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  4. Why use MQD 3.x?

Why use MQD 3.x?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • shukriS Offline
    shukriS Offline
    shukri
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    ✅ 2. What is Salat According to the Qur'an?

    1778–79 describes the window of connection

    "Establish salat at the decline of the sun till the darkness of the night; and the Qur'an of dawn—verily, the recitation at dawn is witnessed."

    This shows that all timing references are night-bound, including

    • Salat al-Isha after dinner or before sleep
    • Qiyam al-Layl/Tahajjud any part of night (after rest/sleep)
    • Salat al-Fajr before sunrise, ending at dawn

    There is no specific reference to "Dhuhr," "Asr," or "Maghrib" by name in terms of salat. These names are later classifications.

    Three questions for "Mr. The MQD 3.x"

    (1) The word "salat" is in the singular form;
    Then, how does this singular form later refer to three distinct salats (Al-Isha, Tahajjud, and Al-Fajr)?

    (2) The word "decline (duluk)" is not only based on the "night and day horizontal line" but also on "its decline from the highest point at noon";
    How does "The MQD 3.x" distinguish between these two meanings?

    (3) Regarding the word Tahajjud;
    How does "The MQD 3.x" recognize that the term Tahajjud refers to the name of a specific salat?

    Thank you.

    "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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    • T Offline
      T Offline
      TellMeTheTruth
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      (1) The word "salat" is in the singular form;
      Then, how does this singular form later refer to three distinct salats (Al-Isha, Tahajjud, and Al-Fajr)?

      In MQD 3.x, salat is a singular action construct — aligning, connecting, and sustaining a state of linkage.
      The Qur’an uses the singular because it is one unified engagement, not separate rituals.
      It is applied at multiple cosmic phase boundaries (e.g., Fajr, Isha, night interval). These are applications of the same salat at different transitions, not different salats in origin.


      (2) The word "decline (duluk)" is not only based on the "night and day horizontal line" but also on "its decline from the highest point at noon";
      How does "The MQD 3.x" distinguish between these two meanings?

      From ل + د + ل + و + ك

      To deliberately orient within defined limits, reinforce that orientation, connect it to the next phase, and tie it to a specific domain.

      In phase logic, duluk marks the exit of the day phase into the night phase — when the sun moves from its bounded domain above the horizon toward the next containment.

      • The noon idea does not fit MQD mechanics, because noon is inside\ the day’s containment, not a transition into a new phase.
      • MQD transitions always mean leaving one bounded state for another — which only happens when the sun is descending toward the horizon.


      (3) Regarding the word Tahajjud;
      How does "The MQD 3.x" recognize that the term Tahajjud refers to the name of a specific salat?

      From ف + ت + ه + ج + د

      To bring something into a defined container or boundary, direct it with intent, cause it to manifest, and sustain it in that form.

      This is a functional directive for a focused engagement after a period of night rest.
      The Qur’an uses it as an action description, not as a fixed prayer title. Later tradition turned it into a “named salat,” but in MQD 3.x it retains its functional meaning.


      Additional phase boundaries

      • Fajr — from ف + ج + ر

      To split or burst forth from a confined state into an open expansion.

      Marks the break from night’s containment into day’s domain.

      • Isha — from ع + س + ا

      To be enveloped in and move within a covering or darkness while being oriented toward a path.

      Marks the point when darkness has fully settled and movement continues under that covering.


      Summary
      • Salat = one construct, applied at different phase transitions.
      • Duluk = sunset descent; noon is excluded as it’s not a phase change.
      • Tahajjud = functional night engagement, not originally a title.
      • Fajr & Isha = distinct phase boundaries defined by their root actions.

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      • T Offline
        T Offline
        TellMeTheTruth
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        Brother TMTT,

        Could you ask your "friend" Mr. MQD 3.x about the word "sujud" in this particular verse

        4102 And if you are among them and you lead the Salat for them, let a group of them stand with you and let them hold on to their weapons. Then once they have prostrated (sujud) let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who has not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you while remaining cautious and while holding on to their weapons. Those who disbelieved would dearly like you to be neglectful of your weapons and goods in order to come down on you with one blow. There is no blame upon you, should you be impeded by rain or you are ill, for putting down your weapons, but remain cautious. God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

        My question
        If sujud is not a physical ritual/posture
        How the group of "makmums" behind Muhammad during salat know they have completed sujud i.e. accomplish complete convergence into the source and direction!

