Muhammad not mentioned in the Koran...
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Peace upon you Apple Pie,
You don't have to thank me nor anyone else, all the thanks and sollicitations belong to the god the creator the merciful, it is to him that you owe everything.
He is the one that keeps you alive, allowing you time to better your self before it comes a day when you will regret all this time spent in limitless arguing, when nobody would be of any help for you.
One truth that is indisputable, is that everybody will die. So work for that day, nobody knows if it is far or is it for today, and make good use of the remaining time.
And do not look down on me, and come to me enclined to the peace.
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Greetings Applepie,
I have a qustion I'd like to ask you Do I intimidate you that much that you avoid me and the thread I invited you to upon your own request??!!
No need. I'll ask again here in this thread.
Do they not consider The Quran? Had it been from any other than GOD, they would have found in it MUCH DISCREPENCY.
Discrepency...meaning any contradictions and/or errors. Not to mention obvious lies and untruths.
Any word of GOD (even an Inspired word of GOD) cannot and should not contain ANY errors OR contradictions!!
Can you point out any contradictions in The Quran? Please bring them forth. I am bringing forth some contradictions that are clearly in The Bible. Please try and refute these findings (for like the thousandth time now). Any references you see where there is the emoticon with sunglasses on, that's is the number eight. example....if you see something that says (John 1, you know that it is John, Chapter one, verse eight.
*Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel. GOD or Satan?
GOD did (2 samuel 241)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 11) How on earth can The Word of GOD confuse Satan with the Author of The Word of GOD??!!*GOD sent His prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 2413)
Three (I Chronicles 2112)*When did David bring the ark of the convenant to Jerusalem?Before defeating the Philistines or After defeating them?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)*How may pairs of clean animals did GOD tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 619, 20)
Seven (72). However, despite this clear instruction from GOD, only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 78-9)*Ezra 264 and Nehemiah 766 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows
29,818 (Ezra)
31,089 (Nehemiah)*Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?
Yes (Joshua 1023, 40)
No (Joshua 1563) Hhhmmm....two contradictions in the same book. Very intriguing.*Jesus decended from which son of David?
Solomon (Matthew 16)
Nathan (Luke 331)*Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?
Yes (Matthew II 14, 1710-13)
No (John 119-21)*How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?
By a revelation from Heaven (Matthew 1617)
His brother Andrew told him (John 141)*Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?
By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 418-22)
On the banks of river Jordan (John 142). AFTER THAT, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 143)*Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?
Yes (Mark 6
No (Matthew 109, Luke 93)Here's a really challenging one for you
*According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?"If I bear witness to myself, my testimony Is Not true." (John 531)
"Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony IS true." (John 814) I can't wait to see your response to this one as well as the next one.....*Did Jesus bear his own cross?
Yes (John 1917)
No (Matthew 2731-32)How about this one......
*Did Jesus say anything secretly?No. "I have said nothing secretly." (John 1820)
Yes. "He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything" (Mark 434). The disciples asked him "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." (Matthew 13 10-11)
*Where was Jesus at the Sixth Hour on the Day of the crucifixion?
On the cross (Mark 1523)
In Pilate's Court (John 1914)*How did Judas die?
After he threw the money into the temple he went away amd hanged himself (Matthew 275)
After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 11
*Why is the Field called "Field of Blood"?
Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27
Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 119)*Is the law of Moses useful?
Yes. "All scripture is...profitable..." (2 Timothy 316)
No. "...A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness..." (Hebrews 71*Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector's office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?
Matthew (Matthew 99)
Levi (Mark 214; Luke 527)*Did Jesus pray to the heavenly father to prevent the crucifixion?
Yes (Matthew 2639; Mark 1436; Luke 2242)
No (John 1227)*Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 217)
However, Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 55)
*What was the purpose for which the women went to Jesus' tomb?
To anoint Jesus' body with spices (Mark 161; Luke 2355 to 241)
To see the tomb. Nothing about spices mentioned here (Matthew 281)
For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices has been done before the Sabbath (John 201)There are literally thousands of very obvious contradictions and errors in the Bible. This list is just a small smidgen of what I have uncovered. I can list almost a thousand more errors and contradictions. I ask if you can disprove these findings. I also ask if you can find any such contradictions and errors in The Quran as I have in the Bible.
