Self-Defence and Pre-emptive Strike discouraged in Koran?

Fahad1

salam everyone .
i have this question . does the koran discourage self-defence or pre emptive strike ? see this ayah

527
Recite to them in all truth the story of Adam's two
sons How each offered a sacrifice, and how the
offering of one was accepted while that of the other
was not. The latter said "I will kill you." The former
replied "Allah only accepts the sacrifice from the
righteous.

528
Even if you stretch your hand to kill me, I shall not
stretch my hand to slay you, for I fear Allah, the Rabb
of the worlds.

what do u ppl think ?

WHAT IF someone is pointing a gun at me , saying "i will kill u" , what do i do ? do i take my gun out and kill him before he kills me or should i fear Allah (like in 528 ) and let him kill me ?
WHAT IF someone threatens to kill me and my family . what do i do ? wait for him draw first blood or wipe us out or should i kill him before he kills me .
in the same way , what if it happens on a larger scale ? like if one country is threatened by another , what should it do ?

please tell me your opinions about this .
salam.

zenje

Salaam Saladin,

Interesting question. I remember talking to someone else who believed that war was not allowed in Islam even in self defense. Personaly, I find that a little hard to grasp. Maybe it's just the way I understand some things. A pre-emptive strike, on the other hand is something I would not condone, no matter what the circumstance. But that's just my opinion.

If someone takes out a gun to kill me, I'll probably crap my pants, before I can think of finding a gun to kill him.
If someone threatens my family, I will try to take measures to protect ourselves or move to a different place. But killing them before they touch us, is not an option.
Same with countries, IMO, self defense, yes, helping out a neighbour defend themselves from injustice yes, but not the other way round.

Thats all I have for now, when I get some verses to back my stance, I'll get back to you.

kzd

salam everyone .
i have this question . does the koran discourage self-defence or pre emptive strike ? see this ayah

527
Recite to them in all truth the story of Adam's two
sons How each offered a sacrifice, and how the
offering of one was accepted while that of the other
was not. The latter said "I will kill you." The former
replied "Allah only accepts the sacrifice from the
righteous.

528
Even if you stretch your hand to kill me, I shall not
stretch my hand to slay you, for I fear Allah, the Rabb
of the worlds.

what do u ppl think ?

WHAT IF someone is pointing a gun at me , saying "i will kill u" , what do i do ? do i take my gun out and kill him before he kills me or should i fear Allah (like in 528 ) and let him kill me ?
WHAT IF someone threatens to kill me and my family . what do i do ? wait for him draw first blood or wipe us out or should i kill him before he kills me .
in the same way , what if it happens on a larger scale ? like if one country is threatened by another , what should it do ?

please tell me your opinions about this .
salam.

Salam,
In my opinioin, once again the Quran is crystal clear, praise God. You were not present there to see what was going on with the two children of Adam. Neither were you in their place. This is the faithful reporting of two people and what they said, an idol-worshiper and one who submitted to God alone, in which there are valuable lessons for us. This is not to issue Fatwa's on what each should do by generalizing some imagined condition(not that you were going there.) As usual all you have to do is read the Quran without fear and without worship of idols to see what the lessons are,

527 Recite for them the true history of Adam's two sons. They made an offering, and it was accepted from one of them, but not from the other. He said, "I will surely kill you." He said, "GOD accepts only from the righteous.

His ego provoked him into killing his brother. He killed him, and ended up with the losers.

532 Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. Our messengers went to them with clear proofs and revelations, but most of them, after all this, are still transgressing.

On the specific issue the Quran adresses it as follows,

860 You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.

861 If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

862 If they want to deceive you, then GOD will suffice you. He will help you with His support, and with the believers.

Self defense is a duty. So is preparation, preparation as an deterant too. Pre-emption is not ok. I will leave at that.

Peace.

zenje

And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers.
And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Warfare has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

My take is as follows, Adam represents mankind. Adams "two sons" represent the right ideas/thoughts and wrong ideas/thoughts.

Correct ideas/thoughts are associated with the righteous, the knowledgable. They are the ones who sacrifice the "animals within", the emotions which ANIMATE us. They Sacrifice greed,lust, anger, fear, etc for the God. This is accepted.

Those on the wrong path must therefore choose the opposite, the sacrifice PEACE, and that is not acceptable to the God.

So the misguided "son" states

528
Even if you stretch your hand to kill me, I shall not
stretch my hand to slay you, for I fear Allah, the Rabb
of the worlds.

