Meditation
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Peace Tay
I agree that it seems that way sometimes, but I think it has more to do with getting caught up in negative routines than anything else. Many times I've caught myself in a negative cycle and in that, I find wonder, as it exemplifies the true seperation between mind and soul. The mind is like a machine. It is a thought processor. Left alone, it will run itself into meaningless chaos, as it does not choose direction. It cannot observe, it can only act. The soul is what guides. The soul is the observer, the voice that says, "This sucks! It's time for change".
Nicely said! And I totally agree. That was pretty much what I was trying to say...that it is easy to get caught in a negative cycle. Where the mind takes in junk that can slow down the system by making us drag along thoughts of doom and despair. It can creep in when we're not paying attention. Until, like you said, the soul gives a wake-up call. D
I also agree with you on being around negative energy too much. While I think there are some negative situations we can't avoid, I do think we shouldn't deliberately place ourselves in situations where negative energy can contaminate us. Certain people are simply not healthy to be around for long periods of time. The same applies to books, TV and movies, which may not seem all that bad on the surface but still have a "depressing" effect.
It's as if we get so drained and negative ourselves, we've got little left to use when faced with a spiritual test or challenge. Even athletes have training time in which they build their muscles and endurance so they are prepared for competitive challenges. If they raced (or kicked or competed in any way) every day, they would quickly burn themselves out.
In addition to the experiment you mentioned, there's another interesting one I ran across many years ago. You may have already heard of it, but for those who haven't...
You'll need a friend for this one. Hold out your arm and invite your friend to press down on your arm while you resist as hard as you can.
Next, say to yourself (in your own mind so your friend isn't influenced), several times, "I am strong. I am strong." Then repeat the arm-pushing part and notice the change in resistance.
Now, repeat this process, saying, "I am weak. I am weak." Typically, your friend will be able to push your arm down quite easily when s/he could not before.
You can mix it up, so that the order of the "strong" "weak" statements are random. Just be sure to end with a final "I am strong" and arm push. Don't want to leave with a "weak" impression on the brain.
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Peace be upon you Tay,
One should surround him/herself in a positive environment for the sake of nurturing their spiritual development. Part of the overall development of the individual comes from dealing with adversity and negativity. One should learn to do so in a peaceful, balanced manner.
Agreed D
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Peace all
Peace idolfree...I'd asked you somewhere in this thread about the Kemetic system you'd mentioned, and I saw reference to it again, just now, on the Ramadan thread. I'm curious to know more about this, if you'd be willing to share some of your information. The only thing I know is that it has something to do with early Egyptians...and that may be off base.
Unless, of couse, you've given up on me since discovering that I have delusions about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. wink
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Peace idolfree...I'd asked you somewhere in this thread about the Kemetic system you'd mentioned, and I saw reference to it again, just now, on the Ramadan thread. I'm curious to know more about this, if you'd be willing to share some of your information. The only thing I know is that it has something to do with early Egyptians...and that may be off base.
Unless, of couse, you've given up on me since discovering that I have delusions about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
lol No, never that, I would be glad to share more about that. Problem is, there is so much I just don't know where to start, plus I rather start another thread for that. What do you think of that?
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Peace idolfree,
Excellent idea! I would imagine this is probably one of those areas where there are more wrong ideas than right ones floating around. There used to be some people I knew who wore ankh necklaces, but I don't think they really knew much about why they were doing so.
On a completely wild aside...the show "Stargate" fascinates me in its use of Egyptian mythical gods along with creatures that seem to fit certain theories about the jinn. lol I know! I'm slipping into storyland again!!
And I'm relieved you won't hold my opinions against me...even though I haven't admitted yet how I have been known, on occasion, to whisper tales of quarks and probability waves to impressionable young minds. shock D
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Excellent idea! I would imagine this is probably one of those areas where there are more wrong ideas than right ones floating around. There used to be some people I knew who wore ankh necklaces, but I don't think they really knew much about why they were doing so.
Yes, I guess its the same with all "groups", people wearing the "form" without the "content". As each group develops its "content" , they start to merge into ONE. D
On a completely wild aside...the show "Stargate" fascinates me in its use of Egyptian mythical gods along with creatures that seem to fit certain theories about the jinn. I know! I'm slipping into storyland again!!