I have another question that I'd like to ask you.
Please read the following passages from the Bible*Does every man sin?
Yes. "There is no man who does not sin." (I Kings 846; see also 2 Chronicles 636; Proverbs 209; Ecclesiastes 720; and I John 18-10)
"If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1
No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of GOD. "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. (I John 51)
"No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God." (I John 39)
My next question is which one of these statements is the correct one?? They both cannot be correct....they are in 100% total contradiction of each other. So which one is true and which one is false?
Are you brave enough to even try and answer this post or are you aware that these blatant contradictions are simply irrefutable? twisted
Ciao.
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Greetings Damon,
Let?s review your comment?.
I have a qustion I'd like to ask you Do I intimidate you that much that you avoid me and the thread I invited you to upon your own request??!!
Show us where we ever stated that we were going to entertain your worthless webpaste?.
We want to relish the jitter-bug dance that we have you doing?
Take care?
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Show us where we ever stated that we were going to entertain your worthless webpaste.
Three things apple....
1). I gurantee you that it aint a webpaste....it's my own post. I don't pull the cowardly cut - and - paste stunts that your friend albion pulls. I do the one thing that neither one of you do....I read and study. Even if I do come across something on the web, I'll internalize it and present it to others in my own words. That is as long as I accept and agree with the info itself. And if I ever present anything almost word for word the way I have read it elsewhere, it's only because I feel satisfied that the presentation is sufficient to prove the point that I have accepted and agree with.
2). These are the satements that you've made directly to me alone over the course of this thread
Since this thread deals with Muhammad not being mentioned in the Koranperhaps you could be so gracious as to start a dedicated thread with your insecurities wink
AndIll be waiting for you to start that dedicated thread of insecurities of yours
Start a new thread with your webpasted insecurities... lol
A thread has been started addressing exactly these insecurities I have. But you're not brave enough to come and get some of it.
3). I already know that you will not join that thread and entertain me in a one on one Quran vs. Bible debate. It's clearly a losing battle for you. mrgreen
You already have your hands full as it is from being exposed by others here in this thread...particularly Priest Bokmei. I'll leave you be since it's obvious anyway that you cannot and will not rebuttal these facts from your book. That was made clear when you dodged me earlier in this thread after I first posted them. wink
I'll leave you be and accept your silence and refusal/inability to refute me as your way of waving the white flag.
We want to relish the jitter-bug dance that we have you doing
Are we talking about the same dance that Priest Bokmei and TheNabi have you doing now.....??
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The Creator God of the Holy Bible is not THREE, but ONE.
Again? The Creator God of the Holy Bible is not THREE, but ONE.
I have demonstrated otherwise?Thanks?
And thanks. You have just denied the whole concept of trinity.
So if God is one, then Jesus is not God. Also the Holy Spirit is not God.
And if the Qur'an parrots Biblical material , then the Bible would also be teaching strict monotheism, not trinitarianism.
Back to the audience seat.
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Greetings Damon,
Thanks for your reply?
Apple Pie wrote
Show us where we ever stated that we were going to entertain your worthless webpaste?.Three things apple....
1). I gurantee you that it aint a webpaste....it's my own post. I don't pull the cowardly cut - and - paste stunts that your friend albion pulls. I do the one thing that neither one of you do....I read and study. Even if I do come across something on the web, I'll internalize it and present it to others in my own words. That is as long as I accept and agree with the info itself. And if I ever present anything almost word for word the way I have read it elsewhere, it's only because I feel satisfied that the presentation is sufficient to prove the point that I have accepted and agree with.
Your repeat posts contain the same polemics that are floating endlessly on the web?
2). These are the satements that you've made directly to me alone over the course of this thread
Quote
Since this thread deals with Muhammad not being mentioned in the Koran?perhaps you could be so gracious as to start a dedicated thread with your insecurities?And?I?ll be waiting for you to start that dedicated thread of insecurities of yours?
Start a new thread with your webpasted insecurities...
A thread has been started addressing exactly these insecurities I have. But you're not brave enough to come and get some of it.
Again? please show us where we ever stated that we were going to entertain your worthless webpaste?.