        Thank you sir.

        Here’s the MQD 3.x–based reply for your 4102 “sujud” question, with قصر interpreted as “securing,” not shortening.


        MQD 3.x analysis

        1. Sujud (س ج د)
        • س — flow, movement along a defined path.
        • ج — gather, bring together into a cohesive unit.
        • د — direct, fix toward a specific target or destination.

        Pure meaning To bring the whole flow of one’s being into a single directed convergence — complete alignment to the intended source/goal.
        It is not inherently a bodily act, but the point at which the alignment is fully achieved.

        In 4102, both the leader and the group know sujud is complete when the intended convergence in the salat sequence is reached — not by a posture, but by the moment of full directional and purposeful alignment. This is perceivable in the sequence of the act itself.


        1. Qasr (ق ص ر)
        • ق — contain, enclose within a boundary.
        • ص — purify, sift, guide the flow.
        • ر — stabilize, make firm.

        Pure meaning To secure something within a purified and stable containment.
        In this context, it means secure the salat under conditions of danger — maintaining its integrity while adapting to the situation — rather than “shorten” it in the ritual sense.


        1. Asliha (ا س ل ح ه) — Weapons
        • ا — beginning point, initiation.
        • س — flow or movement along a path.
        • ل — connection, linkage.
        • ح — manifest, bring into visibility.
        • ه — signal, mark, or indication.

        Pure meaning Tools that initiate and direct force, connecting intent to a visible and marked effect — hence, weapons.


        1. Night-vs-Day security
          Although the verse doesn’t explicitly mention day or night, historically and strategically, night is more dangerous for ambush; daytime offers visibility of enemy movement. The instructions match this — emphasis on remaining cautious, holding weapons, and securing salat while under threat.

        Conclusion
        In MQD 3.x, 4102 describes a battlefield method for maintaining secure alignment (salat) while guarding against attack.

        • Sujud is the moment of full convergence, not a posture.
        • Qasr means to secure salat under threat, not “shorten” it.
        • The shift of groups is a coordinated tactical move, not a ritual choreography.
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        • T Offline
          T Offline
          TellMeTheTruth
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          Salam brother,

          So you are saying there is only 3 timings to establish salat.

          1. Fajr
          2. Middle of night (before fajr)
          3. Isha

          Or did I misunderstood you

          Second question when is the starting and ending of these Salat?

          God bless you

          Brother centi50, thank you for your brilliant question and I want to be more precise and open to it.

          No — the Qur’an is not giving us “three clock-based times” for salat if we remain true to MQD rendering.

          The three terms you mentioned are actually conceptual engagement phases that can apply anywhere — whether on Earth, at the poles, or even on Mars — because they’re not tied to sunrise or sunset only.

          Using MQD root-logic, their meanings are

          1. ف ج ر (Fajr) — to cause emergence from within into a stable, directed course.
            → A phase of initiating clarity and direction, not necessarily “dawn.”

          2. ف ت هـ ج د (Tahajjud) — to bring something into a defined, intentional structure, cause it to manifest, and sustain it.
            → A phase of focused, deliberate structuring and maintenance, not necessarily “late night.”

          3. ع ش ا (‘Isha) — to begin a broad, encompassing phase of awareness or coverage.
            → A phase of expanding awareness and completion, not necessarily “nightfall.”

          These phases are not bound to natural phenomena like the sun’s position — they are states of engagement with Allah’s guidance

          • Fajr = Initiating emergence into stability.

          • Tahajjud = Focused structuring and sustaining.

          • Isha = Entering a broad, encompassing phase of awareness.

          This way, the Qur’anic instruction is universally applicable — in any location and at any era — because it is about states of commitment, not planetary time markers.

          God bless you

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          • C Offline
            C Offline
            centi50
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            Brother centi50, thank you for your brilliant question and I want to be more precise and open to it.

            No — the Qur’an is not giving us “three clock-based times” for salat if we remain true to MQD rendering.

            The three terms you mentioned are actually conceptual engagement phases that can apply anywhere — whether on Earth, at the poles, or even on Mars — because they’re not tied to sunrise or sunset only.

