Quran Translation

[jankren]

Salam, D

Im just wondering if I could get the list of the changes in the newest version of the English Quran Translation. One of the change that catches my curiosity(I learnt this from another post) is that in Ch 355 the word 'mutawwafika' is translated into 'seize' instead of 'let to die' from previous version ? .

Please anybody explain this for me. I have this feeling that perhaps the translator was retranslating the translation at gunpoint or some threat ) .

[unknownuser]

Salam Jankren,

Salam, D

Im just wondering if I could get the list of the changes in the newest version of the English Quran Translation. One of the change that catches my curiosity(I learnt this from another post) is that in Ch 355 the word 'mutawwafika' is translated into 'seize' instead of 'let to die' from previous version ? .

Please anybody explain this for me. I have this feeling that perhaps the translator was retranslating the translation at gunpoint or some threat ) .

He he he-) your feeling is right-) The dilemma with all these translations we see nowadays is none of the authors has translated the Quran for the sake of translating it but rather they all translated the Quran with an agenda and/or to refute some beliefs of the traditional meanstream or non-muslims. Most of the authors ended up "translating" existing translations-). In the case of verse 355, to say that Jesus "died" would be a problem-) as if "death" does not apply to this prophet-).

Most of people forgot that translations are NOT Quran and will never be Quran but only and only an attempt to interpret the Quran and thus they are all subjective-).

Peace. Myr.

[jankren]

Salam, wink

But for the sake of the promise to present the most 'literal' translation it would be wrong to translate 'mutawwafika' with a word thats influenced by the authors opinion. By the way is the webmaster of Free_minds.org responsible with the translation project? Because I put so much trust in people that are affiliated with this site.

[unknownuser]

Peace

This is a comment that I put together to respond to allegation that Jesus didnlt die yet

Did Jesus die on earth before he was raised to the heavens?

I was surprised to find many Muslims believe that Jesus was raised alive "i.e. he never died", and because Allah knew that this confusion will happen, consequently Allah answered it in the Quran, let's have look at the verse where Allah said to Jesus that He will cause him to die "Natural death" then He will raise Jesus to the heavens

YUSUFALI Behold! Allah said ?O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.?

PICKTHAL (And remember) when Allah said ?O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.?

SHAKIR And when Allah said ?O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.?

RASHAD KHALIFA Thus, GOD said, ?O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.?
{The Quran ; 355}

(55)

-> It is obvious to me that Rashad Khalifa translation to that specific verse was the most accurate one, btw I disagree with most of his stuff quite the contrary

-> What is striking is this, the Arabic verse is clear, Allah said to Jesus "Ini Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak"

-> For Jesus to die on earth was a must for Allah because this is what He said in the Quran, and we know that Allah does not change His words

"Every soul shall have a taste of death in the end to Us shall ye be brought back."
{The Quran ; 2957}

(57)

In fact the same message that every soul must taste death was repeated in another 2 locations, {3185}, and {2135}, so why it is strange to accept what Allah clearly stated in 355 about putting Jesus to death?

The important fact brother is this, I really care less about this concept of Jesus have not died yet then his return, all I care about that the Judgment Day is coming, while to a degree, I may believe in Jesus return, but this has no effect in how I believe in Allah, His prophets, His angels, His books and His Judgment Day. What bothers me though is this, many Muslims think he must return so he dies because he did not die yet.

The key word in hand is ?Motawafika? and it seems they understand it as shown in some English translations as ?takes you back to Himself?, again a total mistranslation to a CLEAR ARABIC WORD within its context that means Death, ?WAFFA?, while I agree it also means ?To Take Back?, but the context of the verses clearly confirms it means its common meaning which is Death

The Quran use of that Arabic word in all other locations meant death, why in 355 they take it as the other very rare meaning?

Let?s look at a few examples from the Clear Arabic Quran

?It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.?

(42)

-> The verse is crystal clear , the same word used ?Yatawafa? to describe both death and sleep, both share a simple fact as described by the verse that Allah removes the SOUL from our bodies when we sleep and when we die, for those who must die the souls will not come back and for the others who still has to live, their souls will return to their bodies. The argument by those Muslims can be even demolished here by using that meaning they prefer which is ?To take back?, i.e. Allah will take back the soul, and consequently because the soul came out of the body, the body must go into a death or a sleep mode.

-> We certainly know that sleeping feels exactly like death and I can expand on this and yet by using the Quran. So for some Muslims to come and tell us that ?Motawafika? does not mean death, they are wrong, at least it will mean that Jesus soul was forced out of his body and he went into a coma or sort of a sleep ?the least?

?If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying) "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-?
{The Quran ; 850}

(50)

-> The word was used above and it meant death.

?Say "O ye men! If ye are in doubt as to my religion, (behold!) I worship not what ye worship, other than Allah! But I worship Allah - Who will take your souls (at death) I am commanded to be (in the ranks) of the Believers,?
{The Quran ; 10104}

(104)

-> Again

?It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much) for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.?
{The Quran ; 1670}

(70)

-> And again

?O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).?
{The Quran ; 225}

(5)

-> What can I say?, well, and again.