3). I already know that you will not join that thread and entertain me in a one on one Quran vs. Bible debate. It's clearly a losing battle for you.
You already have your hands full as it is from being exposed by others here in this thread...particularly Priest Bokmei. I'll leave you be since it's obvious anyway that you cannot and will not rebuttal these facts from your book. That was made clear when you dodged me earlier in this thread after I first posted them.
I'll leave you be and accept your silence and refusal/inability to refute me as your way of waving the white flag.
Apple Pie wrote
We want to relish the jitter-bug dance that we have you doing?Are we talking about the same dance that Priest Bokmei and TheNabi have you doing now.....??
If you post something that strikes our fancy, then you will be the first to know about it? wink
Now that you have vented?.
Run along?
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Greetings Andya Primanda,
Thanks for coming out of your audience seating?
Apple Pie wrote
The Creator God of the Holy Bible is not THREE, but ONE.
Again? The Creator God of the Holy Bible is not THREE, but ONE.
I have demonstrated otherwise?Thanks?
And thanks. You have just denied the whole concept of trinity.
So if God is one, then Jesus is not God. Also the Holy Spirit is not God.
Explain?
And if the Qur'an parrots Biblical material ,
Perhaps this is because I am the only one who bothers to study your book of faith in the classic Arabic in which it was penned?
Anyone who does so will immediately see the endless streams proclaimed by its authors that they simply copied, translated and referenced copious amounts of Biblical material into the formation of their opus?
then the Bible would also be teaching strict monotheism, not trinitarianism.
Back to the audience seat.
Ironically?.the authors of the Koran get the ONE God concept from the Holy Bible.
This is quite a new status for the god allah, as this fictitious entity has its roots in pagan Arab god worship?
The authors of the Koran have simply attempted to wrap the pagan Arab god allah with the Biblical deity ascribed unto Jesus, from centuries prior.
They even copied-over the Biblical concept of the ONE God as a triune entity?
Who would have guessed?.
Thanks?
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Proverbs 299
a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, no rest.Quran
2111 And they say "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."2135 They say "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with God."
514 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.
930 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them how they are deluded away from the Truth!
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QXP
378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.4171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion. Say nothing about God except the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary was a Messenger of Allah, the fulfillment of His Word to Mary, created according to the Laws of Creation and given free will from the Divine Energy (like all human beings 1529, 327-9, 3872). Believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not ?Three". Cease! It is for your own good. God is but One God. Far removed it is from His Supreme Majesty that He should have a son. Everything in the Highs and everything in the Lows belongs to Him. He is the Self-Sufficient Sustainer of the Universe (2255).
4172 Never was the Messiah too proud to serve Allah, nor the angels nearest to Him shy from obeying Him. Whoever shuns His service and is proud, He will assemble all unto Him.
515 O People of the Book! Now has come to you Our Messenger, to make clear to you much of what you have been concealing from yourselves and others. He ignores much of the irrelevant accounts and pardons much of your misdeeds. Now has come to you from Allah a Beacon of Light and a Clear Book.
516 Through this Book Allah guides to paths of Peace, those who seek His Approval. He brings them out of darkness into the Light of His Grace, and guides them to the Straight Path.
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Greetings Tay,
Thanks for your reply?
QXP
378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.Please inform us as to the definition of ?alkitaba? which is directly referenced an astounding 33x just in this one sura?
4171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion. Say nothing about God except the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary was a Messenger of Allah, the fulfillment of His Word to Mary, created according to the Laws of Creation and given free will from the Divine Energy (like all human beings 1529, 327-9, 3872). Believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not ?Three". Cease! It is for your own good. God is but One God. Far removed it is from His Supreme Majesty that He should have a son. Everything in the Highs and everything in the Lows belongs to Him. He is the Self-Sufficient Sustainer of the Universe (2255).
4172 Never was the Messiah too proud to serve Allah, nor the angels nearest to Him shy from obeying Him. Whoever shuns His service and is proud, He will assemble all unto Him.
I would like to see your exegesis on these ayahs..
In particular, please show why you rendered ?waladun? as you did?