And I'm relieved you won't hold my opinions against me...even though I haven't admitted yet how I have been known, on occasion, to whisper tales of quarks and probability waves to impressionable young minds.
D No, I will not hold your opinions against you. I also liked Stargate, the Movie, I never really watched the Television show. I find the use of Sebek, which is the canine headed animal, to be very clever.
In the Metu Neter system that I study, there is a diagram for understanding the Spirit/Mind, which is refered to as the Tree of Life. If anyone has studied the Kabbalah of Jewish tradition (which was learned from the Cannanites), then you will be somewhat familiar with this diagram. Anyway, SEBEK, in the Kabbalah tradition is refered to as "HOD".
This faculty is called the "opener of the Way" because it corresponds to your THOUGHTS and BELIEFS. If you have the correct thoughts and beliefs, the way is opened, if not, the way is closed. In the Kemetic Story of Ausar, it is SET'S(evils) greatest tool. It deals also with communication (Media, etc).
What is also interesting is the the "H" in "HOD" is interchangeable with "G", which would give us "GOD".
I find it interesting that the masses were given a name for the Creator "God" that corresponds to the faculty that deals with Evils greatest tool. And getting back to Stargate, we see this figure being used by those who tried to DECIEVE the MASSES! D
I'll start the thread now, but please be patient with me in my responses, I want to keep my balance with this reading(quran), in fact, I will do my best in trying to show verses from this reading(quran) that I think correspond.
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
I started the thread in the "off Topic" section.
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Peace all.
There's a question I've been wrestling with recently that I hope some of you can help with. I thought maybe this meditation thread might be a good place to ask if anyone's considered the balance between positive thinking and submission.
That is...if I use visualization of positive images of outcomes, am I trying to assert my will over God's? From my own experiences, I know that visualization and affirmations work wonders. But I'm wondering where the line is between acceptance and positive visualization. Or is there a line?
Any thoughts or discussion about this would be most appreciated.
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Peace Sytalls,
In my humble opinion, your will is your gift. We should always strive for constant and never-ending improvement If there exists a means that is advantageous, then that means is at our disposal by God's grace, so long as one remains harmonious in his/her intent.
Hope that helps.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay...and thank you. That does help. It was also a beautifully expressed thought, which immediately brought the peaceful thought of "faith" to my mind.
I saw your post on the other forum about finding a clear pic for your avatar, which gave me an idea. What if you used a photo of the "birth" sculpture? Here's a link to an image I found. It might be slightly clearer than the painting. )
http//www.meaus.com/dali-egg.JPEG
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
First, I agree with Tay but would state it in this manner;
Your PROGRAMMING TOOLS (verbal and visual thinking) which are used by the PROGRAMMER(the WIll) are the MALAIKA(controlling forces) at our disposal. We submit to the God and they submit to Man because they submit to the God WITHIN man. But we have to realize our DIVINITY, and not be trapped into thinking we are part of ANimal Kingdom. We are individuals (indivisible duality), but one part we are to identify with (the SEER/The One who wills) and the other part is for us to control and direct, this part is described as the NAFS(spirit).
Notice how it is stated to us that we have a NAFS, not that we ARE the NAFS.
I want to share a section from a book that I think is fantastic called "Maat The 11 Laws of God" by Ra Un Nefer Amen, which talks about the faculty SEBEK, which is our verbal thinking. It helps to explain how even positive thinking can fail when we identify with the wrong part of BEING.
"Sebek corresponds to our faculty for thinking verbally. We use it to name, describe, define, to express our belief, and our knowledge. Like the imagination it is a programming tool. This function comes into play when we affrim our beliefs, knowledge, or rational convictions.
Like the imagination, man's verbal thought faculty has been extensively used in the medical arena, hypnotherapy and meditation. In fact, it is used in conjunction with imagery in the same clinical applications detailed in the preceeding chapter. Unlike imagery however, it has recieved a little more notoriety with the masses; positive thinking, psycho cybernetics, Nuero Lingistic Programming, suto suggestion, etc.
