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  4. The moon was split

The moon was split

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    good_logic
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    Peace centi50.

    This has been discussed on numerous occasions in the forum.

    We know the "hour" will be an event in the future. As it approaches the event of the moon will take place according to Qoran.
    So we know the moon event happens after the verse came to the prophet which is after 610 up to where we are now 2021.

    What do you think? Search here or Google search if any information is written about it, then do some checking to see if you agree with any of what is said about i or if you still wait for it to happen

    Then come back to us here and discuss your findings.
    GOD bless you.
    Peace.

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    • J Offline
      J Offline
      jkhan
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      Salam to all

      Al-Qamar 541

      ٱقْتَرَبَتِ ٱلسَّاعَةُ وَٱنشَقَّ ٱلْقَمَرُ

      The Hour has come near, and the moon has split .

      When did this event take place. And if it was futer how can you tell the verse was speaking a future event

      God bless all

      Peace Centi...
      Be patient with my long reply.....

      If anyone say that Isa son of Maryam is the knowledge (Ilm) of the HOUR as it was claimed conventionally then All verses where HOUR (sa'aa) appear are against it...
      Coz Hour is the End of Ending(cluster of devastation)... It's a huge devastating event taking place and people witnessing and going through hard time... Look how followers of Hadith make fun of this verse 4361 .. They say Isa is the knowledge or instead Sign of the Hour and He returns back and live for forty years and so many concocted stories connected to it... But God keeps saying not a single living being has the knowledge of the Hour... I think these conventional Muslims even don't perceive what the Hour is according to Quran...

      7942 " They ask you, , about the Hour when is its arrival?
      In what are you that you should mention it?"

      So clearly God has not given to anyone any clue that how it happens... When it happens?... But All of a sudden while we never perceive that it would happen that day... So Simple...

      But very important that SIGNS / INDICATIONS for the Hour are already happened ... No more..
      4718.. "Then do they await except that the Hour(Sa'aa) should come upon them unexpectedly? But already there have come ITS INDICATIONS...."

      .. INDICATION (FOR) the Hour and KNOWLEDGE (OF) the Hour has a huge difference.. Two different things...

      Coz 4361 God used KNOWLEDGE of the Hour Not INDICATIONS (Ashra) for the Hour..

      So let me turn towards the topic 5401 " The HOUR has drawn near and the Moon has split "... (don't complicate the verse.. Coz it has happened.. So the Hour is nearing)

      So it is very manifest that whatever the INDICATIONS already occurred as per 4718.. One obvious indication without any ambiguous hidden meaning is Split of Moon...
      In 7187 etc, when people asked when its (The Hour's) arrival, Prophet Muhamed could have easily pointed the verse 5401 as a KNOWLEDGE but he was commanded to say instead God only has the knowledge of the Hour... So the verse 5401 is obviously an indication.. And indications happened already as per 4718...

      Since this indication already took place, then the verse 5401 was revealed about it.

      So in my comprehensive understanding all INDICATIONS already have arrived... What they were are not known except split of moon....

      God has called the Hour is NEAR in Quran not only in 5401 but also in other verses as well.. 3363, 4217... Very glaring..

      Nowhere in quran has provided any clue that indications for the Hour are still to occur or come.. if my memory is correct... I also thought upto recent time that there will occur indications for the hour but with the split of moon no indication to occur.. Only the Hour will occur all of a sudden... Let's wait for that in fear... Let's not haste it..

      Finally... 5401 is not a future event or an event which allegedly claimed which took place in 1969... But something has happened during the time of prophet Mohamed to the moon.... That's unfortunately unknown... But I presume that sun and moon were without any patches or blemishes from the day of creation... But moon did split (patches formed) before this verse revealed.. From there onwards, people see the moon same as what we see now with patches... This is my strong belief and I don't see no other option to best suit according to quran...

      Yes one would may raise a question... If all indications have already occurred and if moon was split at the time of Prophet Muhammad then how can God call it Near...well that God only knows... Coz time for him is different to us... When He pointed in Quran the Hour is approaching Near, it is hardly 1 Day elapsed if 1000 years of hours equal to 1 day of God... Well that's near from God's perspective for sure..

      I wonder any of the previous scriptures mentioned that the Hour is near... If any such verses if anyone find pls bringforth for me to study...

      To sum up... we are living from the time of Prophet Muhammad up until now in a period which we can classify without doubt NEAR TO THE HOUR.. but it will happen all of a sudden.. That's inevitable..

      If anyone wait for indications then I am afraid, you won't find a one until the Hour fall upon us.. ...

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      • FusionF Offline
        FusionF Offline
        Fusion
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        I was looking into the moon split and why 541 uses past tense. found an old thread and the last two replies were from my friends jkhan and goodlogic. here is my plain take, mixing what i learned from others with my own reading.

        541-3 reads like something that already happened in the prophets time. it says the hour has drawn near and the moon split, then right away says when they see a sign they turn away and call it magic and follow their desires. that scene fits people on a normal night, not people on the last day. on the last day no one says this is magic.

        Also notice the wording as when the Quran talks about prophet-led miracles it usually names the prophet and says by gods permission (check the verse related to prophet ISA. here it just reports a sign. that sounds like God showed a brief cosmic sign to back the warning about the hour, not a show done on request.

        I am not here to promote hadith for belief or law. but if a public event happened, some historical reports are expected. so i am willing to read the sober ones and ignore the flashy add ons. a few often cited

        ibn masud says the moon split in the prophets time into two parts and he told people to bear witness. quraysh said it was magic and waited for travelers. travelers later said they had seen it too.

        anas b malik says the people of Makah asked for a sign and they saw the moon split, with mount hira visible between the two parts.

        ibn abbas and ibn umar have short lines that the moon split in the prophets time.
        these are simple reports. the sleeve and finger drama stories are absurd so i set them aside

        But then why no global record. it could have been very brief, only visible in some longitudes, no observatories then, no instant communication. a short tear and join would not have to change the moons path...

        Simple reasoning the verse warns that a huge upheaval is coming. showing a quick crack in a big body like the moon right before describing denial is like a sample. it tells people this world is not unbreakable. the big break can come. that reading is clean and fits the flow.

        last point. i am not here to advocate hadith, but if we agree it happened as an event, then people would have seen it, so i think it is fair to read those basic narrations. happy to hear how you read the verse in such situations only.

        By the way
        before closing, i also came across another translation of surah 54. it reads “the hour” as a near social and political upheaval in arabia, and “the moon split” as the fall of quraysh power and their moon emblem torn. verses 2 to 5 are taken as signs already seen in past events, and verse 6 as a call to judgment. i am sharing this as a summary only. it is just one of many translations, not a final word.

        1. The Hour of Revolution (about which they have been warned for a long time) is just around. The power and might of these opposing Arabs will come to an end and their flag (carrying the insignia of the moon) will be torn to pieces.

        2. Many of the signs of the coming revolution have appeared before them, but because of their rebellious attitude they do not seriously ponder over them. Instead they turn away saying, “These are the same old fables that we had been hearing for a longtime.” (4611)

        3. They contradict and belie everything concerning this Revolution and continue to follow their own selfish interests. (And when this is emphasized to them, they ask you to bring forth the doom about which they have been threatened. Do they not know that) The consequences of deeds appear at their appropriate time.

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        • Emre_1974trE Offline
          Emre_1974trE Offline
          Emre_1974tr
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          First, let me state; in my opinion, the event of the splitting of the moon could also be a sign that was to occur after the Prophet. And it may have already happened in our time. For example, some Quranic commentators claim that this verse describes the journey to the Moon, the excavation of soil/rock from there, and its being brought to Earth.