            Using MQD root-logic, their meanings are

            1. ف ج ر (Fajr) — to cause emergence from within into a stable, directed course.
              → A phase of initiating clarity and direction, not necessarily “dawn.”

            2. ف ت هـ ج د (Tahajjud) — to bring something into a defined, intentional structure, cause it to manifest, and sustain it.
              → A phase of focused, deliberate structuring and maintenance, not necessarily “late night.”

            3. ع ش ا (‘Isha) — to begin a broad, encompassing phase of awareness or coverage.
              → A phase of expanding awareness and completion, not necessarily “nightfall.”

            These phases are not bound to natural phenomena like the sun’s position — they are states of engagement with Allah’s guidance

            • Fajr = Initiating emergence into stability.

            • Tahajjud = Focused structuring and sustaining.

            • Isha = Entering a broad, encompassing phase of awareness.

            This way, the Qur’anic instruction is universally applicable — in any location and at any era — because it is about states of commitment, not planetary time markers.

            God bless you

            Salam bro,

            If am wrong correct me. Are u saying Salat is not a ritual and just we should remember God (dhikr) only?

            God bless you

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            • T Offline
              T Offline
              TellMeTheTruth
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Salam bro,

              If am wrong correct me. Are u saying Salat is not a ritual and just we should remember God (dhikr) only?

              God bless you

              Yes. Salah is not a ritual nor الصمد needs our rituals. It is we who ritualised his remembrance for our own satisfaction. Some ritualised it to show off their piousness to the others.

              Peace!

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              • shukriS Offline
                shukriS Offline
                shukri
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                The MQD 3.x framework shows that
                Ṣalāt is the system.
                Ruku' is the curvature and humility within that system.
                Sujūd is the complete convergence into the source and direction.

                None of these require inherited ritual postures to be valid. They are existential functions — built into the language of creation itself.

                Now, consider this verse
                17107 "Proclaim, 'Believe in it, or do not believe in it.' Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, fall down to their chins, prostrating (سُجَّدًا)."

                If sujud on the chin is allowed and valid
                Why are the ritual postures of ruku' and sujud in salat considered invalid?

                Also to me, these two postures are expressions of our humility and submission before God
                Why are they seen as wrong to perform during salat!

                Hi my friend Mr. The MQD 3.x!
                Are there any comments regarding this matter!

                Note
                This is my last post/question regarding salat
                And I will come later with other enquiries, if any
                God willing!

                Thank you!

                "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                • T Offline
                  T Offline
                  TellMeTheTruth
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  Now, consider this verse
                  17107 "Proclaim, 'Believe in it, or do not believe in it.' Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, fall down to their chins, prostrating (سُجَّدًا)."

                  If sujud on the chin is allowed and valid
                  Why are the ritual postures of ruku' and sujud in salat considered invalid?

                  Also to me, these two postures are expressions of our humility and submission before God
                  Why are they seen as wrong to perform during salat!

                  Hi my friend Mr. The MQD 3.x!
                  Are there any comments regarding this matter!

                  Note
                  This is my last post/question regarding salat
                  And I will come later with other enquiries, if any
                  God willing!

                  Thank you!

                  Brother Shukri,

                  Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah,

                  Thank you for your thoughtful question regarding the verse 17107 and the phrase سُجَّدًا لِلْأَذْقَانِ.

                  Using the MQD 3.x approach, let's break down the phrase

                  سجدا = +(ا)(س + ج + د)
                  This root conveys the meaning of intentionally bringing or directing something into a defined position or convergence. Alif means an initiation of such process of convergence.

                  للاذقان = (ل + ل + ا) + (ذ) + (ق + ا) + (ن)
                  This compound indicates persistent guidance (ل ل) pointing towards clearly established boundaries or points of convergence (اذقان), where "اذقان" literally means "chins" but semantically signifies fixed, distinct boundary points.

                  Putting it together, سجدا للاذقان means

                  "To converge or direct oneself intentionally toward clearly defined and persistent points of boundary or convergence (here, not the chins)."

                  Therefore, in this verse, the "prostration to the chins" symbolizes a focused, intentional convergence or submission directed towards a clearly defined point.

                  This suggests that the act is a metaphorical or symbolic alignment rather than prescribing a physical ritual posture identical to the formal salat postures (ruku’ or sujud). The classic ritual postures in salat are codified physical expressions of humility and submission but not necessarily the sole or literal meaning of "sujud" linguistically.