515 O People of the Book! Now has come to you Our Messenger, to make clear to you much of what you have been concealing from yourselves and others. He ignores much of the irrelevant accounts and pardons much of your misdeeds. Now has come to you from Allah a Beacon of Light and a Clear Book.
516 Through this Book Allah guides to paths of Peace, those who seek His Approval. He brings them out of darkness into the Light of His Grace, and guides them to the Straight Path.
Please inform us who this ?messenger? is?.and why?
Thanks?
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May peace be upon you Apple Pie,
I have no doubt that you are a bright individual. Your thoughts are always well-expressed and your wit, albeit quite nasty at times, reflects a level of experience that is certainly admirable. But intelligence alone does not bridge the gap between mind and spirit. This is the boat that you seem to keep missing.
All these debates for years on countless forums, and what has it gotten you besides sharpened debating tools and gigabytes of data on your hard drive? Have you saved any souls? Has your spirit developed? Do you follow in the footsteps of the one you claim to defend?
What do you do when you're not debating? Do you teach with love? Do you donate to charities? Do you participate any volunteer work?
I would think by now you would have realized that you're going about things the wrong way. You're wasting your talent and your time. Why not look for common denominators instead of differences? Why not bridge the gaps between the faiths instead of spreading further discord?
You told me once that you were here to learn. I've seen no evidence of this whatsoever.
Here's the bottom line, which, no matter how many exegesis' you paste, you cannot overcome
There is only one God. It requires a leap of faith and an abandonment of logic to think that God would need a trilateral approach.
But good luck in your journey anyway.
QXP
577 Say, "O People of the Book! Do not overstep the bounds of Truth in your religious beliefs. And do not follow the errant views of people who have gone astray long before, and led a great many others astray, and those who are still straying from the Even Way.1240 "Those whom you worship and obey besides Him, are but names that you have named, you and your forefathers. Allah has revealed no authority for them. All ruling belongs to Allah alone. And there is no Judge but He. He has commanded that you serve none but Him. That is the Right Religion. But most people are not aware of this fact or disregard it in practice."
575 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a Messenger, like other Messengers before him who passed on. And his mother was a woman of truth. Both of them were human beings who had to eat food (like all other mortals). See how clearly We explain Our verses for them and note how they keep wandering in thought!
576 Say, ?Would you worship in place of Allah that which possesses no power of harm or benefit to you?? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.
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Greetings Tay,
I truly appreciate your comments?
Thanks for your kudos, and likewise, I appreciate your composure.
Forum debate is perhaps the best motivator for sparking investigation into deeper scriptural study.
That, in a nutshell, is why I spend copious amounts of time in ?enemy camp??as it were?
The Gospels demonstrate to us that Jesus is the great debater. He purposely ventured into areas where He was unwanted and His message was despised. His message upset many. He was utterly ruthless in His discussions with people.
His example has inspired me.
While I will never achieve anywhere close to His example, and will always remain tied to my human sinful nature; I can, however, put my talents into something that will be everlasting?
To that end?my goal is to turn Islam on its ear?by bringing forth the truths contained within my research via the internet?
As far as bringing souls to faith in the true Creator God of the Universe, as described within the pages of the Holy Bible, it is perhaps easier to bring an atheist into the fold than it is to bring a practicing Muslim.
Few people, of any faith, truly understand what the truth is?nor do they care?
You are correct regarding the common denominators between Christianity and Islam?.as both essentially share the same scriptures?Islam?s text primarily being a collection of Jewish and Christian scriptures that have been translated into Arabic?
The differences, of course, come from the interpretation/translation-effect of the scriptures?
My research, when complete, will map-out the entire Koran and show irrefutably where the Koranic concepts truly emanate from.
You can look at the Koran as basically Biblical bookends.
The bulk of the Koranic material comes from the Book of Genesis & the Book of Revelation?.with a healthy smattering of material in between.
However, 99% of Koranic material is indeed borrowed from the Holy Bible.
Hence, no one should be surprised to see Jesus proclaimed as God Almighty in both the Holy Bible as well as its imitator, the Koran?
Take care?