          Apart from this, I recently asked an AI whether such an event is mentioned in non-Islamic historical sources, and I received the following answer

          "1. Local Historical and Archaeological Records in India (Hindu and Regional Sources)
          The Legend of Cheraman Perumal In local history books and archaeological records in the Kerala region (South India) (for example, in the official historical archives of the state of Kerala or local chronicles like "Kerala Pazhama&quot, it is narrated that a king named Cheraman Perumal (circa 7th-8th century CE) "saw the moon split in the sky" and subsequently converted and had a mosque built. This is associated with the Cheraman Juma Mosque (one of the oldest mosques in India), and it is claimed that some sculptures or stone inscriptions contain phrases like "made in the year the moon was split in two."

          Non-Islamic perspective This story appears in Hindu-Buddhist sources (for example, in variations of Sangam literature) as a "celestial event legend," but it is not directly linked to Islam. Modern historians (for example, in reports from the Indian Council of Historical Research) interpret this as a local myth or a result of Arab influences through trade. Related inscriptions have been found in archaeological excavations (e.g., 20th-century digs), but these are generally calendrical notes—not a miraculous splitting. Scientifically, it could have been a lunar eclipse or an optical illusion.

          1. Ancient Chinese Astronomical Records
            In China's official historical works (e.g., the "Twenty-Four Histories" series, particularly the chronicles of the Han Dynasty or works like "Shiji&quot, celestial events from periods corresponding to the 7th century CE were recorded in detail. For instance, there are vague statements about the moon appearing "divided" or "fragmented" (e.g., a record of a "lunar anomaly" around 618 CE).

          Non-Islamic perspective These records come from the astronomical archives of the Chinese Empire (in modern analyses by institutions like the Beijing Observatory) and are generally classified as lunar eclipses, comets, or meteor showers. In joint studies by NASA and the Chinese Academy of Sciences (e.g., in databases of ancient celestial events), there is no event like the "splitting of the moon"; if any exist, they are considered natural phenomena. Historians (such as Joseph Needham in his book "Science and Civilisation in China&quot treat these as scientific observations, not connecting them to a religious miracle.

          1. European Medieval Chronicles
            The Record of Gervase of Canterbury (117 In England, the chronicle of Gervase, a monk at Canterbury Monastery (original texts preserved in The National Archives, UK), describes the moon "spewing fire, splitting in two," and then rejoining in 1178. This was observed by five monks and described in detail.

          Non-Islamic perspective Modern astronomers (for example, in NASA's lunar geology reports or articles in the journal "Nature&quot interpret this as a meteorite impact on the lunar surface—associating it with the formation of the Giordano Bruno crater. The date does not align with the Prophet's era (500 years later), but some commentaries attempt to draw a parallel. This is a non-Islamic source (a Christian monastic chronicle) and is scientifically considered a natural event.

          1. Maya and Other Ancient American Records
            In Mayan codices (e.g., the Dresden Codex, 11th-12th century CE, currently at the Dresden State Library), there are symbolic drawings of a "split moon." These represent lunar phases or eclipses.

          Non-Islamic perspective Experts in Mayan astronomy (e.g., in reports from the Smithsonian Institution or the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico) view these as mythological calendar events—for example, stories of the moon goddess Ix Chel. There is no historical overlap (the Mayan period is before/after the Prophet), and any connection is speculative. Similarly, Inca myths (e.g., in Spanish colonial chronicles, such as the works of Garcilaso de la Vega) contain legends of the moon "shattering," but these are local mythology.

          1. Modern Scientific and Astronomical Sources (NASA, ESO, etc.)
            In the reports from NASA's lunar missions (Apollo, Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter), fissures on the lunar surface (rilles, e.g., Ariadaeus Rille) have been recorded. Some popular claims interpret these as "scars from the splitting of the moon."

          Non-Islamic perspective In official NASA statements (on nasa.gov and in scientific papers, e.g., reports from the 2010s-2020s), these are defined as volcanic or tectonic formations dating back billions of years. No official document links them to a miracle; this is considered an urban legend. Similarly, institutions like the European Space Agency (ESA) or TÜBİTAK explain ancient celestial events as natural phenomena (e.g., supernovas or comets).

          General Assessment
          Lack of Evidence In non-Islamic sources (historical, archaeological, or scientific), there is no reliable observational record directly pointing to the Shaqq-al-Qamar (the splitting of the moon). Those that exist (e.g., Chinese or European chronicles) are interpreted as natural events and do not align historically with the Prophet's era. Modern historians (e.g., in the Encyclopedia Britannica or Oxford historical encyclopedias) classify this as a "religious narrative," not as a global astronomical event.

          Why Are There Few Records? Although celestial events were recorded in the ancient world (e.g., on Babylonian tablets or in Greek astronomical works), something as dramatic as the "splitting of the moon" has not been documented. If it were a real physical event, it would have had widespread effects on Earth (earthquakes, tidal waves), which have not been recorded.

          Source Recommendations For more detail from a non-Islamic perspective, you can review "The History of Astronomy" (by John Lankford), the "Chinese Astronomical Records" (IAU database), or NASA's lunar geology pages."

          GROK 4

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          • FusionF Offline
            FusionF Offline
            Fusion
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            Thanks Emre, I understand your perspective, but the past tense in 541 still suggests the event occurred in the Prophet’s time, not the future. The reference to people calling it "magic" immediately afterward fits with something that happened in their time, not during the modern times.

            As for the historical sources I took the liberty to also use AI similar to yours especially your references to Kerala story is quite interesting.

            In the end, we may find many different stories and interpretations offered to explain or support the event, but what remains unchanged is the Word of God; how we understand or interpret it is ultimately a matter of individual intellect, and as Jkhan rightly said, the truth of it will be known with certainty only when the Hour comes .

            Following is from the AI research based on the point "Investigate whether the Cheraman Perumal moon-splitting story is rooted in historical truth or a cultural legend, particularly focusing on the Kerala region’s perspective. Provide references for each part of the research to support the conclusions, which can be shared in the forum"

            Investigating the Cheraman Perumal Moon‑Splitting Legend
            Introduction
            The Cheraman Perumal moon‑splitting story is a popular legend in Kerala. According to the tale, a Chera king (often called Cheraman Perumal) witnessed the moon split, sought an explanation from Arab merchants, travelled to Mecca, met the Prophet Muhammad, converted to Islam and later sent Islamic envoys back to Kerala. This investigation examines whether the story reflects a real historical event or a later legend. It looks at the historical evidence, the versions of the story in early texts, the cultural context of Kerala, possible natural explanations, and modern scholarly assessments.

            1. Historical background of Cheraman Perumal and the alleged conversion
              Chera kings and the “Perumal” title. Perumal is a title rather than a unique name; many Chera rulers used it
              historicalleys.blogspot.com
              . Research by K.V. Krishna Ayyar and M.G.S. Narayanan, summarised on the Historic Alleys site, notes that several Perumal rulers existed over centuries; multiple traditions developed around them, leading to confusion about which “Perumal” the legends refer to
              historicalleys.blogspot.com
              .

            Absence of contemporary records. Modern historians note that no contemporaneous sources from the 7th–8th centuries mention a Chera king converting to Islam. Roxani Eleni Margariti, quoted in the New Indian Express, says the story’s timeline varies widely; some traditions place the conversion in the 7th century, others in the 8th or 12th
            newindianexpress.com
            . The same article points out there are two versions—one in which the king meets the Prophet and another in which he does not—and that the king reportedly died in Oman, leaving no epigraphic evidence
            newindianexpress.com
            .