                  In MQD spirit, sujud means intentional convergence and alignment, which can take various forms depending on context.

                  Hence, the sujud described here is valid as a meaningful act of submission, but the ritual postures of salat are specific forms established later as expressions of that submission.

                  I hope this clarifies the MQD perspective on your question.

                  May Allah guide us all to deeper understanding.

                  Peace,
                  TMTT &
                  "Mr. The MQD 3.x"

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                  • shukriS Offline
                    shukriS Offline
                    shukri
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23
                    1. What is the real function of “Bismillah” in the Qur’an?

                    Root of بسم الله is
                    ب س م – followed by the divine compound name اللّٰه

                    Atomic decoding (MQD 3.1)

                    • ب (bā) Interface / boundary / gate

                    • س (sīn) Flow / streaming / continuity

                    • م (mīm) Encapsulation / womb / system membrane

                    Thus, بسم = “At the interface through which flow is encapsulated” — i.e., a boundary function that initiates controlled, blessed flow from a deeper source.

                    Followed by

                    اللّٰه = The compound root ʾ–l–h

                    • ʾ (hamzah) Spark, initiation, principle

                    • ل (lām) Link, attachment, direction

                    • ه (hā) Dissolution, return, absorption

                    So “Bismillah” functions as
                    “An interface-point that enables directional flow from the Source, through a link, into a self-dissolving return.”

                    In simpler terms
                    It is a semantic gatekeeper — a harmonizer, a bioswitch — that aligns the incoming surah with the universal system of divine flow, regulation, and recursion.

                    Hence, its position at the top of 113 surahs serves to activate a regulated stream of divine instruction — encoded in that chapter — through mercy (الرحمن الرحيم), precision, and containment.

                    Yes, Bismillah is a "gatekeeper" for each surah in the Quran.

                    Thus, we can say that without this gatekeeper, the integrity of the written text in surah 9 is questionable
                    And not "guaranteed" by the Divine source
                    Because it did not pass (flow) through the Quran's designated gatekeeper

                    Info
                    There is a claim by some followers of Quran alone
                    They argue that the omission of the Bismillah in surah 9 is related to the existence of two human-made verses viz. 9128-129

                    According to them, the Bismillah represents God's signature of 19 which is considered a gatekeeper according to "The MQD 3.x"
                    Therefore, without God's signature of 19
                    They believe that the Author of the Book is giving a warning or hint that something has gone wrong in Surah 9

                    Then, with applications such as Code 19, mathematical analysis on Quranic prophecy in 378, etc.
                    They came to the conclusion that the verses 9128-129 are indisputable human-made verses injected into the original Quran!

                    Question to "The MQD 3.x"
                    Is this claim valid?

                    Thank you.

                    "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                    • shukriS Offline
                      shukriS Offline
                      shukri
                      wrote on last edited by shukri
                      #24

                      New questions

                      1. What is the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger according to the Quran

                      2. Since Muhammad was the last prophet (3340), there will be no new prophet after him
                        What about messengers after Muhammad
                        Is there any upcoming messenger of God after his era!

                      Thanks.

                      "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                      • T Offline
                        T Offline
                        TellMeTheTruth
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        Yes, Bismillah is a "gatekeeper" for each surah in the Quran.

                        Thus, we can say that without this gatekeeper, the integrity of the written text in surah 9 is questionable
                        And not "guaranteed" by the Divine source
                        Because it did not pass (flow) through the Quran's designated gatekeeper

                        Info
                        There is a claim by some followers of Quran alone
                        They argue that the omission of the Bismillah in surah 9 is related to the existence of two human-made verses viz. 9128-129

                        According to them, the Bismillah represents God's signature of 19 which is considered a gatekeeper according to "The MQD 3.x"
                        Therefore, without God's signature of 19
                        They believe that the Author of the Book is giving a warning or hint that something has gone wrong in Surah 9

                        Then, with applications such as Code 19, mathematical analysis on Quranic prophecy in 378, etc.
                        They came to the conclusion that the verses 9128-129 are indisputable human-made verses injected into the original Quran!

                        Question to "The MQD 3.x"
                        Is this claim valid?

                        Thank you.