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May peace be upon you, Apple Pie,
I can honestly say it is encouraging to hear that your motives stem from the example of Jesus. I guess the point that I did not articulate well-enough was that no matter how much proof you feel you may have compiled, the alternative that you're offering is not enticing to anyone who sees God as One, and Jesus as strictly a messenger.
This is the crux of the matter. The concept of trinity does not work except for those who've been indocrinated into believing in a trinity. There is no logical progression that leads one to think God needs a trilateral approach. Without Biblical influence, this conclusion is impossible.
You say it would be easier to bring an atheist into the fold than a Muslim. I strongly disagree, as an atheist would be more likely to accept one God, then he/she would one God manifested as three.
But that is neither here nor there. What is of utmost relevance is the fact that all your efforts have done nothing but create further discord. There was no Christian-bashing here before you came along. In fact, it was quite the opposite.
My advice, and I mean this earnestly, is to just post the research and let people draw their own conclusions. You lose favor and credibility when every post has the same ending. It announces your agenda and bores the reader. It comes off, at best, as biased research, and at worst, as proselytizing/Islam-bashing.
But that's just my opinion.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
my goal is to turn Islam on its ear
Good luck with that...
As far as bringing souls to faith in the true Creator God of the Universe, as described within the pages of the Holy Bible, it is perhaps easier to bring an atheist into the fold than it is to bring a practicing Muslim.
Let's review this comment of yours two times. First, I placed bold emphasis on the most ridiculous part of this statement. It is a known fact that the Bible has bullet holes all throughout it. There are thousands of contradictions, lies, errors and inaccuracies all throughout that thing...many of which have been brought to your attention, but you dare not touch. Before inviting people to your book and claiming it to be holy, you need to find a way to work past those issues first.
I have a second comment for your statement....
As far as bringing souls to faith in the true Creator God of the Universe, as described within the pages of the Holy Bible, it is perhaps easier to bring an atheist into the fold than it is to bring a practicing Muslim.
The only people who will come to your path are the same type of people who will adopt the path of traditional Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like....Those who have the heart of idolatry and wish not practice the way of True Monotheism.
Few people, of any faith, truly understand what the truth isnor do they care
Yes, and this is true. However, I hope you understand that you are to be placed at number one on that list. It's very easy to place others under a microscope, but you obviously cannot focus the same lense on yourself. Truly sad.
You are correct regarding the common denominators between Christianity and Islam.as both essentially share the same scripturesIslams text primarily being a collection of Jewish and Christian scriptures that have been translated into Arabic
The common denominators stem from the fact that there is only ONE GOD!! What we call The Bible today is no longer what was revealed nor intended by He who revealed the original Scriptures.
The differences, of course, come from the interpretation/translation-effect of the scriptures
Wrong again. The differences come from the fact that The Quran is totally free of any contradictions whereas contradiction is the forte of The Bible. The Bible and The Quran have been placed under heavy Textual, Literary and Anthropological scrutiny and criticism. After all that has been uncovered and revealed, the only thing that you can do is to continue to deny that the Quran is, in fact, GOD's revealed message which is actually a matter of belief and faith. Unfortunately for you, there are even Christian Scholars who now acknowledge that The Bible is the word of man and is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.
However, 99% of Koranic material is indeed borrowed from the Holy Bible.
It's funny that the book which has done the borrowing has remained in tact as is for thousands of years, while the book that has been borrowed from has been reduced to a pornography book and full of errors and contradictions. Way to go ApplePie.....
Hence, no one should be surprised to see Jesus proclaimed as God Almighty in both the Holy Bible as well as its imitator, the Koran
Crooked indeed. My friend, there is not one, single verse that even remotely supports this statement. My gosh.... roll
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Greetings Tay,
Thanks for sharing your comments?
Your reply revolves around a distain for the Biblical concept of a Uniplural Creator entity that transcends time itself.
Ironically, the Islamic bias that surrounds the Biblical concept of the Trinity is entirely fabricated out of misunderstanding of the Muslim book of faith.
Few Muslims care to comprehend that the Biblical material, from whence the authors of their Koran complied their opus, is also to be found in the Koran?up to and including the Triune nature of the true Biblical Creator God of the Universe.
The Koran copies-over the Biblical fact that God is indeed ONE.
The Koran also copies over the triune elements of the ONE God.