            1. Early references to the conversion story (text‑based summary)
              Several later texts recount the Cheraman Perumal legend, but they were all written centuries after the alleged event

            Qiṣṣat Shakarwatī Farmāḍ An undated Arabic manuscript, probably composed between the 12th and 16th centuries. It provides the oldest detailed narrative of the legend, describing a ruler who saw the moon split, divided his kingdom and travelled to Arabia where he converted to Islam and died on the return journey
            en.wikipedia.org
            . Scholars note that the manuscript surfaced long after the Prophet’s time and cannot be considered contemporary evidence
            en.wikipedia.org
            .

            Tuhfat al‑Mujāhidīn by Zayn al‑Dīn al‑Makhdoūm II (c. 1583 CE) Written in Arabic about the Portuguese threat on the Malabar Coast. It repeats the Cheraman Perumal conversion story but, according to historian Sebastian Prange, places the conversion about two centuries after the Prophet
            h-net.org
            . The text acknowledges the story was well known in Kerala but does not treat it as factual
            h-net.org
            .

            Keralolpatti A 17th–18th‑century Malayalam chronicle containing myths and genealogies. Historic Alleys notes that it presents disjointed accounts and inconsistent dates for Perumal rulers, and does not provide verifiable evidence for a 7th‑century conversion
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            .

            Portuguese accounts (Duarte Barbosa, c. 1510) Barbosa’s travelogue mentions a Malabar king who sailed to Mecca and converted to Islam in the tenth century. Dr. Haseena V.A. notes that Barbosa’s account is the first written record of a Kerala king meeting the Prophet, but he places the event centuries after Muhammad
            sacredfootsteps.com
            . Later Portuguese, Dutch and Malayalam sources repeat variants with discrepancies
            sacredfootsteps.com
            .

            Court chronicles of Calicut and Cochin (17th–18th centuries) These chronicles incorporate versions of the legend that differ in names, dates and details
            sacredfootsteps.com
            , indicating the story evolved through oral tradition rather than deriving from a single historical event.

            1. Analysis of source versions
              Moon‑splitting miracle and conversion. In most versions, the king sees the moon split, becomes curious, hears from Arab merchants that Muhammad performed the miracle, abdicates his throne, travels to Arabia and converts
              sacredfootsteps.com
              . Dr. Haseena emphasises that this rendition is popular but not historically verifiable
              sacredfootsteps.com
              .

            Conflicting identities and dates. Research summarised on Historic Alleys shows that Zainuddin (author of Tuhfat al‑Mujāhidīn) places the conversion in the 9th century, while other storytellers ascribe it to the Prophet’s lifetime
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . Ibn Battuta (14th century) mentions a king of Balipatanam converting to Islam
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . Muslim historian Ferishta (17th century) believed a Zamorin of Calicut converted at the end of the 9th century
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . Christian sources later claimed a Perumal converted to Christianity
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . Such divergence suggests oral traditions adapted the story for different audiences.

            Documents associated with the mosque. Stories often claim that Cheraman Perumal wrote letters authorising construction of the Cheraman Juma Masjid. Sacred Footsteps notes that the mosque management maintains part of the building dates to 629 CE
            sacredfootsteps.com
            , yet acknowledges there is no clear historical proof for this date
            sacredfootsteps.com
            . Subsequent versions of the legend appear in Portuguese, Dutch and Malayalam sources from the 16th and 17th centuries, again indicating the story’s late emergence
            sacredfootsteps.com
            .

            1. Cultural and religious context in Kerala
              Use of the legend by later communities. Scholars argue that the moon‑splitting legend served socio‑political functions. A review of Sebastian Prange’s Monsoon Islam explains that the story likely arose between the 12th and 14th centuries and was used by Malabar’s Muslim communities to claim status and legitimacy in a competitive religious environment
              h-net.org
              . Roxani Eleni Margariti notes that oral traditions about Cheraman Perumal are still embedded in Kerala’s consciousness, yet no epigraphic evidence links the king to an early mosque
              newindianexpress.com
              .

            Multiple religious appropriations. Historic Alleys points out that Perumal legends were adapted by Jains, Buddhists, Christians and Muslims, with each community creating a conversion narrative to its own faith
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . S.N. Sadasivan argues that the proliferation of Perumal legends reflects how Brahmin elites used the figure to assert social control and how later communities reused the story for legitimacy
            swarajyamag.com
            .

            Modern museum and heritage projects. The New Indian Express reports on the Cheraman Islamic Heritage Museum’s digitisation project. Researchers there acknowledge that the origin of Islam in Kerala remains obscure; they examined Tuhfat al‑Mujāhidīn but found little evidence for early Islamic presence
            newindianexpress.com
            . Team member P.A. Muhammad Saeed suggests the lore may reflect a king searching for a new religion after Buddhism’s decline, yet the timeline remains uncertain
            newindianexpress.com
            . A 2025 news article on the renovation of the Cheraman Juma Masjid repeats the legend—that the king saw a vision of the moon splitting and rejoining, consulted Arab traders, travelled to Arabia, embraced Islam and instructed his successors to build the mosque—but offers no new historical evidence
            radiancenews.com
            .

            1. Natural and scientific explanations for the “moon‑splitting”
              Scientific assessment of lunar geology. NASA scientists note that long lunar grooves (rilles) such as Rima Ariadaeus are natural faults and do not represent the Moon being physically split
              en.wikipedia.org
              . NASA scientist Brad Bailey states “No current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was split into two (or more) parts and then reassembled at any point in the past”
              en.wikipedia.org
              .

            Medieval observations of lunar phenomena. In 1178 CE, English monk Gervase of Canterbury recorded that the Moon’s “upper horn split in two” and a flaming torch burst forth. Modern astronomers interpret this as a meteor or asteroid impact
            education.nationalgeographic.org
            . They note that such an impact should have produced meteor storms on Earth; the lack of other observations suggests the monks saw a meteor entering Earth’s atmosphere
            education.nationalgeographic.org
            . This shows that medieval descriptions of a “split” moon often refer to natural phenomena rather than a permanent division.

            1. Modern historical and scholarly perspectives
              Historians dismiss the story as anachronistic. Kerala historian A. Sreedhara Menon concludes that the Cheraman legend is a figment of early writers’ imaginations and calls it an anachronism
              catholic.com
              . Menon points out that early Muslim travellers to Kerala, such as Sulaiman (851 CE), reported no conversions
              catholic.com
              .

            Sebastian Prange and others. In Monsoon Islam (201, Prange treats the Cheraman Perumal story as part of a story‑world reflecting Kerala Muslims’ aspirations and stresses there is no epigraphic record of a Chera king contemporaneous with Muhammad
            h-net.org
            . The H‑Net review notes that other historians, including Padmanabha Menon and Elamkulam Kunjan Pilla, also reject the legend’s historicity
            h-net.org
            .

            S.N. Sadasivan’s analysis. In his Social History of India, Sadasivan argues that both Muslim and Christian Perumal legends are fabrications created by Brahmin elites and later appropriated by other communities. He notes the wide time gaps (100–400 years) between versions and the absence of consistent genealogies
            swarajyamag.com
            .

            Modern researchers at the Cheraman museum. Scholars associated with the Cheraman Islamic Heritage Museum say the story’s chronology is unclear. Researcher H.M. Ilias notes that the timeline varies between the 7th, 8th and 12th centuries, and the team found no definitive evidence of a 7th‑century conversion
            newindianexpress.com
            .

