Salat according to G A Parwez

unknownuser

This is also mentioned in particular about Rasool-Allah (peace be upon him) himself saying, "Allah and all the heavenly forces help and encourage him in the fulfilment of the Divine program. So, O Jama'at-ul-Momineen, you should also help your Rasool (peace be upon him), by following him and submitting before him." (33/56)

God asking us to submit before Muhammad? Can you clarify this?

Regards,

wildguest1956

This is also mentioned in particular about Rasool-Allah (peace be upon him) himself saying, "Allah and all the heavenly forces help and encourage him in the fulfilment of the Divine program. So, O Jama'at-ul-Momineen, you should also help your Rasool (peace be upon him), by following him and submitting before him." (33/56)

God asking us to submit before Muhammad? Can you clarify this?

Regards,

Here is how Parwez explains

(These laws are framed to make your society a model for the humanity. As has been said before, by virtue of obeying these laws you will receive all the help from the Divine System and the heavenly forces ~ 3343.) This very help and support is also available to the central authority of your system, the Nabi.
However, this does not mean that you need not do anything because Allah the Almighty and His heavenly forces are out to help and support him. No! It is of prime importance that you become a continuous source of strength for him and his mission; by providing your support and taking his mission to its accomplishment. There is only one way to achieve this; and that is to show, from the core of your heart, complete obedience to him. (465; 7157; 3343)
On the contrary, those who hurt or weaken Allah and His Rasool (that is the Divine System), will be deprived of all pleasant things in this life as well as in the hereafter. And they will face a humiliating torment.

http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_033.htm

unknownuser

Here is how Parwez explains
56. (These laws are framed to make your society a model for the humanity. As has been said before, by virtue of obeying these laws you will receive all the help from the Divine System and the heavenly forces ~ 3343.) This very help and support is also available to the central authority of your system, the Nabi.
However, this does not mean that you need not do anything because Allah the Almighty and His heavenly forces are out to help and support him. No! It is of prime importance that you become a continuous source of strength for him and his mission; by providing your support and taking his mission to its accomplishment. There is only one way to achieve this; and that is to show, from the core of your heart, complete obedience to him. (465; 7157; 3343)

So what you are saing that God is asking us to be completely obedient to Muhammad and not God?

On the contrary, those who hurt or weaken Allah and His Rasool (that is the Divine System), will be deprived of all pleasant things in this life as well as in the hereafter. And they will face a humiliating torment.

Do we you think we are capable of weaking Allah?

Regards,

wildguest1956

Here is how Parwez explains
56. (These laws are framed to make your society a model for the humanity. As has been said before, by virtue of obeying these laws you will receive all the help from the Divine System and the heavenly forces ~ 3343.) This very help and support is also available to the central authority of your system, the Nabi.
However, this does not mean that you need not do anything because Allah the Almighty and His heavenly forces are out to help and support him. No! It is of prime importance that you become a continuous source of strength for him and his mission; by providing your support and taking his mission to its accomplishment. There is only one way to achieve this; and that is to show, from the core of your heart, complete obedience to him. (465; 7157; 3343)

So what you are saing that God is asking us to be completely obedient to Muhammad and not God?

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

On the contrary, those who hurt or weaken Allah and His Rasool (that is the Divine System), will be deprived of all pleasant things in this life as well as in the hereafter. And they will face a humiliating torment.

Do we you think we are capable of weaking Allah?

Regards,

No.
In that verse, to weaken/harm God and his messenger means to weaken/harm the divine system.

Peace

unknownuser

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

This can be construed as Idolatory?
And Muhammad is now dead. How do you obey dead man?

Regards,

wildguest1956

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

This can be construed as Idolatory?

No.

And Muhammad is now dead. How do you obey dead man?

Regards,

Good question !
My opinion is that the best way to obey him is to reason the same way he did ; i.e to follow the quran.
(cf , )

Peace

unknownuser

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

This can be construed as Idolatory?

No.

You say "To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God". Obeying another human being instead of God is Idolatory.

And Muhammad is now dead. How do you obey dead man?

Good question !
My opinion is that the best way to obey him is to reason the same way he did ; i.e to follow the quran.
(cf , )
Peace

But I don't want to obey a dead man. I would rather obey God if I can. If Muhammad is dead then to obey Muhammand is irrelvant! It does not apply...

Regards,

wildguest1956

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

This can be construed as Idolatory?

No.

You say "To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God". Obeying another human being instead of God is Idolatory.

What do you do of the following verses

No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will yield completely.

Those who follow the Gentile messenger prophet whom they find written for them in the Torah and the Injeel; he orders them to goodness, and deters them from evil, and he makes lawful for them the good things, and he forbids for them the evil, and he removes their burden and the shackles that are upon them. So those who believe in him, and honour him, and support him, and follow the light that was sent down with him; these are the successful.

To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God because Muhammad did obey God.

Peace

unknownuser

To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God because Muhammad did obey God.
Peace

Whether Muhammad obeyed God is not the issue here. How does obeying mere mortal like Muhammad is obeying God? Why make obeying Muhammad akin to obeying God. This is idolatory. When not obey God alone?

Regards,

wildguest1956

To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God because Muhammad did obey God.
Peace

Whether Muhammad obeyed God is not the issue here. How does obeying mere mortal like Muhammad is obeying God? Why make obeying Muhammad akin to obeying God. This is idolatory. When not obey God alone?

Regards,

What do you do of verses and ?
And of verses like
obey God and the messenger so that you may obtain mercy.

Is God promoting idolatry ?

Peace

Idris

peace be upon you all,

just to offer some thoughts, obey the messenger refers to obeying whoever delivers the message or it can be taken as "obey the message", for example I send to you a telegram through the mailman telling you to do something, you do it, you're obeying me but likewise obeying the one who conveyed it to you, anyways this is actually the main crucial point of debate between "sunnis" and "quran aloners"

p.s.- we are likewise told to obey the "authority amongst us" and our parents as long as they do not tell you to do something that will make you disobey The God, basically what I'm trying to say is obediance is only idolatry when you are taking orders that will make you trangress The God (that is shirk or partnership)

unknownuser

To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God because Muhammad did obey God.
Peace

Whether Muhammad obeyed God is not the issue here. How does obeying mere mortal like Muhammad is obeying God? Why make obeying Muhammad akin to obeying God. This is idolatory. When not obey God alone?

Regards,

What do you do of verses and ?
And of verses like
obey God and the messenger so that you may obtain mercy.

Is God promoting idolatry ?

Peace

Perhaps those verses do not apply to us because Muhammad is dead?
Muhammad death made those verses redundant?

Regards,

Idris

peace be upon you lotetree,

I suggest to read this article too regarding obey the messenger

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/conflict.htm

Someone

Peace all,

Surely one can still obey the messenger by only following the scripture. One has to submit to the commands begining with "9ul" or "say", as they are commands from the god to the messenger to "tell" some informations to the audience.

So for the messenger to be dead or alive is of little importance to the message itself, as long as we have the scripture.

--

yfn123

Greetings,

So what you are saing that God is asking us to be completely obedient to Muhammad and not God?

No.
To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God.

Please don't change what the quran says. God could have easily said so viz. "To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God" if that was God's desire. I think it is wickedness to change the words and promotion of idolatry.

Anwar Azim