i'm new here
-
wa alaikum as salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuh,
first off, i apologize if i came off in a disrespectful manner or tone or anything of that sort-- it was not my intent. forgive me if so.
secondly, Allah the Exalted tells us in surat al-Hashr ayah 7 (597) "..So take what the Messenger (salAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And be concious of Allah, for verily Allah is strict in punishment." In surat al 'Imran ayat 31-32 (331-32) Allah ta'ala also tells us, "Say 'If you love Allah, follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.' Say 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' But if they turn back, Allah loves not those who reject faith." Allah ta'ala says in surat al-Nisa verse 59 (459) "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, If ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination (ahsanu ta'weela)." Allah ta'ala also tells us in that same surah (469) "All who obey Allah and the Messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah--of the Prophets, the sincere, the witnesses, and the Righteous. What a beautiful fellowship."
There are atleast another 21 ayat that I have found that tell us to follow Allah AND His Messenger peace be upon him. I will write more later inshaAllah.
But on a last note, reading that last ayah "All who obey Allah and the Messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah--of the Prophets, the sincere, the witnesses, and the Righteous. What a beautiful fellowship," there should be no doubt in whether or not following the Messenger peace be upon him is obligatory. If we have all studied our religion correctly, to the core, we would know that to live a life of Islam without the advice and rulings laid down by the Prophet (by the will of Allah for the Messenger "never said out of his own desire" (533)) would be impossible. And if everyone who believes that the Quran should be the only thing followed, then not following and obeying the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him is not following the Quran, for Allah ta'ala has told us numerous times to obey him.
And Allah knows best.
Jazakum Allahu khairun for your time.Oh and if you've studied and researched for years and now believe that the sunni and tabi'oon and tabi'een etc are false, then one's research must be relooked, because there is a problem in that. Sunni and shi'a are sects that arose during the caliphate of Abu Bakr because they believed that Ali should've been khalifa. When Ali bin abi Talib was killed these sects strengthened. More alter inshaAllah.
-
Shakhsa,
Peace and welcome to the board.
i read one sentence on your homepage...
I highly recommend you read a few articles and even some of the books available, if you like. You will quickly realize that all you mentioned in your last post is extensively talked about.Those who listen to what is being said, then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
There are atleast another 21 ayat that I have found that tell us to follow Allah AND His Messenger peace be upon him.
I'm glad you actually wrote that correctly - messenger.Peace be with you.
-
The shahada is to bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad peace be upon him is His Messenger. To believe and not follow is well, Im not sure, because never did I think that Muslims can say that we dont need to follow the Prophet peace be upon him. He lived his life for us, so we could say ash-hadu anna lailahaillAllah wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa Rasuluh. He cried for us because he worried about his ummah Ummati Ummati. We were what he worried about when he was dying. To not follow his sunnah is a problem, and I know you dont need to have a phd or be an md or have gone to school to know that to deny the reality of the obligation to follow and obey him is an even bigger problem.
I know that you all have your reasons to believe what you believe, and I respect that, but honestly, when someone says we shouldn't follow the Messenger... man. It worries me. This is what the Ummah has come to-- Denial of the one who lived his life for us. And we wonder why the Muslims are "suffering." To not follow the Prophet.. that's gotta be one of the greatest sufferings. And yeah maybe I'll read some articles on this site, see what else there is... but By Allah, never will I fall into this.. movement, with the will of Allah ta'ala. Please, think about what I've said and do something, make a change... these beliefs aren't going to help anyone.
fii amanillah.
with love, for the sake of Allah, and there is no love greater than that..
your sister -
Peace Shakhsa,
Welcome to the forum
The shahada is to bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad peace be upon him is His Messenger. To believe and not follow is? well, I?m not sure, because never did I think that Muslims can say that we don?t need to follow the Prophet peace be upon him. He lived his life for us, so we could say ash-hadu anna lailahaillAllah wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa Rasuluh. He cried for us because he worried about his ummah ?Ummati Ummati.? We were what he worried about when he was dying. To not follow his sunnah is a problem, and I know you don?t need to have a phd or be an md or have gone to school to know that to deny the reality of the obligation to follow and obey him is an even bigger problem.