            Conclusion
            The Cheraman Perumal moon‑splitting story is primarily a cultural legend rather than a documented historical event. Key points include

            No contemporary evidence there are no 7th‑ or 8th‑century records of a Chera king witnessing a split moon and converting to Islam. The earliest written versions appear in texts from the 12th–17th centuries
            en.wikipedia.org
            sacredfootsteps.com
            .

            Inconsistent narratives later texts and oral traditions provide contradictory names, dates and details; some identify the convert as a king of Balipatanam or a Zamorin of Calicut; others depict the same ruler embracing Christianity or dying during a pilgrimage
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            . These inconsistencies suggest the story evolved through folklore rather than historical memory.

            Symbolic and socio‑political functions modern scholars argue the legend helped Kerala’s Muslim communities assert a prestigious origin and integrate local history with the early Islamic narrative
            h-net.org
            . Similar appropriation by other religious groups indicates the Perumal figure served as a versatile symbol
            historicalleys.blogspot.com
            .

            Scientific evidence lunar geology shows no sign of the Moon ever having been physically split, and NASA explicitly states there is no evidence for such an event
            en.wikipedia.org
            . Medieval reports of the Moon “splitting” are better explained by meteor impacts or optical phenomena
            education.nationalgeographic.org
            .

            Modern scholarly consensus historians such as A. Sreedhara Menon, Sebastian Prange and S.N. Sadasivan consider the legend anachronistic or mythical
            catholic.com
            h-net.org
            . Researchers at the Cheraman museum also caution that the timeline is uncertain and unsupported by archaeological evidence
            newindianexpress.com
            .

            Together, these findings indicate that the Cheraman Perumal moon‑splitting story reflects Kerala’s rich cultural imagination and the desire of different communities to root their faiths in antiquity, but there is no historical or scientific basis for a 7th‑century king witnessing a cosmic miracle and converting to Islam.

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            • Emre_1974trE Offline
              Emre_1974trE Offline
              Emre_1974tr
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Hello Fusion; the verses sometimes narrate future events as if they were in the past because for God, there is no difference between the future and the past. Future events can also be described using different verb tenses (past, present, simple present). We see examples of this in the descriptions of the hereafter. So, it is possible that this event could still be in the future or happening in the present.

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              • G Offline
                G Offline
                good_logic
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                Also, the use of the past tense in this context, which gives the approaching of the hour as a reference point, points to an event that happens before it. i.e a time up to the hour, not during or after.

                So what do we know , us this generation, about the splitting of the moon? We are still at a time that is approaching the hour.

                How about this evidence, clear, confirmed by the generation that went to the moon and those after,including our generation now

                Saturn V AS-506 launched Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, at 133200 UTC (93200 EDT). At 13.2 seconds into the flight, the launch vehicle began to roll into its flight azimuth of 72.058°. Full shutdown of the first-stage engines occurred about 2 minutes and 42 seconds into the mission, followed by separation of the S-IC and ignition of the S-II engines. The second stage engines then cut off and separated at about 9 minutes and 8 seconds, allowing the first ignition of the S-IVB engine a few seconds later.

                Apollo 11 entered a near-circular Earth orbit at an altitude of 100.4 nautical miles (185.9 km) by 98.9 nautical miles (183.2 km), twelve minutes into its flight. After one and a half orbits, a second ignition of the S-IVB engine pushed the spacecraft onto its trajectory toward the Moon with the trans-lunar injection (TLI) burn at 162213 UTC. About 30 minutes later, with Collins in the left seat and at the controls, the transposition, docking, and extraction maneuver was performed. This involved separating Columbia from the spent S-IVB stage, turning around, and docking with Eagle still attached to the stage. After the LM was extracted, the combined spacecraft headed for the Moon, while the rocket stage flew on a trajectory past the Moon. This was done to avoid the third stage colliding with the spacecraft, the Earth, or the Moon. A slingshot effect from passing around the Moon threw it into an orbit around the Sun.

                On July 19 at 172150 UTC, Apollo 11 passed behind the Moon and fired its service propulsion engine to enter lunar orbit. In the thirty orbits that followed, the crew saw passing views of their landing site in the southern Sea of Tranquility about 12 miles (19 km) southwest of the crater Sabine D. The site was selected in part because it had been characterized as relatively flat and smooth by the automated Ranger 8 and Surveyor 5 landers and the Lunar Orbiter mapping spacecraft, and because it was unlikely to present major landing or EVA challenges. It lay about 25 kilometers (16 mi) southeast of the Surveyor 5 landing site, and 68 kilometers (42 mi) southwest of Ranger 8's crash site.

                At 125200 UTC on July 20, Aldrin and Armstrong entered Eagle, and began the final preparations for lunar descent. At 174400 Eagle separated from Columbia. Collins, alone aboard Columbia, inspected Eagle as it pirouetted before him to ensure the craft was not damaged, and that the landing gear was correctly deployed. Armstrong exclaimed "The Eagle has wings!"

                As the descent began, Armstrong and Aldrin found themselves passing landmarks on the surface two or three seconds early, and reported that they were "long"; they would land miles west of their target point. Eagle was traveling too fast. The problem could have been mascons—concen�tra�tions of high mass in a region or regions of the Moon's crust that contains a gravitational anomaly, potentially altering Eagle's trajectory. Flight Director Gene Kranz speculated that it could have resulted from extra air pressure in the docking tunnel, or a result of Eagle's pirouette maneuver.

                Eagle landed at 201740 UTC on Sunday July 20 with 216 pounds (98 kg) of usable fuel remaining. Information available to the crew and mission controllers during the landing showed the LM had enough fuel for another 25 seconds of powered flight before an abort without touchdown would have become unsafe, but post-mission analysis showed that the real figure was probably closer to 50 seconds. Apollo 11 landed with less fuel than most subsequent missions, and the astronauts encountered a premature low fuel warning. This was later found to be the result of the propellant sloshing more than expected, uncovering a fuel sensor. On subsequent missions, extra anti-slosh baffles were added to the tanks to prevent this.
                ...
                The lunar mission left the moon with Moon rocks and other materials for analysis at 15401. That is when the moon was split.( GOD left us His evidence- Arranged the prophesy is Surah 5401- synchronised with the exact minutes of the world s clocks- Hours differ throughout the world)
                Seen by millions ,evidenced by Science and witnessed by all the majority of the world s generation of 1969.
                Thank you brothers.
                GOD bless you.
                Peace.

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                • FusionF Offline
                  FusionF Offline
                  Fusion
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Bother GL, Linking the moon splitting event with the Apollo 11 mission, I would like to point out something regarding the next verse in 541, where it mentions that people would call the event magic. This suggests that, even if the event is witnessed globally, people will still deny or reject it.

                  In the case of the Apollo mission while many accepted it as a scientific achievement, there are still conspiracy theories that label it as a fabrication, could this be what the verse is referring to? It seems the Quran is indicating that such an event wouldn’t be a matter of faith for everyone, even if the evidence is clear.
                  I am curious about your thoughts on this.

                  And also one more point to ponder
                  Looking at verses 541-3, God says

                  ٱقْتَرَبَتِ ٱلسَّاعَةُ وَٱنشَقَّ ٱلْقَمَرُ
                  وَإِن يَرَوْا۟ ءَايَةًۭ يُعْرِضُوا۟ وَيَقُولُوا۟ سِحْرٌۭ مُّسْتَمِرٌّۭ
                  وَكَذَّبُوا۟ وَٱتَّبَعُوٓا۟ أَهْوَآءَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلُّ أَمْرٍۢ مُّسْتَقِرٌّۭ

                  Aren’t we supposed to read these verses in context? do you think the Apollo mission fits into verses 2 and 3?

