Ramadan 2005
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From Shakir's translation...
say Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent Allah, so I shall not speak to any man today.
How can he be telling some one that "today" I wil not speak to any man. There might be some mistranslation going on there, or is Muhammad contradicting himself under God's order?
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peace be upon you natu,
How can he be telling some one that "today" I wil not speak to any man. There might be some mistranslation going on there, or is Muhammad contradicting himself under God's order?
verify the verse 1926 and you'll see it is an order towards Mary
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Peace.
lmao - Why am I talking about muhammad ?! (130AM and my coffee is wearing off probably... idea )
I believe that the on reason she wasn't talking was so that Jesus himself can do the talking when she met humans. - I don't see this as a part of fasting.
But I still don't understand how someone can say that they won't talk to anybody. I see contradiction in this, or do I need more cofee? roll
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peace be upon you natu,
the problem is that it was telling her to abstain from talking with mankind not talking in general, she said it but wasn't soeaking to any people, not even the one that told her to do it who is not human by the way, so i think your right in the fact that she was only told to abstain from talking with people to let the Word (Isa) speak for her
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Salaams Zenje,
its the trans (look to the context of the verses)
2187
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and enjoy and make (love), until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in submissions. Those are Limits (set by) Allah Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that theyor better still
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3506
I think anyway.
Salaams all.
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Salaam mz,
According to the (fasting) instructions at 2187 we are to stay away from food and drink all day long.
- It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
I'll check out the link a little later. Thanks.
Peace
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Peace
With the other topics, there are opposing ideas like salat being ritual prayer or commitments etc and hajj being debate and nothing to do with physical place. Are there any other ideas about ramadan, this seems to be a sound and clear understanding to me. Has anyone else posted other things about Ramadan? Does anyone disagree with the 'burning moon' concept, if so why?
Nural
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Peace be upon you,
I am following the best understanding I see at this time, which is the 10 days that most on this thread will be following.
I have also been taking classes on Kemetic Philosophy and they hold the Summer Solstice as a great time for meditation and FASTING as well.
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Peace all
I was wondering the same thing as beatnik...why not the Harvest Moon? It has some unusual patterns in most places, since it stays in the night sky longer than other full moons--practically all night long for several nights. It also rises very close to sunset, with changes of rising times of only (I think) about 20-30 minutes per night as compared to close to an hour change in time for other full moons.
Just curious as to whether there's been any discussion about this elsewhere. Thanks.
And I'm fasting 10 days this year.
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Also another thing The sun didnt go down a couple nights ago until 9pm.
shock
10 days doesnt seem so bad now, lol. And yep sytalls, the Harvest Moon is worth pondering I think. Stuff like the info on this page is really interesting.
The Harvest Moon is no ordinary full moon; it behaves in a special way. Throughout the year the Moon rises, on average, about 50 minutes later each day. But near the autumnal equinox, which comes this year on Sept. 23rd, the day-to-day difference in the local time of moonrise is only 30 minutes. The Moon will rise around sunset tonight--and not long after sunset for the next few evenings.
That comes in handy for northern farmers who are working long days to harvest their crops before autumn. The extra dose of lighting afforded by the full Moon closest to the equinox is what gives the Harvest Moon its name. In the southern hemisphere, this week's full Moon behaves in exactly the opposite way there will be an extra long time between moonrises from one evening to the next.
Try looking at the Moon tonight when it's rising in the east. You might notice something funny the low-hanging Moon looks very big. This is a trick of the eye known as the "Moon Illusion."
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Peace Beatnik, Sytalls, all,
Just curious as to whether there's been any discussion about this elsewhere.
Please see
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906&start=25&sid=27420d1f83f33ddf54adc268e70ea148
This is from the above thread
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged.
When one keeps in mind the purpose of the debate, one can see that the time where in general produce and livestock are plentiful is the best time for the debate. The burning/red full-moon takes place between June 21-July 20 or so. The natural time to harvest most crops takes place from mid-July to about mid-October.