As with imagery, it too has failed to live up to its full potential, for the same reasons. While accrording to the method of positive thinking, for example, we are told to affirm thoughts that indicate success, confidence, self esteem, and so on, the person that is affirming these positive thoughts is still no more than a human. The system doe not take into account the growth potential of man, which culminates in a divine being possessed of spiritual power, wisdom, and a peaceful nature that transcends all possible challenges in life. In the back of the person that is affirming such positive beliefs, there is the gnawing thought that one day there will come a challenge that will be beyond his/her human ability to endure. The same applies to other systems-meditation, hypnotherapy, psycho cybernetics, etc.
More important is WHO is affriming thatn what is being affrimed. If the one who is affirming is the likeness of the 11 Laws of God, then there will be no lines drawn in the sand. Only positive thoughts can flow from these laws. On the other hand, affirmations made with the view of one's self as a human being, will be oppossed by the belief that one is locked into the set of characteristics that define the hman being. Many women attending pain free birthing workshops that we give find it inconcievable that there can be such a thing. And this is still in the realm of human possibilities!
In order to enable affrimations to manifest thier FULL potential, our affirmations must be based on our understanding of the synergistic (combined) interaction of all 11 Laws as revealed by reasoning. Affrimations that are based on beliefs or faith will eventually collapse. We "believe" and declare "faith" because we cannot prove that we know."
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PEACE, IDOL,
Salaat, according to my understanding, means "process". And the implication is that it is the process of meditation, which is "talking" to the God. Dua (prayer) is the calling on the God, Al salaat(the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers.
733 Say the things that my Lord has indeed made haram are shameful deeds...and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.
Main Entry OPINION belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.
Main Entry IMPRESSION a vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
Main Entry POSITIVE not speculative incontestable independent of changing circumstances.
Main Entry KNOW be certain of.
Main Entry CERTAIN known or proved to be true indisputable, dependable, reliable.
Main Entry KNOWLEDGE the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
Main Entry FACT the quality of being actual something that has actual existence a piece of information presented as having objective reality- in fact in truth.
Main Entry ACTUAL existing in fact or reality not false or apparent.
Main EntryTRUTH the state of being the case fact the body of real things, events, and facts actuality.
Main EntryREAL not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, or apparent occurring in fact.
Main Entry CONJECTURE supposition inference from defective or presumptive evidence b a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.
Main Entry IMPLY to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement.
I'm bewildered by your continued use of the term imply, which means you are only opinion making/conjecturing. Per the above ayat, Allah, forbids anyone to conjecture about Him. It is fine to give one's understanding, but an understanding, as opposed to implying/conjecturing/opinion making, is based on an ayat or ayats and not one's imagination of a thing.
With this said
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what ayat states that mankind talks to Allah by way of "salat"?
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what ayat says through the salaat (the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers?
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace PRIEST_BOKMEI,
(PM) 3342-44
O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who supports/"yusalli ?laykoum" you, along with His Angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.--
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PEACE, SOMEONE,
Peace PRIEST_BOKMEI,
(PM) 3342-44
O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who supports/"yusalli ?laykoum" you, along with His Angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.--
What are you trying to convey? Please don't drop ayats and then not explain why, it is not at all helpful. Please explain yourself, thanks.
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Peace Priest_Bokmei and all,
what ayat states that mankind talks to Allah by way of "salat"?
In salat we are to recite ayaat from Al-Qur'aan while turning towards Allah which is akin to talking to Allah
2946 Recite what is inspired to thou of the Scripture, and uphold the contact-method; for the contact-method prohibits evil and vice, and the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
3530 Surely, those who recite God's Scripture, and uphold the contact-method, and spend secretly and openly from what We have provided them, they are seeking a trade that can never lose.what ayat says through the salaat (the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers?
The following ayat could be it
1188 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your contact-method order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? You are the compassionate, the sane!"
Having said that, I do not think that salat is a process of meditation. Meditation is a method of quieting the mind and focusing and LISTENING to Allah. Salat is a process or method of turning towards and making a connection or contact with Allah by remembering and glorifying Him, which is both mental and physical and primarily involves ORATION of ayaat of Al-Qur'aan in a moderate tone. Through this process we are regularly reminded of Allah and that helps us to closely follow Allah's commands and to ponder or meditate on the universe in a better way, thereby submitting to Him. So salat helps us to meditate but is not meditation itself.
