found to be true... But seek the truth from Allah and seek the guidance too.. I only share knowledge.. scrutinize it, and verify..

Remember .. if you have never read Al Quran, Allah won't punish you, I am absolutely sure of it, unless you never ascribed to Him while you remained an ethical person.. There is nothing more from the Quran than that.. But, after reading the Quran and if you happen to take such and such, then you are seriously accountable and subjected to questions..

You are bothered of chapter 9 missing bismillah.. who knows, that it is chapter 9 or continuation of chapter 8.. Allah never has promised that He would preserve a written Al Quran / The resolution for us in this era.. We are not such people who got the mercy of Allah to have revealed through a living Rasool and listening to Allah's words.. But we are merciful that we are living in a modern era where you can have knowledge to verify almost everything, and we are not living in a blind era.. Most of what Quran explains is well known to all societies now.. But Al Quran is a miraculous book through which you can get convinced towards our Lord... But it is not necessary that we read this book to near Allah.. It was a book for a people or community who were totally lost to preach A-Z... But in this book, many things are there other than ordainments, but as WISDOM and that's marvelous... For sure Allah did not preserve manually any of His books, neither Torah or Quran.. but something is still remaining with us.. We have no right to judge that Torah is wrong or Al Quran is wrong.. Just get the message from them.. The right path is inbuilt for civilized societies, when you follow, you will know it.. It means guidance of Allah has reached this modern era already, but they don't follow it... It is not from Quran we will be questioned and is impossible while the book is in Arabic and Allah questions us why not follow Al Quran.. no way.. Bro we are inbuilt and we are modern.. yes past nations were given extra mercy by Allah through Rasools.. They will get their compensation in either way for that.. But we are not exempted but we won't be questioned through Al Quran.. But read this book it is a mercy who comprehended it..

shukri

My brief Comments
(1) Rashad Khalifa said "follow the Quran alone, not him per se!" meaning he is not infallible!

(2) Additional proof that Rashad Khalifa is the messenger in verse 381
381 And God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the Book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you affirming what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" They said "We testify." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
--> 3+8+1 = 12

The names of prophets specifically mentioned in verse 337 are
337 And when We took from the prophets their covenant, and from you (Muhammad). And from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary-We took from them a solemn covenant.

Total gv for all the prophets listed down in 337
Muhammad (مُحَمَّدٌ) = 92
Noah (نوحٍ) = 64
Abraham (إِبرٰهيمَ) = 258
Moses (موسىٰ) = 116
Jesus, son of Mary (عيسَى ابنِ مَريَمَ) = 493
--> 92+64+258+116+493 = 1023

If we add-up gv for all the prophets mentioned in verse 337 PLUS gv for "up-coming" messenger of the covenant in verse 381 i.e. Rashad Khalifa "رشاد خليفة" with gv of 1230

We get
--> 1023 +1230 = 2253
AND 2253 --> 2+2+5+3 = 12

(Indication Since the total gv for all the prophets mentioned in verse 337 plus the gv for "upcoming" messenger in verse 381 give the digit of 12, we can assume that RK is a true God's messenger of the covenant in verse 381)

(3) Your translation of verse 7430
7430 At its prime (thisat) effect (ashara)

Verse 7430 is "Muhkamat" verse i.e. straightforward verse
I prefer this verse to be translated as "Over it is nineteen"!

(4) In any decision we take, we are bound to verse 3918!
3918 They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom God has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

Thank you
So long!