?Say ?The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls then shall ye be brought back to your Lord.?"
{The Quran ; 3211}

(11)

-> Further proof that it means Death.

?It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.?
{The Quran ; 4067}

(67)

-> More proofs

From what I presented above, it is clear the that the word ? ? ?YOTWAFA?, can also be read as the word ? ? ?YATWAFA?, which means ? put to death? , it is also clear that sleeping is a type of death created by Allah, so if Allah said to Jesus the He ?Motawafika? in 355, then it simply means the Jesus soul was forced out of his body, before his body was raised to the heaven by the angels or by any other mean.

The sunnis/shitas believe hard that Jesus return is confirmed by at least two verses of Quran which we will look at later, for them this add further proofs that he didn?t die. But as I stated above, I agree that Jesus may return with the will of Allah, but his return does not mean that He was not put to death by Allah as He stated in His Quran ?Motawafika?, and I can?t see any problem for our God to raise Jesus again from the dead and send him back to earth to fulfil Allah words if required, in fact one of the sincere brothers Usama Abdullah ?answering Christianity? logic falls to the ground really hard, His logic that the Quran said in 1140 that all humans must die twice and live twice

?They shall say Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out??
{The Quran ; 4011}

(11)

-> With my respect to this man, I can?t accept his flawed logic that the above verse stated all humans will die twice and live twice, so Jesus did not die otherwise he will be forced to die 3 times, but again, Jesus is a prophet, he is not like us, in fact he was working for us, so he is dealt differently by Allah, The Quran told us that prophet Uzair already died 3 times, he was dead, then Allah brought him to life, then Allah put him to death for 100 years then Allah brought him to life again, then Allah put to death again and we know that Allah will bring to life again on the Judgment day, hence brother Usama logic can not be accepted.

Now bro, let me comment on the two verses they use as a confirmation of Jesus return

"And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them."
{The Quran ; 4159}

(159)

-> The above translation to 4159 provided by the sunni is 100% wrong, they think that the verse means before Jesus dies all the Christians and the Jews must believe in him, I say hold on a minute for that argument let?s finish the first one first the Arabic verse does not mean that Jesus was not put to death by Allah ?Motawafika?, simply Allah can raise Jesus again from the dead any time He wants for whatever number of times He wants then if the above verse means that all the Christians and jews will believe in him at one point of time, still has nothing to do with him being put to death or not.

-> The important point they blindly ignore is this, why not this verse apply at the time Jesus was put to death by Allah according to 355 as I explained earlier?, i.e. there was SOME people of the Book who believed in Jesus, i.e. the verse might be talking about the time in the past just before Jesus was put to death naturally then raised, in fact the Arabic words may mean that NOT ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK WILL BELIEVE IN JESUS ONLY SOME as the Arabic words suggests ? ? i.e. ?Some of the people of the Book NOT ALL?, , it is strange to translate it as ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, you see if ? ??Min? was not there, then yes it will mean all the people of the book, but because ?Min? is there then it means some of them.

-> Now if we consider that the verse is talking about Jesus return, then I see no problem with that, Allah will raise Jesus from the dead again, send him to earth to do an important task, then put Jesus to death again, what is wrong with that?, Allah does what He wants with no restrictions

Well, Allah told us in the Quran that He put prophet Uzair to death for 100 years and He raised him to life again as I explained earlier, same with Abraham, Allah told us that He showed Abraham how He raised the dead, and He told us many times that He will raise us from the dead, in fact He already did as He brought us to life after we never existed ?dead?, everything is possible with Allah

The second verse the Sunni/Shita cults use as a confirmation of Jesus return is the following, please note the translation provided by them

"And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment) therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me this is a Straight Way. "
{The Quran ; 4361}

(61)

->Again this verse does not say much other than a clear obvious fact, that Jesus the prophet sent by Allah was a sign to the Judgment Day , the Arabic word used ? ? is actually more accurate to be translated as ?Knowledge? not ?sign? because ?Sign? means ? ? , while even if I consider it a sign then this sign has passed by the appearance of Jesus on earth for the first time, if he will appear again, then that is OK and I tend to believe that but the verse above can also be understood that he was a sign to the hour when he appeared for the first time to warn his people as all other prophets did, obviously this is clear from the message ? ? i.e., ? therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me?.

-> In fact the Quran has told us the signs of the hour has already passed

?Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them??
{The Quran ; 4718}

(1

-> While I understand perfectly that Allah may also be talking about the future when using the past tense because Allah knowledge is not restricted by time, all I will care about that the hour is coming and the prophets sent by Allah were signs to it and to warn the humans and to educate their knowledge of what they are heading for.