It is a shame that too many Muslims are bent on following Islam instead of their book of faith?
Take care?
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Greetings Damon,
Thanks for sharing your comments?
ApplePie wrote
As far as bringing souls to faith in the true Creator God of the Universe, as described within the pages of the Holy Bible, it is perhaps easier to bring an atheist into the fold than it is to bring a practicing Muslim.Let's review this comment of yours two times. First, I placed bold emphasis on the most ridiculous part of this statement. It is a known fact that the Bible has bullet holes all throughout it. There are thousands of contradictions, lies, errors and inaccuracies all throughout that thing...many of which have been brought to your attention, but you dare not touch. Before inviting people to your book and claiming it to be holy, you need to find a way to work past those issues first.
Then what does that make the Koran which is 99% Biblical material?..?
ApplePie wrote
You are correct regarding the common denominators between Christianity and Islam?.as both essentially share the same scriptures?Islam?s text primarily being a collection of Jewish and Christian scriptures that have been translated into Arabic?The common denominators stem from the fact that there is only ONE GOD!! What we call The Bible today is no longer what was revealed nor intended by He who revealed the original Scriptures.
Then please provide us with extant manuscript evidence for your position.
You can start by taking a gander at Islamic awareness? wink
ApplePie wrote
However, 99% of Koranic material is indeed borrowed from the Holy Bible.It's funny that the book which has done the borrowing has remained in tact as is for thousands of years, while the book that has been borrowed from has been reduced to a pornography book and full of errors and contradictions. Way to go ApplePie.....
Again?go to your favorite Islamic site?.and show us the oldest extant Koran?..
We await your reply.
ApplePie wrote
Hence, no one should be surprised to see Jesus proclaimed as God Almighty in both the Holy Bible as well as its imitator, the Koran?Crooked indeed. My friend, there is not one, single verse that even remotely supports this statement. My gosh....
Not one, but legions?.
Sura 86 is entirely regarding Jesus.
It tells us the following
- Jesus is worshiped as God
- Jesus was crucified
- Jesus was resurrected
- Jesus judges the dead
What more could you ask for?..all nice and neat in one 17 ayah sura?
Thanks?
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Greetings to you ApplePie,
Ironically, the Islamic bias that surrounds the Biblical concept of the Trinity is entirely fabricated out of misunderstanding of the Muslim book of faith.
Few Muslims care to comprehend that the Biblical material, from whence the authors of their Koran complied their opus, is also to be found in the Koranup to and including the Triune nature of the true Biblical Creator God of the Universe.
The Koran copies-over the Biblical fact that God is indeed ONE.
The Koran also copies over the triune elements of the ONE God.
It is a shame that too many Muslims are bent on following Islam instead of their book of faith
I personally like to think of myself as a fair, open-minded individual. I hear what you're saying. Here's what I ask of you....
Can you provide me with a couple of passages from The Quran and give me your views as to why you believe these passages point to a Tri-une element of The One GOD? What I will do is look at these passages myself and try to view them from your perspective.
If it's there, it's there. If it's not there, then it's not there. No big deal. But I do know that there are still many questions (by many people) regarding GOD using the plural term WE for Himself.
Of course, if you are willing to provide these passages, I cannot immediately get back to you because I will have to take the time to seriously and un-biasly examine them.
I think I know what you're getting at, but it is my goal to see if that picture emerges or if it makes any sense at all based on The Quran Alone.
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Greetings ApplePie,
Let's review this comment of yours two times. First, I placed bold emphasis on the most ridiculous part of this statement. It is a known fact that the Bible has bullet holes all throughout it. There are thousands of contradictions, lies, errors and inaccuracies all throughout that thing...many of which have been brought to your attention, but you dare not touch. Before inviting people to your book and claiming it to be holy, you need to find a way to work past those issues first.
Then what does that make the Koran which is 99% Biblical material..?
You're ignoring the point. It is a worldwide known fact The Quran is totally free of contradiction and discrepency while The Bible is riddled with them. You asking the question above does nothing to dispute this fact.
Then please provide us with extant manuscript evidence for your position.
