The Mark on their Forehead
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Salam Damon...excellent points.
If you don't mind, I'd like to add one. It's often discussed in Bible classes and usually involves lots of complicated explanations that never seem to quite fit. That is the contradiction between the Book of James and Paul's comments in Romans.
James 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
But Paul directly contradicts in this in Romans by saying that man is saved by faith alone. No works are needed.The controversy over this has even led, in the past, to discussions about whether or not the Book of James should be removed from the Bible. Now, why should one of the Gospels be removed in favor of the writings of someone who used to stone Christians and ended up making so many concessions to the pagan Gentiles that he found himself in disagreement with Peter and Barnabas?
The Quran is consistent with James on this issue, which is consistent with Abraham, Moses, and David to name a few.
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Salaamun alaikum,
An analogy is called for here. Lets say Muhammad ibn Abdullah was a salesman and the product he was bringing was al-quraan. How do I know he's not cheating me? Well, if he was true, then his PRODUCT must be true.
His product doesn't need any extraneous texts to verify itself. Rather it says
Soon will We show them OUR SIGNS IN THE HORIZONS AND IN THIER SOULS, until it becomes manifest to them that this is THE TRUTH. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things? (41/53)
Al-Quraan gives every kind of example (kulli mathaal- 17/89) to humankind. It challenges humankind to bring a message like it.
No, we don't need angels to bring the message or the son of God to die for us. Rather, we have a detailed map of the human condition and the choice on whether we want to walk the path or conceal it (kufr).
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Do they not consider The Quran? Had it been from any other than GOD, they would have found in it MUCH DISCREPENCY.
Discrepency...meaning any contradictions and/or errors. Not to mention obvious lies and untruths.
So any word of GOD (even an Inspired word of GOD) cannot and should not contain ANY errors OR contradictions!! Am I correct??.
Thank you for opening Pandora's Box Damon, your a good friend. This will take many posts to deal with all the contradictions errors in the quran so I will start with a few and add to them over the comming weeks
The Day of Judgement.. To Speak or Not to speak.
.. neither will they question one another.
.. and they will turn to one another, and question one another.
Did the Injil come after Moses or before
Allah talks to Moses and says
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own, in the Taurat and the Gospel
Allah is telling Moses about what is already written in the Torah and Gospel. We all know this is wrong because the Injil wasn't given to Jesus untill about 1000 yrs after.
Jesus will goto hell according to one verse in the Quran
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
According to ALL muslims, christians worship Jesus. And according to 2198 the object/person of worship goes to hell. This contradicts 4158 that says Jesus was Raised upto God.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself
Allah can have a Son.. No Allah can't have a son
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
6101 leaves out ANY possiblity of haveing a son. Wait maybe Allah has changed his mind and he could have a son
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
ALL Muslims goto Hell.. No Wait Matrys Don't goto Hell
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell)
Wait Martyrs wont..
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord
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Wow. That's quite a collection of pieces taken out of context.
So...skipping over this....I've been making my way through the threads here, but maybe someone can tell me if there's a discussion anywhere about 1971. Especially in regard to whether it is "approaching" or "seeing" or "passing through" hell. I find this ayat interesting when compared with the Catholic view of purgatory.
Peace.
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This will take many posts to deal with all the contradictions errors in the quran so I will start with a few and add to them over the comming weeks
That's quite comical. I am now going to expose your massive ignorance and your feeble attempts to erect ideas in the quran that don't even exist....all for the sake of pretending that you see error or contradiction in it.
The Day of Judgement.. To Speak or Not to speak.
.. neither will they question one another.
.. and they will turn to one another, and question one another.
If you are going to try to quote from the quran, you need to either learn Quranic Arabic or (at the very least) utilize many different translations. It is painfully obvious that you have not made use of either of these suggestions.
Fa-'izaa nufikha fi Ssuuri falaaa 'ansaaba baynahum Yawma 'izinwwa laa yatasaaa 'aluun
When the horn is blown, no relations among them will exist on that day, nor will they care about one another
(23101)It simply means that every human being that day will only be concerned about his or her own fate and will not be concerned with the fate of any other on that day...not even for one's own parents.
This goes to show how crooked you truly are. 23101 is talking about The Last Day!! The day that the horn is blown, whereas 3727 is talking about The Day of Judgement which takes place well after the trumpet is blown. Make that strike one for you. Let us move on.
Did the Injil come after Moses or before
Allah talks to Moses and says
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own, in the Taurat and the Gospel
Allah is telling Moses about what is already written in the Torah and Gospel. We all know this is wrong because the Injil wasn't given to Jesus untill about 1000 yrs after.
Once again your ignorance is shining through. First of all, even the staunchest of Anti-Islamists all realize that case histories of the past and divine instruction are mingled together in the same passages. Verses 157 and 158 of chapter are not even dealing with Moses or his community. Those verses are divine instruction to the believers who have witnessed the prophet through whom the quran was revealed. Try reading it again. Verse 158 begins with the command verb Qul which is a commandment to proclaim. This commandment is reserved ALL THROUGHOUT THE QURAN strictly for the one through whom the quran is being revealed.