                  I also acknowledge the different interpretations of the moon splitting by you, Emre, and Jkhan. I believe that every generation as they encounter such verses, can interpret them according to their own context and knowledge ensuring the Quran remains relevant and applicable across all times.

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                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    good_logic
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    Brother Fusion.

                    Only 5401 is speaking about the event,- Moon split- after that-4502-is - Yaraou Atyatin- Then they see the sign/miracle- The event of the sign/miracle comes after 5401.

                    So the Moon has split- 1969- then people will see the evidence of the Qoran s mathematical composition- 1974- GOD is talking to the Scientific/technology/internet generations after the moon mission.

                    Then they saw a sign/miracle;- GOD s Mathematical composition-1974- - but they turned away and said, "Old magic."
                    وَإِن يَرَوا ءايَةً يُعرِضوا وَيَقولوا سِحرٌ مُستَمِرٌّ
                    They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions.
                    وَكَذَّبوا وَاتَّبَعوا أَهواءَهُم وَكُلُّ أَمرٍ مُستَقِرٌّ
                    Sufficient warnings have been delivered to alert them.
                    وَلَقَد جاءَهُم مِنَ الأَنباءِ ما فيهِ مُزدَجَرٌ

                    i.e they refuse to accept the message-GOD Alone and Qoran alone.

                    Look here after the warnings about past generations and their disbelievers GOD is saying to us

                    They rejected all our signs. Consequently, we requited them as an Almighty, Omnipotent should.
                    كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا كُلِّها فَأَخَذنٰهُم أَخذَ عَزيزٍ مُقتَدِرٍ

                    Now GOD addresses all the generations of the technology /internet, those who know about the moon split including us and those that come after us

                    Are your disbelievers better than those disbelievers? Have you been absolved by the scripture?
                    أَكُفّارُكُم خَيرٌ مِن أُولٰئِكُم أَم لَكُم بَراءَةٌ فِى الزُّبُرِ
                    Perhaps they think, "We will be the winners."
                    أَم يَقولونَ نَحنُ جَميعٌ مُنتَصِرٌ
                    All of them will be defeated; they will turn around and flee.
                    سَيُهزَمُ الجَمعُ وَيُوَلّونَ الدُّبُرَ
                    The Hour is awaiting them, and the Hour is far worse and more painful.
                    بَلِ السّاعَةُ مَوعِدُهُم وَالسّاعَةُ أَدهىٰ وَأَمَرُّ

                    Or why do you think GOD is reminding us and the generations after us about Qoran after each warning about a past people and their messenger/s?

                    We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
                    وَلَقَد يَسَّرنَا القُرءانَ لِلذِّكرِ فَهَل مِن مُدَّكِرٍ

                    Disbelievers in the verses you mentioned and the ones I mentioned are those that do not believe in GOD s message or just give lip service /pretend.i.e do not take GOD and His revelation-Qoran- seriously.
                    GOD bless you.
                    Peace.

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                    • FusionF Offline
                      FusionF Offline
                      Fusion
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      Brother GL. Thank you for sharing your understanding of these Quranic verses. I respect your perspective and understand the connection you are making between the signs and the events of 1969 and 1974. However I personally don not see the verses as pointing specifically to Apollo or the 1974 events.

                      That being said I appreciate the thoughtfulness behind your interpretation and I acknowledge it. As I have mentioned, I am grateful to the views of you, Emre, and Jkhan on this topic even though our interpretations may differ.

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                      • J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        Hi guys..
                        Honestly, I did not read anything that you guys shared... However, upon examining the topic, I am glad to share this very interesting video that you can watch repeatedly and even have fun with. I bet you. When that guy said, 'You are not uneducated, but you are wrongly educated,' it was so funny.

                        https//youtu.be/Q7yvvq-9ytE?si=tOVaFkSLhSFzKs3P

                        don't miss watching it.. I am sure you will love it regardless which side you belong to..

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                        • FusionF Offline
                          FusionF Offline
                          Fusion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          Yes the wrongly educated line was a good laugh. I also noticed someone in the comments put it well

                          That said, in this video the science side did seem to present the stronger case, and the flat-earth position took some tough challenges and beating. Interesting choice to share Jkhan. By the way, do you still hold the same flat-earth view as before?

                          I also dont quite get why people always frame it as religion vs science. Science isnot something satanic rather its the collective human intellect, which God gave when He made humans khalifa on earth. It evolves with time. Thats what made humans an intelligent form, unlike the other human-like creatures who roamed the earth for hundreds of thousands of years but only in the last 10,000 years started progressing exponentially. Thats science (The reasoning God gives to humans)

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                          • J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jkhan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            Thank you, brother… It seems like you have enjoyed the video.. I could not resist sharing it because it made me laugh a lot and made me ponder a lot.. When I wanted to share, I suddenly saw this Moon split topic on the top, so I shared in it.. In my view, those who claimed scientists seemed a bit weak and nervous, and when one scientist scratched his bald head, I could not stop chuckling..
                            It is not an easy topic to argue because neither NASA nor those who claim Earth is a globe nor those who claim it is static can prove with evidence for their respective claims.. It is like a ‘Does God exist?’ type of topic.. Where is the evidence that the Earth is a globe/spherical shape moving around? It’s all theory and one-sided claims, and whoever goes against the theory they have a habit of mocking at them.. Same as the moon landing.. They said they landed and they showed some videos, and we are to believe.. and this is not scientific evidence, you know what I mean.. The real science is irrefutable, and no need even to have a conversation with those who deny the real science.. Because it is a waste of time teaching the deniers..
                            On the other hand, real scientists are those who invented something and presented their theory, plus practical aspects, and gave the knowledge to the world, and the rest of the world is producing them and benefiting from it. For example, flight, mobile, computers, machines, medical science, agricultural science etc.. All these are invented by scientists and know-how is theorized and practically tested and proven and still improving, and that’s why we fearlessly get into an airplane hoping to reach another destination flying.. That’s science with evidence.. If anyone rejects it, then he is blinded and nonsensical.. Do you want to have a debate with people who say, ‘Chocolate milk comes from brown cows?’
                            But, these astronauts claim themselves as scientists as if they were the people who invented rockets? Hypothetical theories that have never been proved tangibly are not science at all.. Even if they develop or change from time to time with various alternatives to their assumptions, it is not science at all. Assumptions are not science.. They are mocking the real scientists, and they are artificially trying to attach them as well with real scientists. Ironic part of these people is that they call them scientists, and they incorporate them with the scientists who have undeniably invented something in their life that is benefiting people in their day-to-day lives.. Astronauts are not scientists.. If someone is tirelessly exploring whether ‘Bigfoots’ exist or not, they may claim they are scientists in a way on the subject, because no one has explored like them.. But, we are not so bothered to believe their assumptions about ‘bigfoot’ once their research is complete.. Same, these astronauts..
                            Yes, technically, Claudius Ptolemy was a scientist, and his scientific research did not align with heliocentric research.. So, in one subject, two types of scientists vary in their opinions.. It clearly shows astronomy is a subject of exploration, applying one's own theory.. Unfortunately, the heliocentric theory was established by so-called scientists, not because they found evidence to show people what real scientists invented and established, and people could replicate it as I gave examples above...
                            But truth is one.. Earth exists so does the Heavens as the Divine created as we believe.. It has only one shape.. How they are shaped is a question mark to be honest? Is it a spinning globe or static circular shape or something else?
                            Since you asked me Fusion, for me Al Quran verses always helped me to go away from the heliocentric take, plus my observations strengthened me, and my questions to the heliocentric model are still unanswered.. So, I like to remain of the opinion that Earth is static.. One day in the very near future, perhaps, we all will know without any doubt with whatever technology to our naked eyes that this is the reality of the Earth and heavens.. Because, as the Divine states, the Truth cannot be hidden forever.. and it is time for that.. Whatever the truth is, it will come out and confirm it.. The Divine will show all His signs until they know that it is the truth… They find it is so tough to hide with the latest technologies that is burgeoning and spreading all over the world.. People question, and you can’t stop rebellious people questioning..
                            I believed that the Earth is a globe since it was taught to us, so I don’t blame anyone at all who is on that same track still.. But it is shameful if people never question their doubts and keep believing simply like it is their ancestral religion and align with it.. They are accountable..