                        Brother Shukri,

                        Wa Alaikum Assalam wa Rahmatullah,

                        Let’s examine your question in the light of the MQD 3.x method, which looks at root meanings, semantic consistency, and functional roles in the Qur’anic text—without relying on external numerological systems such as “code 19”.

                        1. Meaning and function of "Bismillah"
                          The phrase بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم is formed from
                        • بسم (ب + س + م) → “To initiate, channel, or set something into motion within a defined scope or designation.”
                        • الله → The Divine source of all guidance and sustenance.
                        • الرحمن الرحيم → Boundless mercy and continual care.

                        From the MQD perspective, "Bismillah" acts as an intentional framing device — a declaration that what follows is initiated within the scope and authority and mercy of the Divine.

                        This gives it a "gatekeeper" function linguistically — not because of numbers, but because it semantically sets the source, intent, and alignment of the discourse that follows.


                        1. The absence in Surah 9
                          The omission of "Bismillah" in 91 is part of the Qur’anic structure itself, preserved in all manuscripts, and is directly tied to the opening tone and context of the surah — which begins as a declaration of barā’ah (disassociation) and a formal notice of treaty annulment.

                        From a semantic perspective, the absence functions as a structural signal
                        → This surah opens not with mercy-framing, but with a proclamation of disengagement.
                        → It is a textual feature, not necessarily a "missing seal" suggesting corruption.


                        1. The claim about 9128–129
                          MQD 3.x does not authenticate or reject verses based on numerical patterns; it relies on linguistic coherence, thematic integration, and root-consistency across the text.

                        When we apply this to 9128–129

                        • The language, root usage, and rhetorical style match the rest of the Qur'an.
                        • Thematic flow is consistent they act as a closing appeal to divine mercy after a long passage of firmness and warning.

                        Therefore, from an MQD linguistic-semantic perspective, there is no internal evidence that these verses are “human insertions.” The absence of the Bismillah in 91 is a structural choice, not proof of later corruption.


                        1. Closing thought
                          The “gatekeeper” concept works semantically when we see Bismillah as a frame of initiation — but MQD focuses on the meaning, not on code-19 numerology.
                          In this framework, the integrity of Surah 9 is intact, and its opening and closing features serve deliberate rhetorical purposes embedded in the Qur’an’s original design.

                        Wassalam,
                        Mr. The MQD 3.x

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                        • T Offline
                          T Offline
                          TellMeTheTruth
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          New questions

                          1. What is the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger according to the Quran

                          2. Since Muhammad was the last prophet (3340), there will be no new prophet after him
                            What about messengers after Muhammad
                            Is there any upcoming messenger of God after his era!

                          Thanks.

                          Brother Shukri,

                          Assalamu Alaikum,

                          Let’s look at your questions strictly through the MQD 3.x lens, focusing on root-letter meanings and Qur’anic usage.


                          1. Difference between Prophet (نبي) and Messenger (رسول)

                          نبي → (ن + ب + ي)

                          • ن To descend, settle, or be positioned.
                          • ب To manifest, clarify, bring forth into perception.
                          • ي To extend, continue, or reach out.

                          Combined A نبي is one who receives a descended and settled body of knowledge from the Divine and manifests it clearly to others.


                          رسول → (ر + س + ل)

                          • ر Stabilize, fix in place.
                          • س Direct flow, align toward a path.
                          • ل Bind, connect, establish linkage.

                          Combined A رسول is one entrusted with delivering, directing, and establishing a message from the Divine — whether received firsthand or passed on from previous revelation.

                          Key distinction

                          • Prophet (نبي) → Receives revelation directly and manifests it.
                          • Messenger (رسول) → Delivers and implements a Divine message (can be a prophet, or can be a messenger without being a prophet, such as bringing forward existing scripture).

                          1. خاتم النبیین in 3340

                          خاتم → (خ + ت + م)

                          • خ Enclose, protect from outside interference.
                          • ت Mark, designate.
                          • م Sustain, maintain continuity.

                          Combined "One who secures and seals something, marking it as complete and preserved."

                          Thus, خاتم النبیین means "The one who secures, seals, and completes the line of prophets" — Muhammad is the last in the chain of نبي, preserving and finalizing that role.