After all the above compelling evidences my Sunni brothers still argue hard that Jesus didn?t die and was raised alive, they brought to me a verse from the Quran suggesting that it was only Jesus that said this in the Quran

?And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.?
{The Quran 1933}

(33)

-> They see it like this, because the verse said ? ?, i.e. ? and on the day I die?, it means that Jesus didn?t die, I might have given weight to their argument however I wonder how they didn?t see 1915 where it was said about prophet Yehya the exact same

?And peace on him on the day he was born, and on the day he dies, and on the day he is raised to life?
{The Quran 1915}

(15)

-> As you see, it was said about prophet Yehya the exact same and in the same sura and we know that prophet Yehya died ?murdered?, and that is what ? ?, i.e. ? and on the day he (Yehya) dies?, their logic failed again.

My conclusion is this bro

1. I can?t accept that Jesus didn?t die yet, because he e died naturally according to 355

2. I may accept that Jesus will come back for a certain mission but that does not mean he didn?t die

3. I believe the majority of humans die and live twice but I firmly believe that prophets and possibly others can be excluded from that general law according to the wish of our God ?He made that law from the first place?, we have two examples from the Quran, prophet Uzair and Prophet Jesus, it seems for me that both went or yet to finish their sequence of 3 lives and 3 deaths

And finally bro, the only thing that makes me incline to believe the Jesus will return are the following two verse

"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
{The Quran 346}

(46)

-> Verse 346 clearly says that Jesus will talk to the people when he is a child as well when he is an old man, and hence 33 years old ?Jesus age when he died naturally? does not mean an old man which in Arabic ?? I lean to believe that he will be raised from the dead again to fulfil a certain mission, this description of Jesus speaking to the people while being an old man ?? was repeated in another location in the Quran

?When Allah will say O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said This is nothing but clear enchantment.?
{The Quran 5110}

(110)

Allah knows best

Thanks for reading

[unknownuser]

Salam AhmedBahgat, all,

Very good study Masha Allah. I just have a question. Is "kah'lan" in Arabic means "old" or "mature/Adult"? I always understood it to mean "Adult" and not "old" because in other verses "shaykhun" appear for old. Any explanation from the Quran is more than welcome.

Thank you.
Peace. Myr.

[unknownuser]

Salam AhmedBahgat, all,

Very good study Masha Allah. I just have a question. Is "kah'lan" in Arabic means "old" or "mature/Adult"? I always understood it to mean "Adult" and not "old" because in other verses "shaykhun" appear for old. Any explanation from the Quran is more than welcome.

Thank you.
Peace. Myr.

Salam mate

Thanks for taking the time to look at it closely, to be honest bro, you raised a very good question, the word Kahlan was only used in these two verses about Jesus, therefore we have nothing more in the Quran to explain this word further, however in the common Arabic use Kahalan is always used to describe an old man, now, please don?t take it as a very old man, for me I believe it means somewhere over 40, also the word Shaikh does not also mean a very old man, in fact Shaikh Kabir is the one that means a very old man, i.e. the word Kabir after Shaikh clearly indicate a very old age, a couple of example from the Quran regarding Shaikhon Kabir

They said O ruler of the land! Lo! he hath a very aged father, so take one of us instead of him. Lo! we behold thee of those who do kindness.

(7

And when he came unto the water of Midian he found there a whole tribe of men, watering. And he found apart from them two women keeping back (their flocks). He said What aileth you? The two said We cannot give (our flocks) to drink till the shepherds return from the water; and our father is a very old man.

(23)

-> As you can see from the above that including the word Kabir after Shaikhon, will confirm that it is a very old age and can?t be disputed

But we see the Quran also used Shaikh but without the word Kabir, which for me somehow means a disability due to age, in fact the aging disease is called ?Shaikhokha? in Arabic,

She said O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old woman and this my husband an old man? Most surely this is a wonderful thing.

(72)

-> Therefore I believe Shaikh alone can mean an ageing man or a young man who is suffering from that disease ?Ageing? which causes some sort of disability, Shaikhon Kabir should means a very ageing man that must be really old because of the word kabir ?Allah knows best?

Now we read in the Quran that the humans keep growing until reaching the age of maturity which is 40

And We have enjoined on man doing of good to his parents; with trouble did his mother bear him and with trouble did she bring him forth; and the bearing of him and the weaning of him was thirty months; until when he attains his maturity and reaches forty years, he says My Lord! grant me that I may give thanks for Thy favor which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may do good which pleases Thee and do good to me in respect of my offspring; surely I turn to Thee, and surely I am of those who submit.

(15)

-> Therefore and based on the common use for the word Kahlan. It must be after the age of maturity i.e. must be more than 40 years old, by how much?, I really don?t know, but I know 50 years old man can be called Kahaln and may not be called Shaikh because he may not be suffering from the ageing disease yet

Finally and logically speaking, if Allah used the word Shaikh to mean Old age, and Shailkhon Kabir to mean very oild age, why it was not used in these two verses about Jesus?, therefore, most likely it has to be less than Shaikh and more than maturity which was determined as 40 years old, and we know that Jesus died at 33

PS I?m not arguing this with you, in fact I?m very open to drop that concept totally about the return of Jesus as I hardly believe in it from the first place and my belief can?t be conclusive using the word Kahlan alone, I only tend to believe as such

Peace be with you