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                            • FusionF Offline
                              FusionF Offline
                              Fusion
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              Jkhan, people have known the Earth is round and rotates for a very long time way before NASA. Eratosthenes worked it out over 2,000 years ago using shadows, and sailors for centuries have navigated using the curve of the Earth. In 1851 Foucault’s pendulum gave a clear physical proof of rotation. (Please read about it).

                              Today we see the same thing in GPS it only works because satellites go around a rotating globe. The system even adjusts for that rotation so your location stays accurate. GPS is not just NASA; its run by multiple countries, and its accuracy can be checked by anyone. If the Earth were flat or still, GPS would be off by kilometers every day but it is not.

                              Asking for proof in the future is like saying you will only believe it if you personally travel into space and see it but science doesn’t work that way. You have to consider what humans have already discovered and proven through intellect and observation. In this case, its not just one country; multiple countries have space programs, and they can’t all be wrong or part of the same false story. Sometimes you need to accept the evidence, trust the collective human effort, and move forward.

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                              • J Offline
                                J Offline
                                jkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                You are so funny.. GPS=GLOBAL Positioning system.. Well, do I use GPS? Yes.. it helps modern life, isn’t it? So, you want me to believe the Earth is a ball or spherical or a globe, as they have used Global? Just because they use ‘G’, it doesn’t become Global.. Same as they would say, Global warming, Global crisis etc.. Who cares? I watched a myriad of videos on GPS, and when its birth took place and its latest developments etc.. Earth doesn’t need to be a ball shape for it to work.. That’s how we have been educated.. Just cus they wear a Cross, it doesn’t mean Jesus was crucified on it.. That’s how wrongly educated.. Indeed, they are uneducated (and not uneducated), cus the truth is not taught to them..
                                We may be using many gadgets that were invented by many atheists, and it doesn’t mean we have to align with their faith.. There is a part to play here, though it is called science and that is ‘faith’.. Science is not based on faith. Mind that.. Did you notice in the video that all three scientists were atheists when they were asked whether there is a higher power behind all these, and they said No.. That’s the outcome of believing in evolution and a Godless, creationless universe concept. Why believe in the Divine while the concept of science on universe formation and its living beings are against it..
                                If the shape of the universe is what science states, trust me I will never believe in the Divine like the scientists do. Because it won’t make any sense to believe in the Divine while everything began on its own and then evolved with time into its own design.. Why do you need a God for this? That’s why 99% of such scientists don’t go for the option of God in their lives.. That’s fair enough.. Because it doesn’t make sense to believe in God while their core belief is that everything began on its own.. That’s the ultimate take of science when it comes to the formation of the Universe. Then you may say, religious people believe in the Divine, while they still believe what science says about the shape of universe.. That’s their prejudice towards science, while they still want to hold their faith to maintain their religious faith.. The very people who taught you the shape of the universe don’t believe in the Divine, because they are confident that with the formation of the Universe, there cannot be a Divine behind it.. They are right on their stance..
                                But if we take, we are living in a closed chamber, there is no way one can deny that there is super superpower behind it.. How come one denies the Divine in that case? Because we are trapped inside.. That’s what we call the Divine behind it.. No need the Divine for the design of what science presents i.e. the universe..

                                Let me be simple.. Science is very clear, and it is real as well when they explain the realities. For example.. They explain to us how lightning forms first, and then thunder follows it.. I have no objections, and that’s how it works.. And they claim, for this, there is no need for a God to create lightning, and that’s how they go far away from the Divine.. But the Divine states He is the one who creates the lightning and afflicts anyone He wills.. But for science, it is natural and its scientific procedure is elaborated. The Divine intervention is not required there.. Same every other topic, for instance, Earth plates movement and its root cause is explained, and the Divine intervention has nothing to do with Earthquakes. When you hide a seed inside the soil and how it start to grow, a scientific explanation is given on it, and it is acceptable and true. No argument about it.. So, scientists are left with a strong option of denying the Divine.. I don’t blame them.. The root cause which led to this decision is the shape of the Universe and its beginning.. Boy, that’s what they want to conceal.. If the scientists unanimously claimed that the shape of the universe is a closed chamber, the Earth being massive and all celestial bodies are minute and we are living in closed chamber, then the consequence of this in long run with erudite minds will be totally different, because it will lead students to reflect in the Divine or something outside of our dimension as superpower, cus we are in closed chamber.. With this concept of the universe presented to us, it won’t lead any students to think of the Divine behind it; rather, they would just learn science and what the universe is all about.. That’s it.. Thus, there will be no ‘Turning point’ for any students while learning the shape of the Universe to think of the Divine behind it..
                                Below is the simple accepted science..
                                The prevailing scientific theory, the Big Bang theory, suggests the universe was not created from nothing, but rather, it originated from an extremely hot and dense state about 13.8 billion years ago. This initial state, known as a singularity, contained all the energy and matter that exists today. The universe then expanded and cooled, leading to the formation of the structures we observe today.

                                You can’t go to infinity, but you need to start at the very beginning of research. Unfortunately, that beginning was NOT CREATED, according to unanimous science. This leads scientists to be satisfied with the laws of physics for everything that has evolved, without involving the Divine. If the very beginning is considered CREATED instead, then it changes dramatically. However, the very beginning is not CREATED, and the shape of the universe presented is also contrary to reality, so truth seekers are limited to what scientists state unless they rebel.
                                Faith or belief is not science.. They landed on the Moon is just a belief for the general people. There is no scientific evidence for this..

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                                • FusionF Offline
                                  FusionF Offline
                                  Fusion
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  Buddy If you find my reply funny, I will take it as a sign the discussion is lively. I am also curious to hear if others share your static Earth view though I strongly suspect most here accept that our planet is in motion.

                                  Jkhan, Quran does not say the Earth is fixed it describes all celestial bodies moving in their orbits. Its purpose is to guide to the Creator, not to freeze our understanding at the level of any past century. Scholars of the past reached their conclusions with the knowledge of their time; they were humans.

                                  If you claim to seek truth, verified observations cannot be dismissed simply because some scientists are atheists. Truth does not become false because of who discovers it. God gave humans the intellect to observe and measure His creation. That is why we see time zones change with Earth’s rotation, why the stars shift in the sky differently from one hemisphere to another, and why airline flight paths only make sense on a globe. None of this comes from one country multiple independent observations match the same reality.

                                  When separate lines of evidence all point to the same thing, ignoring it while waiting for future proof is not seeking truth it is avoiding it. Recognizing that the Earth rotates does not remove God from the picture; it simply acknowledges a reality of His design.

