108۔۔ سورۃ ٱلْـكَـوْثَرThe ultimate Profundity

Fusion

Mazhar lets be straight here.

You said the Prophet was given "ultimate" or "boundless" knowledge through Al-Kawthar. But that directly goes against what the Quran says in 1785

They ask you about the soul. Say The soul is from the command of my Lord and you have not been given of knowledge except a little.

The question was asked to the Prophet and the answer was revealed through him. If he was excluded from "you have not been given," the verse would have made that clear. But it doesn't. He is part of that "you."

Also in Ch 5449 the Quran says

Indeed, We created everything by measure. That includes revelation. The Quran is a complete and perfect book but its still measured. Not infinite. Not limitless. No human received infinite knowledge. Not even the Prophet.

Saying he was given boundless knowledge is not only unsupported by the Quran it crosses into dangerous territory. Only Allah is limitless. Giving divine traits to anyone else is a serious matter.

Loving and respecting the Prophet is one thing. Turning him into something the Quran itself never describes is another.

Note
And since you often dive into word roots and deeper semantic meanings heres a broader point. The Quran was revealed in Arabic a deep but still finite language. So our understanding is shaped by the limits of Arabic itself. For example in another thread you said hell is eternal, based on several verses and fair enough. But Emre made a good counter to you on that and I tend to agree with him.

Arabic doesn't really have separate words for millions of years versus forever. The same term is used for both, so we rely on context. And when sins happen in a short human life, while rewards are promised tenfold, it makes sense to believe that even hell may eventually end.

At the end of the day, we are not receiving infinite truth we are receiving what Allah chose to reveal to us in a language we can grasp. And that revelation by definition operates within limits not just divine ones, but linguistic ones too.

That’s the test. And also the boundary.

Mazhar

Simple things sometimes become cause of cognitive dissonance.

Source of knowledge is solitary. The Creator. Whatever the Source intends to share that is the ultimate knowledge one can acquire.

No more sharing of knowledge. This what has been shared is ultimate profundity.

Fusion

Thanks Mazhar. I think we have both provided our views clearly. At this point I will take a pause and let others reflect. However I will stick with the view that the Prophet received the final measured and perfect revelation but the term "ultimate knowledge" is reserved for Allah alone.

centi50

I understand your point that Quran is from the source of infinite knowledge and was granted to the Prophet, but the Quran itself draws a clear line

"You have not been given of knowledge except a little." (1785)

That includes the Prophet. Granting the Quran does not mean granting the totality of divine knowledge it contains. The Quran even says clarification is upon Allah not entirely in the Prophet’s control
Ref Quran (75verses 18–19).

Receiving the Quran is not the same as possessing infinite knowledge.

Thats the core point I raised and I will leave it at that.

Salam to All,

I totally agree with you that the prophet was given limited knowledge and not limitless knowledge

God bless

Mazhar

Simple things sometimes become cause of cognitive dissonance.

Source of knowledge is solitary. The Creator. Whatever the Source intends to share that is the ultimate knowledge one can acquire.

No more sharing of knowledge. This what has been shared is ultimate profundity.

Translation

إِنَّـآ أَعْطَيْنَٟكَ ٱلْـكَـوْثَرَ ١
فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَٱنْحَرْ ٢
إِنَّ شَانِئَكَ هُوَ ٱلْأَبْتَـرُ ٣
• Our Majesty have since granted you the Messenger the unique - ultimate profundity.
Thereby, your profound desire of knowing the absolute truth fulfilled (937), do express acknowledgement and appreciation for your Sustainer Lord; and continue mastering the affairs with the given profundity.
It is a certain fact about whoever is maligner and depreciator of you the Messenger he stands doomed permanently.