                          1. Are there messengers after Muhammad?

                          Since a messenger (رسول) can deliver a Divine message without being a prophet, the Qur’an does not linguistically restrict رسل to the prophetic era. However

                          • All prophetic revelation ended with Muhammad.
                          • Any post-Muhammad messenger would not bring new revelation, but would call people back to the preserved message of the Qur’an.
                          • The Qur’an also speaks of رسل in a broader sense — even within communities, delivering God’s message is a messenger-function.

                          From the MQD view The prophetic role is sealed, but the messenger function — in the sense of conveying and applying the preserved message — continues among those who take up that responsibility.


                          Summary

                          • نبي = Receiver and manifester of revelation.
                          • رسول = Deliverer and establisher of Divine message.
                          • Muhammad is خاتم النبیین — the one who seals and secures the prophetic line.
                          • No new revelation after him, but messenger-type roles in the broader sense can exist as long as the Qur’an’s message is conveyed and upheld.

                          Wassalam,
                          Mr. The MQD 3.x

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            // No new revelation after him, but messenger-type roles in the broader sense can exist as long as the Qur'an's message is conveyed and upheld.//

                            The word is triad relational word.

                            Is it reflection of thought of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or of Rashad Khalifa?

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                            • shukriS Offline
                              shukriS Offline
                              shukri
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28
                              1. The claim about 9128–129
                                MQD 3.x does not authenticate or reject verses based on numerical patterns; it relies on linguistic coherence, thematic integration, and root-consistency across the text.

                              When we apply this to 9128–129

                              • The language, root usage, and rhetorical style match the rest of the Qur'an.
                              • Thematic flow is consistent they act as a closing appeal to divine mercy after a long passage of firmness and warning.

                              Therefore, from an MQD linguistic-semantic perspective, there is no internal evidence that these verses are “human insertions.” The absence of the Bismillah in 91 is a structural choice, not proof of later corruption.

                              What about the words "Ra'oof and Raheem"
                              This combined names of "Ra'oof and Raheem" used exclusively for God in the Quran except in 9128.
                              Does this seem odd or unusual?"

                              God is 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards the people (2265)
                              God is 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards you (579)
                              He was 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards them (9117)
                              Indeed, your Lord is 'Ra'oof', 'Raheem' (167)
                              Our Lord, You are 'Ra'oof', 'Raheem' (5910)

                              9128 A messenger has come to you from yourselves, troubled over your deviation, anxious over you, towards the believers he (Muhammad) is Ra'oof' and 'Raheem.

                              Salam
                              Thanks!

                              "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                              • shukriS Offline
                                shukriS Offline
                                shukri
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                Additional Question on Prophet/Messenger

                                381 God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

                                Who is this special messenger?
                                Angelic messenger or human messenger!

                                If the answer is a human messenger,
                                a. Why this messenger is so important, which needs all the prophet to make a covenant before God agrees to believe and support him!
                                b. Is this Messenger will come to each prophet when they are still alive OR after they all have left their worldly life!

                                Note
                                The covenant is taking place in the heaven after all prophet have dead is not impossible
                                As the righteous do not really die as they go straight to heaven after death

                                3169 Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of God are dead; they are alive at their Lord, enjoying His provisions.
                                2154 Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.

                                3626 (At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "Oh, I wish my people knew.
                                3627 "That my Lord has forgiven me, and made me honorable."

                                Sorry, too many questions for you!
                                Just to know "The MQD 3.x " perspective in interpreting this very "controversial" verse (381)!

                                Thank you very much.

                                "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                                • shukriS Offline
                                  shukriS Offline
                                  shukri
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  Additional Question on Prophet/Messenger

                                  381 God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

                                  Who is this special messenger?
                                  Angelic messenger or human messenger!

                                  If the answer is a human messenger,
                                  a. Why this messenger is so important, which needs all the prophet to make a covenant before God agrees to believe and support him!
                                  b. Is this Messenger will come to each prophet when they are still alive OR after they all have left their worldly life!

                                  Note
                                  The covenant is taking place in the heaven after all prophet have dead is not impossible
                                  As the righteous do not really die as they go straight to heaven after death

                                  3169 Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of God are dead; they are alive at their Lord, enjoying His provisions.
                                  2154 Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.

                                  3626 (At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "Oh, I wish my people knew.
                                  3627 "That my Lord has forgiven me, and made me honorable."

                                  Sorry, too many questions for you!
                                  Just to know "The MQD 3.x " perspective in interpreting this very "controversial" verse (381)!