We must remember we are not talking about physical men , it is a metaphor for peace versus emotion, Peace cannot attack.

regarding physical self defense, we are told elsewhere that we can and must defend ourselves. So to answer the questions

WHAT IF someone is pointing a gun at me , saying "i will kill u" , what do i do ? do i take my gun out and kill him before he kills me or should i fear Allah (like in 528 ) and let him kill me ?

You can try to reason with the person or you can kill them. Our focus is on the WHOLE. Its like a cancer cell that is going after other cells, we eliminate that cell becuase it is a danger to the whole and will not listen to reason and will not cease to be AGGRESIVE.

WHAT IF someone threatens to kill me and my family . what do i do ? wait for him draw first blood or wipe us out or should i kill him before he kills me .

You can call the authorities, you can move locations, or when they do aggresively come after you , you can kill them. The God does not love the aggressors.

in the same way , what if it happens on a larger scale ? like if one country is threatened by another , what should it do ?

Same situation, try to reason with them. But I find it difficult to see how a whole contry can be against a whole other country. For example, all people in Iraq don't hate americans and vice versa. So dont fall into the deceptive divisions. if you do, it would have you dropping bombs on innocent people along with aggressive terrorists. So again, we want to try tro reason with both sides in this particular example.

jonny_k

Salam Saladin,

salam everyone .
i have this question . does the koran discourage self-defence or pre emptive strike ? see this ayah

527
Recite to them in all truth the story of Adam's two
sons How each offered a sacrifice, and how the
offering of one was accepted while that of the other
was not. The latter said "I will kill you." The former
replied "Allah only accepts the sacrifice from the
righteous.

528
Even if you stretch your hand to kill me, I shall not
stretch my hand to slay you, for I fear Allah, the Rabb
of the worlds.

what do u ppl think ?

WHAT IF someone is pointing a gun at me , saying "i will kill u" , what do i do ? do i take my gun out and kill him before he kills me or should i fear Allah (like in 528 ) and let him kill me ?
WHAT IF someone threatens to kill me and my family . what do i do ? wait for him draw first blood or wipe us out or should i kill him before he kills me .
in the same way , what if it happens on a larger scale ? like if one country is threatened by another , what should it do ?

please tell me your opinions about this .
salam.

Khi- Once again here i must say tht IT IS THE INTENTION WHICH IS IMPORTANT 2 GOD N NOT THE ACTION ITSELF WHICH IS PART OF GOD'S PLAN ANYWAY. So if a person tries 2 kill u n gets killed by u as a reflex action of urs without u PRE-intending 2 kill him thts fine. But if he wants 2 kill u n u in ur mind say 2 urself 'ill show him n kill him 1st' by which u indicate pride n arrogance thereby forgetting tht life n death is al within GOD's control then ur doing wrong. I hope u understood this very important pt. As regards 2 war tht is a totally different case n there r a lot of Quranic verses which clearly command 2 fight the enemy in such conditions. The above is a situation of two individuals or civilians whereas war is done by the army which is a disciplined n controlled unit. The verses u quoted above do NOT relate 2 war under any circumstances. A nation cannot be civilized if ppl take upon self justice. The case in case of civils has 2 appear be4 court so intentinal killing even if the other strikes 1st is unacceptable 2 GOD, imo. GOD Bless!

Fahad1

PEACE EVERYONE and thank u for your replies .

Khi- Once again here i must say tht IT IS THE INTENTION WHICH IS IMPORTANT 2 GOD N NOT THE ACTION ITSELF WHICH IS PART OF GOD'S PLAN ANYWAY. So if a person tries 2 kill u n gets killed by u as a reflex action of urs without u PRE-intending 2 kill him thts fine. But if he wants 2 kill u n u in ur mind say 2 urself 'ill show him n kill him 1st' by which u indicate pride n arrogance thereby forgetting tht life n death is al within GOD's control then ur doing wrong.

hi khizar , both conditions u told above are the same except that i dont understand how one can be killed as a result of reflex action with out pre-intending to kill . then in both conditions we are forgetting God ?

I hope u understood this very important pt. As regards 2 war tht is a totally different case n there r a lot of Quranic verses which clearly command 2 fight the enemy in such conditions. The above is a situation of two individuals or civilians whereas war is done by the army which is a disciplined n controlled unit. The verses u quoted above do NOT relate 2 war under any circumstances. A nation cannot be civilized if ppl take upon self justice. The case in case of civils has 2 appear be4 court so intentinal killing even if the other strikes 1st is unacceptable 2 GOD, imo. GOD Bless!

the point was that even in war we are not supposed to strike first ? specially nowadays in an era of nuclear bombs . what if we fear the enemy will strike first . acc. to 528 God fearing people will not strike first .