AI Overview

"Ultimate profundity" refers to the deepest, most profound level of understanding or wisdom, often associated with philosophical or spiritual concepts. It can also refer to a state of being or a profound experience that reveals deep truths or insights. The term suggests a quality of depth, wisdom, or meaningfulness that is transformative.

jkhan

It is unfortunate to state that your traditional mindset and upbringing have layered your understanding, even though you continue to research the Qur’an and claim to follow it alone. Your repeated use of the traditional phrase “sallallahu alaihi wasallam” after the name of the Rasul Muhammad is clear evidence of this influence (which distorts the meaning of 3356), while you completely overlook 3343.
This is why you continue trying to elevate Muhammad to a grand status, despite his own assertion that he was merely a human being like any other (416), and that he did not know the ghaib (profundity or the extremity) as stated in 7188. He is simply a rasul, as emphasized in 3340.
Even the remarkable individual in the story with Musa—who appeared to know the future to a certain extent—was only granted knowledge and mercy by the Divine (1865). Nothing about him was inherently special; it was acquired knowledge at a great level.
Let us not forget that there are among the people those who truly conscientize—they are the ulu al-albab, people of deep understanding. They reflect profoundly and never give up until clarity reaches them.
Chapter 108 is the same chapter that traditionalists have used to elevate Muhammad to a heightened level, driven by assumption and embellished hadiths. You are doing something similar—claiming to stay within the Qur’an but distorting its pure meaning, even going so far as to insert words into the text that are not there.
The ghaib refers to profundity or extremity, but not necessarily the ultimate, unless explicitly stated as such. The Divine may grant aspects of the ghaib to certain individuals who strive for it diligently, but not in its entirety. Muhammad is never mentioned among those granted such knowledge. In fact, he is made to declare that he does not possess the ghaib.

Mazhar

jkhan

Will you translate it

وَمَا هُوَ عَلَـى ٱلْغَيْبِ بِضَنِيـنٛ ٢٤

jkhan

jkhan

Will you translate it

وَمَا هُوَ عَلَـى ٱلْغَيْبِ بِضَنِيـنٛ ٢٤

Whatever the support you are trying to gather in favor of your claim, won’t help out.. Al Quran is clear from your own stance of elevating a human being..
Regarding the translation request of a single verse is a terrible option, especially from a chapter that is small and poetic. For instance, if you had asked me to translate chapter 7430 ‘alaiha thisat ashara’, easily one would say ‘over it is nineteen’ … That won’t help at all.. But, when one reads the entire chapter with comprehensive research, the meaning is entirely different, and it stands as 7430 ‘At its prime effect’ or ‘Upon/over its prime effect’..
So your request of 8124 can horribly go wrong for me unless I research the complete chapter 81, and when I reach verse 8124, then I would perfectly know what the verse speaks of.. but with slight research…

8122 And not your mate with passion.
8123 But, certainly had already sensed it with the vantage of the manifestation.
8124 Yet not, he is upon the extremity of tenacity.
8125 Even not he, by assertion of a loathsome conspirator.

22 He is not emotionally biased or mentally unstable (v.22).
23 He has deeply perceived the revelation from a clear position of insight/viewpoint (v.23).
24 He is not obstinately clinging to Divine knowledge as if it's his own to control
25 Nor is he channeling dark conspiratorial forces (v.25).

If I come from the beginning of the chapter, there is a possibility that I would be slightly changing these four verses, adapting to the true tone of the entire chapter. Yes I read the entire chapter but not researched for translation. Unfortunately, I have not yet translated this chapter fully, not now though.. I have not even touched chapter 06 so far.. so be patient..

Mazhar

Earlier you claimed, quote
"In fact, he is made to declare that he does not possess the ghaib."

You used the word"ghaib". Now you make ghaib as

وَمَا هُوَ عَلَـى ٱلْغَيْبِ بِضَنِيـنٛ ٢٤
8124 Yet not, he is upon the extremity of tenacity.

Does it convey some sensible understanding? If yes what it conveys to you?

And what exactly you understand about the word ٱلْغَيْبِ? How you classify it? What exactly it denotes?

jkhan

Don't waste my time intentionally.. You asked me to translate.. and I did it.. take it or leave it.. it is your choice..

Mazhar