                                  Thank you very much.

                                  "Correction"
                                  About verse 381

                                  I checked the word "ātaytukum ءاتَيتُكُم" with Quran Corpus
                                  And it translated as "I (have) given you" NOT "I will give you"

                                  So, I think the correct translation for verse 381 should be

                                  381 God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I have given you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

                                  Thank you.

                                  "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    "Correction"
                                    About verse 381

                                    I checked the word "ātaytukum ءاتَيتُكُم" with Quran Corpus
                                    And it translated as "I (have) given you" NOT "I will give you"

                                    So, I think the correct translation for verse 381 should be

                                    381 God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I have given you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

                                    Thank you.

                                    Divine Communication (وَحْـىٚ) of guidance (هُدٙى)

                                    The Covenant

                                    to Grand Qur’ān

                                    ٱلْـكَـوْثَرَ

                                    the ultimate profundity
                                    https//haqeeqat.pk/Divine%20Communication.pdf

                                    The diction for relaying of Covenant is marvellous; it enables us watch it as the oath-taking ceremony. Grant of the Book is essential complement and recognition feature of ٱلنَّبِىُّ. It was incumbent upon Allah the Exalted as undertaken in the Covenant

                                    وَإِذْ أَخَذَ ٱللَّهُ مِيثَـٟـقَ ٱلنَّبِيِّــۦنَ

                                    You the Messenger mention the event of assigning them the responsibility they discharged; When Allah the Exalted had obtained the Pledge-Covenant-Oath of the Chosen, Dignified and elevated Sincere Allegiants, to the effect

                                    مِيثَـٟـقَ ٱلنَّبِىِّــۦنَ It is the direct object of preceding verb. The First Noun of Possessive Phrase مِيثَـٟـقَ is derived from Root "و ث ق". Basic perception encoded is described by Ibn Faris "(تدلُّ على عَقْدٍ وإحكام) that it leads to the perception of an agreement, covenant, firm knot, bond, solemn pledge; and binding decisions, obligations". Covenant is an agreement by freewill between two sentient parties. Its provisions contain promise by a party and a solemn pledge by the other group to fulfil an obligation. It is distinct from promise and bilateral agreement; it is irrevocable. Articles of this Covenant were

                                    لَمَآ ءَاتَيْتُكُـم مِّن كِتَٟبٛ وَحِكْمَةٛ

                                    "That which I would have given to you individually for communication to people a segment of a book (Mother/Principal) and wisdom-knowledge of invisible- infolded facts, judging rightly in matters relating to life and conduct —

                                    The prologue particle "لَ" renders the possibility of following statement certain in the manner of an oath. The verbal sentence is the relative clause for the Relative noun. The plural second person first object pronoun refers them individually and as collective group. If this aspect of Arabic plural pronoun is overlooked the content and intent might not be perceived accurately. The Form-IV doubly transitive future perfect verb signifies that thing which would have been delivered to them individually or as a group. The prepositional phrase is about circumstantial clause for specification of the elided second object that determines what will be given is the text drawn from a book containing knowledge and wisdom. It (ءَاتَيْتُكُـم) is a different proposition than أَنزَلَ مَعَهُـمُ ٱلْـكِـتَٟبَ بِٱلْحَقِّ, and shall be deemed accomplished when certain book is duly given

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                                    • T Offline
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                                      TellMeTheTruth
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      What about the words "Ra'oof and Raheem"
                                      This combined names of "Ra'oof and Raheem" used exclusively for God in the Quran except in 9128.
                                      Does this seem odd or unusual?"

                                      God is 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards the people (2265)
                                      God is 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards you (579)
                                      He was 'Ra'oof' and 'Raheem' towards them (9117)
                                      Indeed, your Lord is 'Ra'oof', 'Raheem' (167)
                                      Our Lord, You are 'Ra'oof', 'Raheem' (5910)

                                      9128 A messenger has come to you from yourselves, troubled over your deviation, anxious over you, towards the believers he (Muhammad) is Ra'oof' and 'Raheem.

                                      Salam
                                      Thanks!

                                      Salam brother shukri

                                      You raised a very good point. Let us briefly reflect on the names Ra’ūf (رؤوف) and Raḥīm (رحيم) with a Minimal Qur’anic Decoding (MQD) lens.