                                  Scripture often uses language from a human point of view (spread out, laid down) the same way we say sunrise today, even though we know the Sun is not moving around us. Quran point was never to give us an astronomy textbook, but theres no contradiction with what we know from observation.

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    ٱقْتَـرَبَتِ ٱلسَّاعَةُ وَٱنشَقَّ ٱلْقَمَرُ ١
                                    The Appointed Moment has become nearing accomplished —And the Moon has become in cratered state.

                                    First Frame of this Sura/Chapter containing Ayahs 1-8 is an example of superb use of literary technique termed Juxtaposition in which two or more ideas, places, characters, phenomena, and their actions are placed side by side in a narrative, for the purpose of developing comparisons and contrasts. It is employed in order to surprise the readers and evoke their interest, by means of developing a comparison between two dissimilar things by placing them side by side. The comparison drawn adds vividness to a given image, controls the pacing of the narrative.

                                    Ayah 1-3 of Frame begins with gradable proximity of a figure - the Appointed Moment ٱلسَّاعَةُ. She is the Subject of preceding feminine perfect Form-VIII verb, stemming from Root ق ر ب. This Subject is a figure that is closely guarded and we do not have any specific information frame by which we could image its location in timeline. The verb is result verb which also describe events that take time but these events have an inherent temporal endpoint the time when the result state comes about. The duration of the event up to the endpoint is taken up by the process that leads up to this result state, though it is left unspecified by the verb; it is this process that a means/manner verb names. Such events are known as ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

                                    The second sentence of the Ayah, like the first, is declarative and cautionary in intent, as if the proximity of preceding fact is being compared to a ground reality. The verbal sentence comprises of third person masculine perfect verb, Form-VII ٱنشَقَّ followed by its Subject the Moon. Form-VII is always intransitive. It has self reflexive meaning and has effective connotation, a state produced in the subject. The verb stems from Root ش ق ق that leads to the perception of rift, cleave, fissure, chasm, breakdown happening in a thing. Thus, the sentence gives an impression that the Moon has become in the state signified by the Root. The information reveals that the Moon was originally not in this state and it is a later phenomenon.

                                    The information contained in the sentence has now visually been shown to us (as promised 4153) and is perceptible for us after the invention of telescope and Hubble by seeing the surface of Moon having become cratered.
                                    In the following Ayahs the attitude and response of non-believers is mentioned who are adamant and keep purposely following myths and conjectures. They refrain paying attention and reflecting on purpose of such type of cautioning information and without having given a thought contradict it as illusory falsity, thus subtly attributing to the Narrator of information about the state of Moon is just his illusory vision and that it is false. It is, thereby, clarified in the concluding remarks on this subject that
                                    وَكُلُّ أَمْرٛ مُّسْتَقِـرّٚ ٣
                                    Take note, every affair-matter is unshakable and dormant for an earmarked moment-location (when it will become active, read with 667).

                                    It is a simple declarative nominal sentence. The first noun of Possessive Phrase كُلُّ أَمْرٛ is the Subject meaning each of all matters/affairs - already determined. Its Predicate is مُّسْتَقِـرّٚ Active Participle Indefinite; masculine; singular; nominative ; مصدر-اَسْتَقْرار Verbal noun. It denotes an entity which is coolly settled resting at a place-timeline. Thus this sentence reveals that not only every determined affair is unshakable it is dormant till the appointed moment when it will become active and manifested.

                                    This information that the Appointed Moment is all the time attaining proximity to become manifest is also earlier mentioned along with similar comment about the response attitude of non-believers
                                    ٱقْتَـرَبَ لِلنَّاسِ حِسَابُـهُـمْ وَهُـمْ فِـى غَفْلَةٛ مُّعْـرِضُونَ ١
                                    The subjection to their accountability has come nearer in time for the people. Despite its nearing, they are deliberately overlooking - disregarding it preferring to remain in state of neglectfulness.
                                    مَا يَأْتِيـهِـم مِّن ذِكْرٛ مِّن رَّبِّـهِـم مُّحْدَثٍٛ إِلَّا ٱسْتَمَعُوهُ وَهُـمْ يَلْعَبُونَ ٢لَاهِيَةٙ قُلُوبُـهُـمْۖ
                                    They do not listen except hearing in a playful mood whatever warning - information comes to their notice anew quoted from the Memoir- Admonishment (Qur’ān) received from their Sustainer Lord. Their hearts are distracted and preoccupied in other trifle matters and thoughts.

                                    The irrational response of the non-believers to the information and implicit warning is not necessarily because of lack of understanding it in the absence of experience and cognitive frames. It is not because of Plato's problem. "Plato's problem is the term given by Noam Chomsky to the gap between knowledge and experience. It presents the question of how we account for our knowledge when environmental conditions seem to be an insufficient source of information. It is used in linguistics to refer to the "argument from poverty of the stimulus" . In a more general sense, Plato's Problem refers to the problem of explaining a "lack of input". Solving Plato's Problem involves explaining the gap between what one knows and the apparent lack of substantive input from experience (the environment)."

                                    It is immediately clarified by mentioning that concrete historical instances have already been quoted to them but such explicit warnings are also of no avail to them, whereby, it is evident that problem with them is not of understanding. Thereby, no further effort is needed to persuade them to become alive to inevitable upshot.

                                    https//www.istockphoto.com/search/2/image-film?phrase=moon+crater

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                                    • FusionF Offline
                                      FusionF Offline
                                      Fusion
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Dear Mazhar,

                                      I wanted to make sure I have understood your take on this, so I am putting it here for you to confirm or correct.

                                      From what I gather, you are saying the moon never literally split into two in the Prophet time. Instead, it has been going through a slow process of surface change sort of rifts, craters, and other marks which we can now see clearly with telescopes. This ongoing change is a sign that the Hour is drawing nearer, and at the appointed moment it may completely break apart.

                                      Where I am a bit stuck is with verses 2 and 3. If the change in the moon is only visible with modern instruments, how should we understand the reaction described there where people calling it magic or rejecting it when the verse was first revealed? At that time, Muslims and others would naturally read it through their own context, as reflected in early Hadith and Tafsir. That makes sense historically.

                                      But looking at the structure of the passage, verse 1 is immediately followed by verses 2 and 3, almost as if the rejection is tied directly to the sign just mentioned. In your reading, should this rejection be seen as generic human denial of divine warnings or as something specifically linked to the moon’s condition?

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                                      • M Offline
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                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        Dear Mazhar,

                                        I wanted to make sure I have understood your take on this, so I am putting it here for you to confirm or correct.

                                        From what I gather, you are saying the moon never literally split into two in the Prophet time. Instead, it has been going through a slow process of surface change sort of rifts, craters, and other marks which we can now see clearly with telescopes. This ongoing change is a sign that the Hour is drawing nearer, and at the appointed moment it may completely break apart.

                                        Where I am a bit stuck is with verses 2 and 3. If the change in the moon is only visible with modern instruments, how should we understand the reaction described there where people calling it magic or rejecting it when the verse was first revealed? At that time, Muslims and others would naturally read it through their own context, as reflected in early Hadith and Tafsir. That makes sense historically.

                                        But looking at the structure of the passage, verse 1 is immediately followed by verses 2 and 3, almost as if the rejection is tied directly to the sign just mentioned. In your reading, should this rejection be seen as generic human denial of divine warnings or as something specifically linked to the moon’s condition?

                                        Quite close.
                                        (From what I gather, you are saying the moon never literally split into two in the Prophet time. Instead, it has been going through a slow process of surface change sort of rifts, craters, and other marks which we can now see clearly with telescopes. This ongoing change is a sign that the Hour is drawing nearer, and at the appointed moment it may completely break apart.)