On another thread, brother Beatnik mentioned the harvest moon, which occurs after the autumn equinox. This moon is called so because its light gives farmers extra time to work and harvest their crops before the end of the season. At this stage, I think that out of the four restricted full-moons, the first full-moon (the burning/red full-moon) is for abstinence, while the remaining three are for the debate.
Please let me know what you think.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace,
Out of curiosity, aren't these ten days the longest of the year? The sun sets the latest during this time of the year and rises earliest, this will make ramadan something to remember every year!
Fasting during the winter was very easy when I did it but fasting for these ten days is going to be a great experience and valuable GW. I look forward to this.
I remember seeing a special looking moon, not exactly sure which month somewhere between now and september, but it appears in daylight and is large and bright, this is how it appears in the UK. Is this the marker that everyone is waiting for?
Nural
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Peace Ayman,
Never heard, seen or known what is meant by a "burning/red full-moon", please clarify? Have witnessed full-moon, half-moon and crescent-moon but never a burning-moon or a red-moon.
This moon is called so because its light gives farmers extra time to work and harvest their crops before the end of the season.
Do farmers all over the world (or in some parts) actually work and harvest their crops during nights specially in presence of such "burning/red full-moons"?God bless.
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Peace ayman and all
Thanks for the clarification, brother ayman. I see your point about the "debate" being part of a time when food is plentiful and "abstinence" when it is still in the field. And I read your article and Layth's article after posting here earlier today, so I'm still mulling things over.
I keep thinking about the moon rising at the same time the sun sets and the nearly equal number of hours in day and night. Since I live in a farming community, I also think about how busy everyone gets with harvesting certain products--there's a big rush to finish once they start. For the intense period when the crops are being brought in, that would leave little time for anything else. Although not so much around here, farmers do have to worry about the possibility of frost ruining anything that isn't brought in pretty soon after the autumnal equinox. Once they're finished and beat the frost, then there's socializing
For me, if Ramadan is in June, it will be like coming full circle. My very first year as a Muslim (as usual, apologies to those who don't like the term or the label) I fasted this time of year. D So, yes, nural, based on my memory of that time, Ramadan will be memorable, because these are the longest days of the year--for the northern hemisphere, that is. But making through even one day certainly does feel like an accomplishment! The winter "Ramadans" just never seemed like real fasts to me...6 or 7 hours and done...after having my first years of fasting take place in summer.
Danish, the moon is usually a reddish color when it is close to the horizon. That is when it is seen through a filter of the earth's atmosphere. As soon as the moon is high enough in the sky, then the red coloring disappears. And, yes, people do still harvest by the light of this moon, especially if they're expecting an early frost. Although these days, they can set up artificial lighting if needed...depends on the size of the farm.
Cool link, beatnik! cool
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Peace,
I remember an orangey colour, but I do have a slight colour blindness problem, .
Nural
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Hello Sytalls,
Danish, the moon is usually a reddish color when it is close to the horizon. That is when it is seen through a filter of the earth's atmosphere. As soon as the moon is high enough in the sky, then the red coloring disappears.
The moon is never a reddish or orangish in color and neither it is "burning". Even during a clear bright sunny day, notice that the moon, whether full, half or crescent, always appears white. What you call "filter of the earth's atmosphere", appearing to be orangish/reddish in colour, is a reflection of sunlight around the sun's rising and setting junctions(before sunrise and after sunset) and not the entire sky.
And, yes, people do still harvest by the light of this moon, especially if they're expecting an early frost. Although these days, they can set up artificial lighting if needed...depends on the size of the farm.
Size of a farm has nothing to do with moonlight, streetlight or sunlight. Harvesting or picking of crops when ripe, usually start very early mornings and continue throughtout the day, not during nights under the moonlight unless sufficient artificial light source is applied. I have yet to convince myself the "reality" of an orange-moon, a red-moon or a burning-moon, targetted towards Ramadan. -
Hello, Danish. Since I said "when the moon is close to the horizon" wouldn't that imply that I was talking about the appearance of the moon's color at a very specific time of day? D
Although you may have missed this phenomenon, I've seen a big red moon plenty of times in the early evening sky, when its rising time is close to the time the sun is setting.
