Free will or determinism ?
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Well I havent read the article but will do so ... umm I think its a bit of both ... more towards the free-will side ... Obviously we have free-will then why would Allah bother testing us? I mean whats hte point of a test when we are controlled, do bad deeds and its not even our fault ?? .. so yeah thats my point but i think our career is determined ...hehe like where we'll end up in the future etc ..
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Peace JM,
For starters, let's look at the definition of determinism
de?ter?min?ism (d-t?rm-nzm)
n.The philosophical doctrine that every event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedents, such as genetic and environmental influences, that are independent of the human will.
I don't think the author has established that events/acts/decisions are independent of human will. What he established is that God created will, and thus created the potential of the outcome of the will.
In his example
"The doctor gave me the medicine"
"The medicine cured me"
"The doctor cured me".
What has been left out is the possibility that the medicine did not cure the patient, or that the patient may have had adverse reactions to the medicine and consequently died. In the case of the latter, what if the patient knew of an allergy to the prescribed medicine but did not tell the doctor. Thus, the doctor cannot be held responsible for the patient' death. Further, what if the patient didn't know of the allergy, or the pharmaceutical company did not test properly for allergic reactions, or it did test and put out the medicine anyway? Who's to blame?
We're opening quite a pandora's box with this dialogue. Nonetheless, it is interesting.
My view is, God created the potential of human will, but did not determine the use of the will. In this sense, all possibilites exist becuase of God, but the choices are human. I think this is well reinforced by the ayat the author provided in his essay.
Peace,
Tay -
I do believe in free will, cause if it didn't exist how could we be judged ?
But i also believe that god already knows what our decisions are going to be, because for him, time doesn't exist...still, the decisions are ours.The question tht always pop's up in my mind is Why do we have to go through all this if god already knows our destination ? Only god knows...
Peace,
Elke -
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good answer but still why do we have to be here ??? Whatever reason one may find, there still remains a big WHY... i hope to understand this (among many other things) on judgment day - an yashaa allah i wont be disappointed
Khi- Salam sister. We r here coz we all rebelled against GOD or did something wrong in one way or another just like Adam n Eve were sent down 2 this earth coz of eating from a forbidden tree. This world is our last chance 2 redeem ourselves. GOD Bless!
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Khi- Salam sister. We r here coz we all rebelled against GOD or did something wrong in one way or another just like Adam n Eve were sent down 2 this earth coz of eating from a forbidden tree. This world is our last chance 2 redeem ourselves. GOD Bless!
khizar,
4111
And who acquires/carries a sin/crime , so he carries it on himself, and God was/is wise/judicious.6164
Say "Is other than God I desire as a Lord? And He is Lord of every thing, and every self does not earn/gather except on it, and no sinner/burdener carries/bears (the) load/weight (of) another, then to your Lord (is) your return, so He informs you with what you were in it differing/disagreeing ."5338-39
No sinner/burdener bears/carries another's sin/burden. And that there is nothing to man except what he strived/endeavored. -
Dear JM,
I have skimmed through the article written by Ahmad Shafaat.
He has done a good deal of thinking, but even though he touches some crucial points, he starts out with the assumption that God is a creature.
Through such an assumption God is separated from the Universe and the Universe only contains what God has created.According to the Qur?an, God is ?closer to you than your jugular vein?, and God is aware of any detail that occurs whether it is in the Macro- or Micro-Cosmos. How can that be possible if God is not part of the Universe, maybe not as a creature but as a power?
Determinism exists, definitely, but is it in such a way that everything in the World is following any whim, or change of mind, from a creator, or in such a way that reactions are the determined results of actions?
We may also ask ?Does God actually have a free will??
Or is God the ultimate eternal power that has always worked in the same way, and can never be changed?
The Qur?an mentions also that God never changes. It also repeatedly mentions something like ?if God willed??.?, but seemingly does not do.Mr Shafaat assumes that God is functioning in an accidental manner. If this is so, can we persuade God to change the line of reactions to our actions?
The Qur?an states that this is not so, God does not change anything unless we, ourselves, do.Best regards
Ali Omar
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Hello All,
An Omniscient God does not allow for Free Will. To give humans Free Will God needs to limit His omniscient.
Perhaps definition of Omniscient needs to be changed.
Regards,
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X committed a crime. Did X commit the crime or did God?
X lied. Did X lie or did God?
X raped Y. Did X rape Y or did God?I think trying to portray that human beings have no will to do anything is really perverted. Humans beings must take responsibility for their actions, not just point to God for their misbehaviours.
Anwar Azim
Is not our will, my will, God's will? Did I throw or God, or is there a God besides God?
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Peace,
I believe that time doesn't exist for God, thus I'm saying God knows ALL, that he knows when we screw up.
HOWEVER, an event isn't an event until it has taken place.
Get my drift??
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Peace,
I believe that time doesn't exist for God, thus I'm saying God knows ALL, that he knows when we screw up.That's what Ominiscient means regardless whether time exists for God or not. God knows everything and as result there is no room for Free Will.
Regards,
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khizar,
4111
And who acquires/carries a sin/crime , so he carries it on himself, and God was/is wise/judicious.6164
Say "Is other than God I desire as a Lord? And He is Lord of every thing, and every self does not earn/gather except on it, and no sinner/burdener carries/bears (the) load/weight (of) another, then to your Lord (is) your return, so He informs you with what you were in it differing/disagreeing ."5338-39
No sinner/burdener bears/carries another's sin/burden. And that there is nothing to man except what he strived/endeavored.Khi- Salam. U didnt understand. Adam n Eve r just exampples. We ALL SINNED BY OURSELVES OTHERWISE WE WLDNT BE HERE N YES WE ALL R RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SINS NOT ADAM'S OR EVE'S so no need 2 show those verses 2 me. Thanku. GOD Bless!
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Peace Anwar
X committed a crime. Did X commit the crime or did God?
X lied. Did X lie or did God?
X raped Y. Did X rape Y or did God?If X commited the act and not God then you need to reflect deeper on what this reading means when it asks Is there a God besides God?
I think trying to portray that human beings have no will to do anything is really perverted. Humans beings must take responsibility for their actions, not just point to God for their misbehaviours.
What I was saying is that God just is. Whatever we do is inline with God's will as it is all experience, how does one grow in wisdom if not through experience?
Whatever thoughts we have harboured where did they come from, if not God then who?
When we judge our thoughts as good or bad we limit our thought process, our expansion into a greater reality, when we judge our thoughts we incidentally are judging ourself, when we judge ourself we are judging God.
Who can grant us forgiveness but ourselves?
peace,
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Khi- Salam. U didnt understand. Adam n Eve r just exampples. We ALL SINNED BY OURSELVES OTHERWISE WE WLDNT BE HERE N YES WE ALL R RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SINS NOT ADAM'S OR EVE'S so no need 2 show those verses 2 me. Thanku. GOD Bless!
Oops, my mistake then. Sorry I misunderstood you.
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When you say "here", do you mean Earth? Do you believe that you sinned before being born?
Khi- Salam. Yep i surely believe so otherwise i wldnt be here. GOD Bless!
I retract my comment above. Turns out I didn't misunderstand you. I thought people are born innocent?