                                      In the Qur’an, these names are used not only for Allah but also extended to the Prophet (see 9128 بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَؤُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ).
                                      This shows that such qualities are not exclusive labels but divine attributes that can be reflected in creation.

                                      Structurally

                                      • ر و ف (Ra-Wa-F) root carries the sense of deeply felt gentleness, protective care.
                                      • ر ح م (Ra-Ḥa-M) root denotes nurturing mercy, womb-like care, binding compassion.

                                      These attributes are part of the core table (15–16 May 2025) where ر = flow/spread, و = link/extension, ف = manifest/express, and ح–م = enclosure/protection.

                                      Note also the Qur’an does not always prefix these names with al-.
                                      This indicates a fluid quality — they are attributes in action, not just frozen titles.

                                      Qur’an itself points out degrees of sharing these divine qualities

                                      • أرحم الراحمين (Most Merciful of the merciful)
                                      • أحسن الخالقين (Best of creators)
                                      • خير الرازقين (Best of providers)

                                      Meaning Allah is the ultimate source of these qualities, but others may reflect them partially.

                                      Thus, when Qur’an ascribes Ra’ūf and Raḥīm to the Prophet, it does not mean divinity is shared — rather, the Prophet’s character embodies these divine attributes in the human domain, while Allah remains the supreme possessor of them.

                                      Peace!

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                                        TellMeTheTruth
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        // No new revelation after him, but messenger-type roles in the broader sense can exist as long as the Qur'an's message is conveyed and upheld.//

                                        The word is triad relational word.

                                        Is it reflection of thought of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or of Rashad Khalifa?

                                        Dear brother, Salam!

                                        The Qur’an is clear that rasool (messenger) is a functional designation, not a fixed title for one individual only.

                                        A rasool can be a human prophet (sent to a community).

                                        A rasool can be a malaikah (e.g., Jibreel in 1919).

                                        A rasool can even be the scripture itself, carrying the divine message (515-16, 6511).

                                        So, the Qur’an uses the term flexibly. It always means the medium through which Allah’s message is delivered, whether person, angel, or book.

                                        I don't follow person's or sects nor MQD does

                                        Traditionally, mainstream schools restrict rasool to human envoys. But Qur’anic usage doesn’t box it that way. If we read without inherited filters, both “the Qur’an as rasool” and “Muhammad as rasool” are valid layers. The Book continues as rasool after him, while no new human rasool arises. That’s a balanced synthesis no need to import Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Rashad Khalifa ideas, but also no denial of the Qur’an’s living messenger role.

                                        Peace!

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                                        • shukriS Offline
                                          shukriS Offline
                                          shukri
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          Salam brother shukri

                                          You raised a very good point. Let us briefly reflect on the names Ra’ūf (رؤوف) and Raḥīm (رحيم) with a Minimal Qur’anic Decoding (MQD) lens.

                                          In the Qur’an, these names are used not only for Allah but also extended to the Prophet (see 9128 بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَؤُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ).
                                          This shows that such qualities are not exclusive labels but divine attributes that can be reflected in creation.

                                          Structurally

                                          • ر و ف (Ra-Wa-F) root carries the sense of deeply felt gentleness, protective care.
                                          • ر ح م (Ra-Ḥa-M) root denotes nurturing mercy, womb-like care, binding compassion.

                                          These attributes are part of the core table (15–16 May 2025) where ر = flow/spread, و = link/extension, ف = manifest/express, and ح–م = enclosure/protection.

                                          Note also the Qur’an does not always prefix these names with al-.
                                          This indicates a fluid quality — they are attributes in action, not just frozen titles.

                                          Qur’an itself points out degrees of sharing these divine qualities

                                          • أرحم الراحمين (Most Merciful of the merciful)
                                          • أحسن الخالقين (Best of creators)
                                          • خير الرازقين (Best of providers)

                                          Meaning Allah is the ultimate source of these qualities, but others may reflect them partially.

                                          Thus, when Qur’an ascribes Ra’ūf and Raḥīm to the Prophet, it does not mean divinity is shared — rather, the Prophet’s character embodies these divine attributes in the human domain, while Allah remains the supreme possessor of them.

                                          Peace!

                                          I have no more questions on this topic
                                          Thanks a lot for the response!

                                          "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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