I am not sure why you are adressing the above statement to this crowd? You will be hard pressed to find people here who do not follow the messenger. In-fact, we pride ourselves in adhering to God's commands as much as possible in obeying Him and His messenger.
Also, with regards to the shahada you mention...Do you know its origins?
We refuse to speak the shahada for its blasphemey against God's teachings...When God says 'He suffices as a witness for the messenger' (wa kafa bilahi shaheeda), we are not willing to contradict that statement by bearing witness when we are told that the One who has bore witness is enough
The origin of the shahada you have spoken occured with the evil books of hadith whereby Abu Huraira (real or fictional character) went around town onw day teaching people to say the new shahada...According to the story, Abu Huraira was beaten by Omar when he heard this blasphemy (I wonder why?) until Abu Huraira produced the slippers of the prophet and said this was proof that he was authorized by the prophet to spread such teachings!
Is this tale the source of our religion? Or do we follow the teachings of the One who knows the secrets of heavens and earth and He only has to say to a thing 'be' and it is.
P.S. You last statement on the love for the sake of God is a beautiful statement...Ma'sha'allah.
-
wa alaikum as salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuh,
Dear sister Shakhsa,
Salaam,first off, i apologize if i came off in a disrespectful manner or tone or anything of that sort-- it was not my intent. forgive me if so.
secondly, Allah the Exalted tells us in surat al-Hashr ayah 7 (597) "..So take what the Messenger (salAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And be concious of Allah, for verily Allah is strict in punishment."This is misquote sister. Please see the verse in full.
"And whatever Allah provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to Allah and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. And be aware of Allah, for Allah is mighty in retribution." 597
Please do not try correcting Allah. He knows best what He said and for what.
In surat al 'Imran ayat 31-32 (331-32) Allah ta'ala also tells us, "Say 'If you love Allah, follow me (fattabi-'ooniy) Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.'
Follow me. Who is that? Not mentioned Prophet, or His messenger or Mohammed. This can said by anyone who is righteous, inshaAllah.
"And the one who believed said O my people, follow me (ittabi-'ooni), and I will guide you to the right path." 4038
One who believed - certified by Allah, he is asking to him people to follow him in the presence of Prophet Moosa.
So anyone who believed can ask others to follow him. Only if he/she is the believer.
Remember sister, Allah made each and everything very very clear in His book. If he wanted to say to follow Prophet Mohammed. It was very easy for Him to say so. That verse surely refered to Prophet Mohammed as well as others can say so.
Say 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' But if they turn back, Allah loves not those who reject faith." Allah ta'ala says in surat al-Nisa verse 59 (459) "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, If ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination (ahsanu ta'weela)." Allah ta'ala also tells us in that same surah (469) "All who obey Allah and the Messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah--of the Prophets, the sincere, the witnesses, and the Righteous. What a beautiful fellowship."
There are atleast another 21 ayat that I have found that tell us to follow Allah AND His Messenger peace be upon him. I will write more later inshaAllah.But you have not quoted any verse yet about following Prophet Mohammed. The verses quoted above is all about Obeying His messenger, not about following His messenger. I hope you understand the meaning of obeying.
And the most important thing in the verses quoted above are not mentioned the name as Mohammed. But it is said "Messenger". Can you see why?
But on a last note, reading that last ayah "All who obey Allah and the Messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah--of the Prophets, the sincere, the witnesses, and the Righteous. What a beautiful fellowship," there should be no doubt in whether or not following the Messenger peace be upon him is obligatory.
Again sister, you are mixing up obeying and following.
If we have all studied our religion correctly, to the core, we would know that to live a life of Islam without the advice and rulings laid down by the Prophet (by the will of Allah for the Messenger "never said out of his own desire" (533)) would be impossible.
But actually people are not following Prophet Mohammed, but they are following Imam Bukhari. Is he the authorized one from Allah or Prophet Mohammed? Prophet Mohammed does ONLY what is asked him to do by Allah IN Al-Quraan. So, that is with us, we are doing the same. But following Bukhari CANNOT be the following of Prophet Mohammed.
And if everyone who believes that the Quran should be the only thing followed, then not following and obeying the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him is not following the Quran, for Allah ta'ala has told us numerous times to obey him.