                                        No the text calls it an occurrence that has since happened.

                                        First sentence is about the ever near approaching moment of the Last Day.

                                        The methodology of reading Qur'an is that we should first travel in time to the days of revelation, as you rightly pointed, as to what was perceived or taken by the first listeners or readers from the surface structure of discourse.

                                        And the Discourse must be read by coherent paragraphs. The Topic sentence is the Last Moment. Rest coheres with and explains it.

                                        The Paragraph is Declarative–Warning Discourse with strong Eschatological–Admonitory orientation.

                                        ٱقْتَـرَبَتِ ٱلسَّاعَةُ وَٱنشَقَّ ٱلْقَمَرُ ١
                                        وَإِن يَرَوْا۟ ءَايَةٙ يُعْـرِضُوا۟ وَيَقُولُوا۟ سِحْرٚ مُّسْتَمِرّٚ ٢
                                        وَكَذَّبُوا۟ وَٱتَّبَعُوٓا۟ أَهْوَآءَهُـمْۚ
                                        وَكُلُّ أَمْرٛ مُّسْتَقِـرّٚ ٣
                                        وَلَقَدْ جَآءَهُـم مِّنَ ٱلْأَنۢبَآءِ مَا فِيهِ مُزْدَجَرٌ ٤
                                        حِكْمَةٌۢ بَٟلِغَةٌۭۖ فَمَا تُغْنِ ٱلنُّذُرُ٥
                                        فَتَوَلَّ عَنْـهُـمْۘ يَوْمَ يَدْعُ ٱلدَّاعِ إِلَـىٰ شَـىْءٛ نُّكُرٍٛ ٦
                                        خُشَّعًا أَبْصَٟرُهُـمْ يَخْرُجُونَ مِنَ ٱلْأَجْدَاثِ كَأَنَّـهُـمْ جَرَادٚ مُّنتَشِـرٚ ٧
                                        مُّهْطِعِيـنَ إِلَى ٱلدَّاعِۖ يَقُولُ ٱلْـكَـٟفِـرُونَ هَـٰذَا يَوْمٌ عَسِـرٚ ٨
                                        The Appointed Moment has become nearing accomplished —And the Moon has become in cratered state.
                                        And if they (elite-chieftains) would see an Ayah verbal passage of Qur’ān mirroring information, about the Last Day and Appointed Moment they people would knowingly refrain —And they would say, "It is a self persisting illusory falsity."
                                        And they have publicly contradicted it (Qur’ān) and have purposely followed their conjectures and unsubstantiated, non verifiable myths, and desires.
                                        Take note, every affair-matter is unshakable and dormant for an earmarked moment-location (when it will become active, read with 667).
                                        While that has already come to them, relating a segment of the instances of the past history — which has restraining punchy lesson contained therein to become heedful —
                                        Those instances are the provider of eloquent and easy to comprehend wisdom, sapience, sagacity —Yet for reason of adamant attitude the warnings will not be of avail.
                                        Since you have already afforded them much time, therefore, you the Messenger turn away-become indifferent from them —For the Day when the Summoner-Second blow in the trumpet will call them towards an unpleasant thing —
                                        Their visions will be in dazed/downcast state while they will be coming out of the graves like as if they were an expanding swarm of locusts —
                                        They will be hastening in race to confront, in fear and submission and docility towards the Inviter (the exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam) — The Non-Believers saying, "This is a difficult day."

                                        Further following Speech Act Theory we need to try understanding the intended affect.

                                        For Rejecters — To shock and unsettle, showing that their current derision will flip into abject fear; to erode their sense of invulnerability.

                                        For Believers — To strengthen conviction, showing that their opponents’ arrogance is short-lived and the promised Day is inevitable.

                                        For Future Generations — To embed a visual and emotional blueprint of the Hereafter in the imagination—so vivid that it overrides the present world’s distractions.

                                        The Frame intends to provoke repentance before the irreversible moment arrives, using urgency, inevitability and vivid fate imagery.

                                        I mentioned Plato's Problem. We see this firstly in Ayah where there are contrasting response.

                                        إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يَسْتَحْىِۦٓ أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلٙا مَّا بَعُوضَةٙ فَمَا فَوْقَهَاۚ
                                        فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ ٱلْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّـهِـمْۖ
                                        وَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَـرُوا۟ فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَآ أَرَادَ ٱللَّهُ بِـهَـٟذَا مَثَلٙاۘ
                                        يُضِلُّ بِهِۦ كَثِيـرٙا وَيَـهْدِى بِهِۦ كَثِيـرٙاۚ
                                        وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِۦٓ إِلَّا ٱلْفَٟسِقِيـنَ٢٦
                                        Allah the Exalted certainly considers it not a matter of shyness-reluctance-embarrassment striking an example of that which is generally referred as female mosquito —thereby highlighting that still smaller in size which exists above her—(phoretic species).
                                        Thereat, as for those who have heartily believed in the Messenger and Qur’ān, since they are conscious and unbiased, thereby, they understand that it is factually appropriate principle disclosed and communicated by their Sustainer Lord for striking a simile.
                                        However, as for those are concerned who have denied to accept the Messenger, they in response question others, saying; "What is that which Allah has intended by this disclosure-similitude?"
                                        He the Exalted by it exposes quite many by letting them remain aberrant —
                                        And He the Exalted guides with it quite many —
                                        Realize it that except for those who are the Aberrant averse, dissolutely move out of the bounds and restraints, He the Exalted by it does not let anyone remain unmindful.

                                        Obviously they were not aware that it is only she-mosquito that concerns humans. They took it as a rule for quoting examples, nothing wrong if it is some thing very small or feminine to make point obvious. They believed it as statement of fact.
                                        Others mocked.

                                        Further they may have perceived as linguistic point since Arabs without distinguishing gender of mosquito, used for both, a feminine noun بَعُوضَةٙ

                                        (interesting info Genitals of male mosquito are like ours)

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                                        • J Offline
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                                          jkhan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          https//youtu.be/YGU-7-61NlA?si=e9WLYa0unHBjHjNH

                                          https//youtu.be/e2tdDLf419g?si=ioKoYr6wKuepVpnh

                                          https//youtu.be/1oCNGcbwxWg?si=Pl2_GT1MnkAk_wVU

                                          Look, brothers and sisters.. We all agree undeniably that there is only one Truth and the truth remains truth...

                                          Perhaps I might have shared these videos with you before in other topics, but please watch them with an open mind to understand what they are trying to state. It all started in the late 1950s, and including real scientists who are not paid puppets and many types of learned people always researched in a true sense..

                                          The Moon has its own light, and it is charging like your battery is moving upward while charging, and when fully charged, again going down.. Because it is plasma.. That is how it was created by the Divine..

                                          I know it is hard to believe, but you all not ready to be on your own feet and research.. As in a couple of the videos stated, if the truth of the Moon is exposed, then everything collapses.. So, it's worth hiding.. Well said, all of them..

                                          Just watch all three videos as a truth seeker.. Don't watch as if you know the truth.. Would you?

                                          Quran is clear .. Al Quran has never mentioned that the Moon has reflected light, but in one word it is light and the same root is used throughout Quran ... nothing resembles reflected light.. There is big difference between REFLECTED Light and Light itself.. because reflected light is not light at all.. I know most will never agree until they die.. But, unfortunately, they will die with falsehood.. That's their destiny.. don't make your destiny if you are one of the truth seekers.. is there anyone..?

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