Here's a lovely photo of a reddish-orange harvest moon
http//img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/QW12345/redharvestmoon.jpg
What you call "filter of the earth's atmosphere", appearing to be orangish/reddish in colour, is a reflection of sunlight around the sun's rising and setting junctions(before sunrise and after sunset) and not the entire sky.
Hmmm...well, all light coming from the moon, regardless of time of day, is merely a reflection of the sun's light, which can only be viewed through the filter of the earth's atmosphere (unless you're traveling in space, that is). The scattering of the light by the filters in our atmosphere determines the color we see at any given time.
The closer the moon is to the horizon, the more the shorter wavelengths in the green and blue end of the spectrum get filtered out by dust particles and other particles in the atmosphere. The longer red/orange wavelengths get through, causing us to see a moon that appears to be a pinkish or reddish or reddish-orange in color. When it is higher in the sky, then we are usually able to see lightwaves from the full spectrum, resulting in the white silvery light of the moon you mentioned.
As for harvesting, the Harvest Moon got its name because people have indeed used its bright light to bring in crops. Unlike large commercial farming operations, a small farm, one used to supply a family with their own food, may not have the resources to get all the crops in before the first frost. A few extra hours of moonlight can be quite handy. And most farmers still plant according to the phases of the moon.
When I was a little girl, the small town where I grew up used to hold festivals about a week after the appearance of the Harvest Moon. There would be nighttime hayrides and a pancake supper and late church services held to give thanks to God for the harvests.
Peace.
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What do you guys think of the connection and long history between the summer solstice and pagan celebrations? Is it disconcerting to you as muslims? Is it another Islamic theme distorted for other motives?
Although I havent made up my find properly for when Ramadan takes place, I do appreciate Ayman's article and am this year doing 10 days from June 21st (I'm in England). I hope to continue to ponder and investigate Ramadan in the future though.
Did the Arabs ever have a summer solstice device? Just randomly surfing the net today. This site has various facts, this site has examples of celebrations in other countries, and this site has examples of devices
The American Indian Sun Dagger. Anasazi Indians of Chaco Canyon, New Mexico constructed a spiral rock carving on Fajada Butte. At noon on the summer solstice, a dagger of sun penetrates the center of the spiral.
Cahokia Mounds in southern Illinois near East St. Louis has a circle of postholes as an astronomical indicator of summer solstice sunrise, winter solstice sunrise, and equinox sunrise. The mound-building dates back about 3000 years.
Big Horn Medicine Wheel in the Big Horn Mountains near Sheriden, Wyoming is an indicator of summer solstice sunrise and sunset, with other alignments for the rising of certain stars (Aldebaran, Rigel, and Sirius). Built about 1050 AD. Has 28 spokes, and is about 90 ft in diameter. About 50 similar circles exist. The oldest is in Canada(built about 2500 BC.
Caracol Tower Located at Chichen Itza, Yucatan, Mexico, the Caracol Tower was built about 1000 AD. It has some solstice and equinox alignments, and also some star alignments.
Aztec ruins Templo Mayor in Tenochtitlan, (Temple of the Moon and Temple of the Sun). Festivals occurred at the equinoxes when the sun shown between the two temples.
Temple at Karnak Egypt Certain alignments correspond to summer solstice sunset and winter solstice sunrise.
Pyramid of Khufu at Giza Shafts from the King's chamber point to Location of Polaris 5000 years ago Former position of Orion's belt The significance of these things is in their mythology. The pyramid is also aligned perfectly N-S and E-W.
Chinese alignments A Chinese tower was built in 1270 AD to measure the sun's shadow. The shadow of the tower was shortest at noon, and the very shortest at the summer solstice. (Markers on the ground locate shadow positions.)