You have access to the exact same extant manuscript evidence as I do. It is not something within my reach exclusively. This way, you can acknowledge or yoursel what I said here and you cannot claim is something that I manipulated or that you have no way of verifying for yourself (because I know that you will pull that stunt).
My friend, there is not one, single verse that even remotely supports this statement. My gosh....
Not one, but legions.
Sura 86 is entirely regarding Jesus.
It tells us the following
- Jesus is worshiped as God
- Jesus was crucified
- Jesus was resurrected
- Jesus judges the dead
What more could you ask for..all nice and neat in one 17 ayah sura
ApplePie, dishonesty is a very stinky perfume. The entire Sura 86 is a small summary of the life journey beginning with it's clot existence all the way to the day of resurrection. This Sura has nothing to do With Jesus whatsoever.
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Greetings Damon,
Thanks for your replies?
I personally like to think of myself as a fair, open-minded individual. I hear what you're saying. Here's what I ask of you....
Can you provide me with a couple of passages from The Quran and give me your views as to why you believe these passages point to a Tri-une element of The One GOD? What I will do is look at these passages myself and try to view them from your perspective.
If it's there, it's there. If it's not there, then it's not there. No big deal. But I do know that there are still many questions (by many people) regarding GOD using the plural term WE for Himself.
Of course, if you are willing to provide these passages, I cannot immediately get back to you because I will have to take the time to seriously and un-biasly examine them.
I think I know what you're getting at, but it is my goal to see if that picture emerges or if it makes any sense at all based on The Quran Alone.
Done?
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44123#44123
ApplePie wrote
Then please provide us with extant manuscript evidence for your position.You have access to the exact same extant manuscript evidence as I do. It is not something within my reach exclusively. This way, you can acknowledge or yoursel what I said here and you cannot claim is something that I manipulated or that you have no way of verifying for yourself (because I know that you will pull that stunt).
You sound reluctant to look for yourself?
ApplePie, dishonesty is a very stinky perfume. The entire Sura 86 is a small summary of the life journey beginning with it's clot existence all the way to the day of resurrection. This Sura has nothing to do With Jesus whatsoever.
Digest this?
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28737#28737
Thanks?
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So if God is one, then Jesus is not God. Also the Holy Spirit is not God.
Explain?
Is it so hard? One does not equal three. Jesus is not God. He's a man. A man can't be God.
Only Christians accept this illogical doctrine. Muslims and Jews can do the maths better 1 3.
Besides, I thought the premise that made the Christian concept of Jesus as God is that Jesus comes as a saviour to redeem humankind's sins? This is something we don't believe in. We don't believe in the doctrine of original sin. We don't believe in the fall of humankind. We don't carry the sins of our ancestors. We believe that Adam has been forgiven. Therefore, we don't need a saviour. Ergo, the crucifixion and death of Jesus is not important to us.
And if the Qur'an parrots Biblical material ,
Perhaps this is because I am the only one who bothers to study your book of faith in the classic Arabic in which it was penned?
Straw man. We're not Christians who rarely read their bible in the original language. Most of us here can and do read the Qur'an in its original laguage, classical Arabic. Some are native speakers. I'd take their word better than yours.
then the Bible would also be teaching strict monotheism, not trinitarianism.
Back to the audience seat.
Ironically?.the authors of the Koran get the ONE God concept from the Holy Bible.
This is quite a new status for the god allah, as this fictitious entity has its roots in pagan Arab god worship?
The authors of the Koran have simply attempted to wrap the pagan Arab god allah with the Biblical deity ascribed unto Jesus, from centuries prior.
They even copied-over the Biblical concept of the ONE God as a triune entity?
If this is true, then why did the Qur'an managed to assert that trinity is blasphemy? Surely if it only want to parrot the bible, it would endorse trinity. But no, we read the Qur'an and it said the concept of trinity is blasphemy.
So your choices are
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If the Qur'an parrots the bible , then the bible does not endorse the concept of trinity.
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But if the bible endorse the concept of trinity , the the Qur'an do not parrot the bible.
ps Allah is not a name. It is Arabic for 'God'. Ask Arab Christians, they use 'Allah' when they talk of 'God' in their native language. Ask Indonesian Christians, they use 'Tuhan Allah' which is a direct translation of 'Lord God'.
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