WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN
-
Salaams JM,
you said
"Yes, of course, because, according to me, the jinns are the chiefs among the humans.
Remember Iblis is no more than a symbolic force"Do you believe that Jinns are Humans?but Iblis is not?
Gods Blessings.
Yes, indeed.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41918&highlight=#41918peace
-
Salaams JM,
Correct me if i am wrong.
But you are saying that iblis argued and disobeyed Allah although its a force .
Can this force reason if yes isn't it something alive?And whats the point of putting a force into hell - if it is not living /feeling e.t.c
Sorry if you have answered these before-as i havn't come accross any of these Q?
God is Great/and i don't reckon he will put things into hell uselessly.
-
Salaams JM,
Correct me if i am wrong.
But you are saying that iblis argued and disobeyed Allah although its a force .
Can this force reason if yes isn't it something alive?No, Iblis cannot reason. It has no free will. It just fullfills its function.
And whats the point of putting a force into hell - if it is not living /feeling e.t.c
In the verses recounting the creation of Adam, Iblis is personalized, so, it is not illogic to say he will go to hell.
But, the important point is that people who follow Iblis will go to hell.
. As for those of them who follow you, I will fill Hell with you all!
For My servants, you shall have no authority over them, except those who are misled and follow you. And Hell, for all of those, shall be the appointed place.
That I will fill Hell with you and all those who follow you.To follow Iblis/shaytan = to follow one's pride, selfishness, to let oneself influence by misguiding people.
What is important is to understand the symbolic character of these verses, and to recognize what is rhetoric in them.
Peace
-
Salaams JM,
you said" That I will fill Hell with you"
fill hell with iblis? what for when he doesn't feel he is not alive,is he?
If you make a toy but the toy cuts you by chance , so you will punish it by throwing it into the fire or something,will you?even though it can't feel ,its not living.
But no doubt we can in the end believe what we want even though if it is reality or not.
God Bless.
-
Salaams JM,
you said" That I will fill Hell with you"
fill hell with iblis? what for when he doesn't feel he is not alive,is he?
If you make a toy but the toy cuts you by chance , so you will punish it by throwing it into the fire or something,will you?even though it can't feel ,its not living.
But no doubt we can in the end believe what we want even though if it is reality or not.
God Bless.
There is a lot of symbolism in the quran.
Those who consume the money of the orphans illicitly, in fact they are consuming fire in their bellies, and they will endure the Blaze.
Do you think that these people are really eating fire ?
Personally, I don't.And understanding these symbols is not always an easy task, for people like us who are used to looking at the concrete/scientific aspect of things.
Peace
-
Salaams JM,
You said
Those who consume the money of the orphans illicitly, in fact they are consuming fire in their bellies, and they will endure the Blaze.?Do you think that these people are really eating fire?
Personally, I don't.?Do people think The God sent a book with symbols rather then a straight forward understandable writing, who would do this, would you do that if you were the God?
Certainly not me.
The best I could do ? using lanes. But please remember a word has a number of different meanings depending on the context its to be used in ,especially when we are translating or something,-I would say.
410
Indeed those who do away with wealth (of) orphans wrongfully only do away with in their concealment, (of) evil, and they will soon be burnt (in) blazing Fire.The quran doesn?t use symbolism ? I think, but is a lot of mistranslation and people take it as symbolism.
But you take it as you like.
God Bless.
-
PEACE, /JM/,
I'll revisit Iblis in just a little bit, but first
PRIEST BOKMEI Let me ask you another question, can the Jinn be perceived by human beings? By perceived, I mean experienced through one or all of the five senses. If they cannot be experienced through the senses, then how are men influenced by them/how are they detected?
Yes, of course, because, according to me, the jinns are the chiefs among the humans
.So, while you believe, as I do that, the Jinns are homo sapien sapiens, you disagree that Iblis, himself, is a homo sapien sapien...is this your position?
What ayat(s) proves this to you that the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens/human beingd? For me, it is the following ayats
6130 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you Messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith.
6130 Ya maAAshara aljinni walinsi alam yatikum rusulun minkum yaqussoona AAalaykum ayatee wayunthiroonakum liqaa yawmikum hatha qaloo shahidna AAala anfusina wagharrathumu alhayatu addunya washahidoo AAala anfusihim annahum kanoo kafireen
12109 Nor did We send before thee Messengers any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?
12109 Wama arsalna min qablika illa rijalan noohee ilayhim min ahli alqura afalam yaseeroo fee alardi fayanthuroo kayfa kana AAaqibatu allatheena min qablihim waladaru alakhirati khayrun lillatheena ittaqaw afala taAAqiloon
1643 And before thee also the Mesengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
1643 Wama arsalna min qablika illa rijalan noohee ilayhim fasaloo ahla aththikri in kuntum la taAAlamoon
217 Before thee, also, the Messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
217 Wama arsalna qablaka illa rijalan noohee ilayhim fasaloo ahla aththikri in kuntum la taAAlamoon
726 'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.
72 Waannahu kana rijalun mina alinsi yaAAoothoona birijalin mina aljinni fazadoohum rahaqa.
From my investigation, everywhere rijalun was used, in addition to the above ayats, pertained to homo sapien sapien/human being. Given this, why then would rijalun not mean a human being in 726 when referring to the Jinn?
-
SALAAMUN, SHUAIB,
i agree with what you said, but what would you say to someone who (in regards to your argument about rijal), said "Well jinn can take the shape of humans."
I would have to say the following
- Or have they taken for worship (other) gods besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.
Convincing proof would have to be an ayat saying Jinn can assume the human form.
Main Entry AYAT evidence proof.
I don't know of any such ayat.
-
PEACE, /JM/,
Yes, of course, because, according to me, the jinns are the chiefs among the humans
.So, while you believe, as I do that, the Jinns are homo sapien sapiens, you disagree that Iblis, himself, is a homo sapien sapien...is this your position?
Yes !
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34793&highlight=#34103
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41918&highlight=#41918What ayat(s) proves this to you that the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens/human beingd?
Please have a look at the following posts
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34789&highlight=#34789
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34793&highlight=#34793Peace
-
PEACE, /JM/,
PRIEST So, while you believe, as I do that, the Jinns are homo sapien sapiens, you disagree that Iblis, himself, is a homo sapien sapien...is this your position?
Yes !
Well, at least we agree the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens. I read your links and thanks much, but, would you mind just summarizing on this thread, by way of Ayats, your understanding of why the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens? Thanks again.
Peace.