As I said above. If we follow what Allah says in Al-Quraan, we are following Prophet Mohammed, because he has done the same.
And Allah knows best.
Jazakum Allahu khairun for your time.Jazak Allahu Khairan Katheeran sister. And may Allah open our hearts to understand the Truth.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
Please do not try correcting Allah. He knows best what He said and for what.
True, it is only He that knows best what he said and for what--and the only person that knows more than we do on that is Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. I am not trying to correct Allah-- and I never did. When i quoted the ayah as"..So take what..." the too periods in the beginning were to show that there was more to the ayah. I did not mean to "correct Allah" by not quoting the ayah in full, however, it was my mistake.
The verses quoted above is all about Obeying His messenger, not about following His messenger. I hope you understand the meaning of obeying.
obey To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of.
To carry out or comply with (a command, for example). To submit, to do as told
follow To act in agreement or compliance with; obey
...these definitions seem to be synonymous. fattaba'ooni--obey, follow...when one follow someone, one obeys... i don't see sense in obeying someone and not following, or vice versa... the words are synonyms.gosta go... again, i apologize if i came off rudely or anything. honestly, i was just taken aback. it wasn't a good feeling.
may Allah the Exalted reward us by our intentions-- as the hadith of the Messenger of Allah goes "Innamal a'amaalu binniyyat"-- verily deeds are (judged by) intentions-- and may He open our hearts up to the truth.
and thank you layth.. mashaAllah. I say that statement based on a hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him when he says that the greatest love is for Allah's sake and one of the 7ppl shaded on the Day of Resurrection will be two who met for Allah ta'alas sake and parted for His sake.
uhibbaka fillah. and in response one can say.. i forgot the arabi, sorry... but it means may the one for whose sake you love me, love you. it's beautiful mashaAllah.
-
Salaam sister Shakhsa,
Please do not try correcting Allah. He knows best what He said and for what.
True, it is only He that knows best what he said and for what--and the only person that knows more than we do on that is Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. I am not trying to correct Allah-- and I never did. When i quoted the ayah as"..So take what..." the too periods in the beginning were to show that there was more to the ayah. I did not mean to "correct Allah" by not quoting the ayah in full, however, it was my mistake.
People quote this ayat for Hadith. That Allah's Messenger has given us the Hadith so take what he gave you. But this is not true. If your intension is not that but if you are justing wanted to show about the obeying of the Messenger, then its ok. Because this verse is all about giving "Maal-e-Ghanimat".
The verses quoted above is all about Obeying His messenger, not about following His messenger. I hope you understand the meaning of obeying.
obey To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of.
To carry out or comply with (a command, for example). To submit, to do as told
follow To act in agreement or compliance with; obey
...these definitions seem to be synonymous. fattaba'ooni--obey, follow...when one follow someone, one obeys... i don't see sense in obeying someone and not following, or vice versa... the words are synonyms.gosta go... again, i apologize if i came off rudely or anything. honestly, i was just taken aback. it wasn't a good feeling.
No, you are not behaved as rude. Nothing to apologize. But you should understand that Obeying means to carry out the command. The commander (to whom you obey) must have to be in front of you. When Prophet Mohammed died. How will you obey him?
Please read all the verses regarding Obey/'Itaa-at, inshaAllah you will not find any asking you to obey Mohammed (by name). Because Al-Quraan has to be available till the last hour, but Mohammed cannot. So, Allah asked us to obey The Messenger and He did not asked us to Obey Mohammed.
may Allah the Exalted reward us by our intentions-- as the hadith of the Messenger of Allah goes "Innamal a'amaalu binniyyat"-- verily deeds are (judged by) intentions-- and may He open our hearts up to the truth.
May Allah accept your prayers.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
He lived his life for us, so we could say ash-hadu anna lailahaillAllah wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa Rasuluh
Wa salaam aleykum wr wb sister.
There is something i would like you to think really hard about, and perhaps take a closer look at.
He lived his life for us...
Where have you heard this before?
Did he die for our sins? ...how come there are TWELWE thousand sahabas named by name apparently?