Salat is to be upheld at certain times but meditation can be done any time, while standing, sitting ot lying down
3192 Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the Earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
Please see the following link to an interesting article by Edip about salat
http//19.org/index.php?id=14,276,0,0,1,0
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace upon you PRIEST_BOKMEI, all
Those verses say that the god "yusalli" on those who "a'manou", to lead them out of darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge).
When meditating or simply thinking, we are making new links and taking off other links, trying to match our conception of things with the "reality" of these things. We seek to get closer to the truth of things. And the ultimate truth is the god, thus we are in fact seeking to get closer to the god.
And when one seeks the god, the god surely answers the call and estalishs a link with him, thus "yusalli".
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PEACE, SOMEONE,
Those verses say that the god "yusalli" on those who "a'manou", to lead them out of darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge).
When meditating or simply thinking, we are making new links and taking off other links, trying to match our conception of things with the "reality" of these things. We seek to get closer to the truth of things. And the ultimate truth is the god, thus we are in fact seeking to get closer to the god.
And when one seeks the god, the god surely answers the call and estalishs a link with him, thus "yusalli".
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It is my understanding that yusalli, means that Allah performs salat as well. Is salli, not salat?
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, TANVER MD
Please answer the following question below, it will clear many things up. Please simply answer yes or no, thanks.
GUIDANCE the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
A. 53...This day have I perfected for you your deen and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Al-Islam as a deen...
Main Entry PERFECT/ED being entirely without fault or defect flawless satisfying all requirements pure, total lacking in no essential detail complete meaning not lacking or faulty in any particular to bring to final form.
Main Entry COMPLETE having all necessary parts, elements, or steps.
Q. What is meant by necessary, essential, indispensable, and detailed?
A. Main Entry NECESSARY an indispensable item logically unavoidable that cannot be denied without contradiction
Main Entry ESSENTIAL something on which an outcome turns or depends. something necessary, indispensable, or unavoidable of the utmost importance indispensible necessary mean so important as to be indispensable belonging to the very nature of a thing and therefore being incapable of removal without destroying the thing itself or its character applies to something that is a foundation without which an entire system or complex whole would collapse suggests something that is necessary to a thing's continued existence or operation.
Main Entry INDISPENSABLE absolutely necessary essential.
Main Entry DETAIL to report minutely and distinctly specify marked by abundant thoroughness in treating small items or parts.
THE QUESTION
Did Allah leave out any necessary/essential/indispensible detail from Al-Quran, His Perfect and Complete Book of Guidance, which could result in an individuals going astray and inevitably going to HELL? Yes or no?
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace Priest_Bokmei,
Did Allah leave out any necessary/essential/indispensible detail from Al-Quran, His Perfect and Complete Book of Guidance, which could result in an individuals going astray and inevitably going to HELL? Yes or no?
The answer is No.
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Peace all.
Thanks for that information, idolfree. You've given me quite a bit to think about. While I don't do affirmations about "belief" and "faith," I was interested in the human potential you mentioned. There have been many times in my life when I've experienced amazing changes in my life when I've simply shifted my attitude, as well as using visualization.
But knowing that thoughts precede actions, I'd wanted to refine my "positive meditations" to make sure I wasn't trying to seize control in any way. What you and Tay said about will and alignment and harmony have helped clarify my own thinking about certain aspects.
By the way, I've had some very interesting PMs about 'nafs' with another FM poster. Sort of a free for all discussion along the lines of the comment you made about the nafs. D Seems the more I've opened myself up to study and reflection on this subject, the more I discover.
For salat and contact-method, I have a personal path I follow in terms of what I feel is my daily duty. It is one that I learned in stages over the years since I first chose the path of submission. Oh, and I've been practicing meditation since I was 10...although it never brought me quite the peace I was looking for until I decided to become Muslim (insert usual labeling apologies here). There was an experience I had not too long ago that gave me a sort of "knowing" that what I was doing should remain basically the same, with some refinement in my practices.
For meditation, I find great value in hearing about others' experiences and discoveries...wonderful opportunities to gain new spiritual insights.
So peace, thanks and God Bless.