ALSO (and this is the most important part) the prophet of verses 157 and 158 is refered to as Nnabiyy IL-Ummiya....The GENTILE PROPHET....one who does not come from Judaic/Hebrew Line of prophethood. Obviously this isn't talking about Moses. Second of all, these verses have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. How did Jesus even become involved in that scenario? Make that strike two.
Jesus will goto hell according to one verse in the Quran
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
According to ALL muslims, christians worship Jesus. And according to 2198 the object/person of worship goes to hell. This contradicts 4158 that says Jesus was Raised upto God.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself
This shows that you are 100% Dishonest!! And I'm not the least bit surprised. You know full well that 2198 doesn't even remotely allude to Jesus, son of Mary. Keep everything in the context which they were revealed in. I told you your ignorance of Arabic is what's blinding you as much as your general spiritual ignorance.
'Innakum wa maa ta'buduuna min duunillahi hasabu Jahannum 'Antum lahaa waariduun.
You and that which YOU SERVE beside GOD are fuel for Hell. In it you will abide.
(219'ibaada means to serve NOT worship. 'Abid means servant or slave. Ta'abuduuna does not mean that which you worship...it means that which you SERVE. Learn some 'Arabic if your going to try to critisize an 'Arabic work. And the verse expresses how your actions and deeds which you perform according to your own selfish desires instead of according to GOD and what He wants of us will land you a cozy spot in Hell. That's strike three. You're already out.
Allah can have a Son.. No Allah can't have a son
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
6101 leaves out ANY possiblity of haveing a son. Wait maybe Allah has changed his mind and he could have a son
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
First of all, where in these statements is there a contradiction?? On the one hand, one statement says that He DOES NOT have a son. On the other hand, the other statement says that IF HE WANTED TO HAVE A SON He could do so by a certain means. But never mind that, let's look at these verses more closely.
6101 clearly illustrates the ludicrousness of the Jesus is GOD's son blasphemy by explaining, quite simply, that GOD is the sole creator of the entire universe and everything in it. He has absolutely no partners to speak of. So why one earth would He choose to have a son without choosing a partner?? 6101 is a logic issue which blatantly escapes you.
394 starts off with IF GOD WANTED TO HAVE A SON... Why don't you repeat that 7 word phrase to yourself a few times. The two key words are IF and WANTED. Your self-imposed claim that 6101 rules out ANY possibilty of Him having a son will do you no good against one who knows how to exercise logic and make proper use of the language. I can guarantee you that no one with common sense will come to this conclusion which you are trying to forcefully establish. 6101 doesn't rule out the possibility of having a son, it rules out that He Does have a son. Strike four.
ALL Muslims goto Hell.. No Wait Matrys Don't goto Hell
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell)
Wait Martyrs wont..
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord
Read the two verses before it (verses 69 and 70). These verses make it very clear who it is that will see the Hell as described in 1971. You actually don't need to know the 'Arabic to understand it. You do need honesty and common sense though. That's totally up to you as to whether or not you are willing to exercise logic. I will help you though. I will post the verses for you. Watch closely now
Then We will pick out from each group the most ardent opponent of the Most Gracious.
We know full well those who are most deserving of burning therein.
(1969-70)I can assure you that 1971 is talking about those people that GOD had already picked out in verses 69 and 70. You should know better by now than to try and isolate single verses out of context. Strike five.
By the way, you still haven't refutted the contradictions that I posted. And you still haven't answered my question as to whether or not every man sins. What's the matter? I will quote one of your earlier posts in this thread
Why is it such a difficult to answer.
There are many ways this question can be answered without the constent avoidance.
I eagerly await your response to my earlier inquiries.
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Peace sytalls,
maybe someone can tell me if there's a discussion anywhere about 1971. Especially in regard to whether it is "approaching" or "seeing" or "passing through" hell. I find this ayat interesting when compared with the Catholic view of purgatory.
1971 is addressing the ones that GOD has already hand picked in the two verses preceding verse 71 (69 and 70.)
Peace.
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Peace Damon...and thanks. Yes, that's the way I read it, as well. There's a clear distinction between the obedient group and the ones who preferred the life of this world.
But I really wasn't interested in albion's comments, more in learning whether there was a discussion with others elsewhere. Perhaps with those who don't promote the feeling of trying to carry water in a bucket with holes. Or is this a newbie rite of passage?
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Salaam Albion,
I believe MQ gave an answer that mine would have been similar to. His is an analogy, but it makes a point about how one can determine the authenticity of alquran by its verification and authenticity . I am awaiting your reply to his statement. Thanks.
Joe
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another thing about 2198
Both you and what you serve besides The God shall be fuel for Hell; you will enter it. (2198 )
if you look a few verses later
If these were gods, then they would not have entered it! And all will abide therein.
They will be breathing heavily in it, and they will not be heard therein.
As for those who deserved good from Us, they will be removed far away from it. (2199-101) -
MIRACLES ARE NOT A TEST
Matthew 2424
24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.Here is the test of a true book.
Matthew720
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.482 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, then they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Quran - no scientific errors, no contradictions
Bible - full of scientific impossibilities, 50000 contradictions/errors by some counts, and porn