If you want to understand what is going on here, you need to take a step back and take a good long look at the bible,torah and astro theology. Im telling you honestly...this stuff is as old, and pagan as it has ever been. Its the same phrases used, the same symbolism, and its all comming out of the bible, the torah and pagan rituals and make belief "gods". Its sun worship, and the worship of planar allignments. and the disbelievers that keep doing it, do not care for a minute what good honest prophets they smear along the way, when they as an example take prophet Isa (Gbh) and turn it into sun worship, by telling their silly tales about the same silly little things and ill informed relegious philosophy, and called it the roman catholic church. So they make a little changes from time to time, the basic concept is the same. As long as we worship the sun and venus and you dont know about it, they are fine. Sunnis and shiahs are slowly turning into the holy arab catholic church, without knowing. Wondering why things are going so wrong, what the problem could be. For every prayer it is as if evil just multiply where most of them are (worldwide actually). For they pray to God, oh my, do they pray to God, as did the jews on their way into the concentration camps, wondering why God send no help comming.
Not for one minute thinking, that we might be the ones having the problem. We havent done our homework!Every time a Prophet came to a people. the disbelievers managed to take what he said and slowly turn it into one of their planet kook tales over time. All "relegions" that we know had this happening to it. Islam being the youngest, we have a clear advantage to other good intended believers. The preservation of Al'Quran.
I will make it up to you if you want to know more about this, but i have so far found more than 20 "gods" that was all part of a triune god, and they all lived their life for us, was messengers, died for our sins, was resurected, was the lamb, was the this and the blahblahblah its ALL manipulation, and it snuk into all theology on the face of the earth! Somebody is having a laugh at our expense (
Think about this for a minute
I have no intention of insulting what you belive in, nor have i any legal right to do so. But i am telling you sister, you really should take a closer look at those papers of hadith, rather than in them.
One God, and all his messengers, one book.
Peace
Noah -
Here is a picture i found of two good freinds.
http//www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/images/20020425-4-2-515h.jpg
Both of them are grining because they know what they are doing, and they know. That you dont know what they are doing. While this may seem purely political there is a lot more to it than that. Bush goes home and enrage a rather facist rightwing, and make them believe that if they dont go and die in Iraq, they are going to hell based on old canaanite mumbojumbo inserted into the word of God and called the bible.
The other guys best mate, has a son. He is called Osama bin laden. And after he arrived at the scene, a whole new breed of sunnism, as it was never really seen as a massive movement, arised. ALL of them, based on the fact that all the problems they have is because they do not follow similar old canaanite mumbojumbo enough, and then ofcourse tell others that someone needs to die for it, and its the streight route to heaven.
By this point a clever function in your bran designed by God, should have start running. Pattern reckognition.
I could start a whole thread on this issue alone. and its all out there in the open now. actually it have been for a looong time.
The truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it,
ignorance may deride it,
malice may distort it,
but there it is.Peace
Noah -
salam... i didnt read everything, just skimmed, can't be on long now. but i just wanted to say the part about the Prophet living his life for us, i didnt mean it like being our savior or ba3rifish shuu. i meant what he had to go through to spread Islam etc etc. nothing like dying for our sins or anything like that.. nothing like that.
-
salam... i didnt read everything, just skimmed, can't be on long now. but i just wanted to say the part about the Prophet living his life for us, i didnt mean it like being our savior or ba3rifish shuu. i meant what he had to go through to spread Islam etc etc. nothing like dying for our sins or anything like that.. nothing like that.
Not on the surface of it sister. Im not going to argument my stand on the Quran with you, because i know it is the same. The Quran is the infallible word of God, and it was delivered to us by Mohammad (Gbh), period. What makes me different from you is that im very sceptic about anything added to this mighty formula, in this case hadith, when i find som many similarities between them and other relegious scriptures that are proveable rooted in worship of the heavens. Have you ever wondered about the door on the wall in the direction of mecca, in quite a few mosques? I know what we are being told it is, but the whole concept of the sacred door. the heavens gate, the sundoor. Is a very old and pagan one. There are so many things i would love for you to take a look at sister, before you condemn this site a cult or anything like it. Things that has nothing to do with the Quran, but EVERYTHING to do with torah, bible, india, canaan and worship of the heavens. But theres a bonus though sis. This stuff is really fascinating once you get in to it, and as you say, God knows best. )
Peace
Noah
