When do we stop talking?
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Peace be upon you Idris,
here is something that will really boggle your mind, it says in 2185 that the shahr ramadhan in which the reading was revealed, well when is the reading not revealed? if we go by your understanding of the reading as being any truth that guides us to the book then the reading can be revealed/sent down any time of the year, what are your thoughts?
Wow, good question. I need to give this some thought. Thank you for keeping me on my toes.
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I hope this "non-talking" does not catch on or else the forum will be dead
lol
No matter what, "talk-fasting" will probably always be preferable to "fast-talking"!
And, fortunately, I work for myself...even though I haven't yet fired myself, I have tried to quit a few times. D But that pretty much shuts down everything, since I'm my one and only "employee."
I guess you can't fire yourself!!! -)
But I would love to work for myself. I think working for yourself is more dignifying than having to work for someone else. But don't get me wrong, working for someone else is good too if you happen to enjoy what you are doing!!
Fast-talk or talk-fast....hummm -)
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
I definately agree that the talk fast is very important. I just don't understand how this all fits together.
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Salaams idol,All,
here is a view could be right to some extentAlthough i am not 100% sure.
023.001
YUSUFALI The believers must (eventually) win through,-
023.002
YUSUFALI Those who humble themselves in their counsel/discussions;
023.003
YUSUFALI Who avoid vain talk;
023.004
YUSUFALI Who are active in deeds of charity;
023.005
YUSUFALI Who abstain from sex,
023.006
YUSUFALI Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
023.007
YUSUFALI But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-
023.008
YUSUFALI Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
023.009
YUSUFALI And who (strictly) guard their prayers/counsel/discussions;-
023.010
YUSUFALI These will be the heirs,
023.011
YUSUFALI Who will inherit Paradise they will dwell therein (for ever).. 023.012 We created Man from/to have a sense of shame and the power of speech;
It?s really when you are caught in some vain discourse- you have to/must learn self restraint
Here there are 3 things which if done in vain we must learn Self-Restraint so it doesn?t happen again.
Vain talk, illicit sex, breaking a trust - of any sort.019.026
YUSUFALI "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"009.065
YUSUFALI If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis) "We were only talking idly and in play." Say "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger that ye were mocking?"002.183
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Fasting/Abstaining is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint, -Different number of fasts/abstainments (DAYS) ? Depending on the SEVERITY OF THE CRIME/Vain Actions are prescribed-SEE THE Following few ayahs.
FOR BREAKING YOUR OWTHS-3 days
FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO ACCEPT ALLAHS WAY DURING HAJ-10 days
FOR KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON accidentally though-two months
FOR CALLING/MAKING WIFES AS MOTHERS , see this is vain speech?two months e.t.c2184,2196,492,589,595,584
MISSHANDLING THE WILL
2181 Sin on them who change the will after the death ?remember this is a verbal will , so changed via a vain discourse.
2182 making up between the parties is better, in case of fear or a wrong doing.
2184 Fast/Abstain a prescribed number of days.If anybody may have realised, if you are caught in the act of lying, sex, breaking a trust ? you will feel guilty and wouldn?t be able to find the words to carry on speaking ? you will feel the shame of what you was doing and you will lose the power of speech to a certain degree. And I believe that is what Allah wants us to prolong to learn the self restraint.
God Bless.
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Salaams Br.
God forbid from the trad translations that exist -
No Elke that is not my understanding i just plainly forgot to change that.
I think most people know most of trad trans and some of the progressive quranic trans are nonsensick"o".
God Bless.
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Peace be upon you MZ,
I am not sure in what way, but you have jogged somethng lose for me.
If anybody may have realised, if you are caught in the act of lying, sex, breaking a trust ? you will feel guilty and wouldn?t be able to find the words to carry on speaking ? you will feel the shame of what you was doing and you will lose the power of speech to a certain degree. And I believe that is what Allah wants us to prolong to learn the self restraint.
That was very interseting statement. I need to ponder that a bit.
I think its starting to get clear to me, but not here yet.
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Peace,
It would be interesting to give it a try and not talk for a day. My children would wonder what's going on and not understand. Perhaps it's a faculty we take for granted, just like most of the things we do, like the use of our hands, or even eating and drinking, etc.
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Peace be upon you,
Myself, I have always been a listener. Many people in my life have said to me "whats the matter with you? Why don't you talk?"
With that said, I notice that many conversations are meaningless. People use this great ABILITY of speech, this great POWER, for foolishness. And many peoples minds are PROGRAMMED by this foolishness which brings us to the situations we face today in the world.
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Peace be upon you,
Further, what we are looking for is Help from the God through patience and the process (of meditation).
So we need to be in a state of RECEPTIVITY, how can we be receptive if we TALK SO MUCH?
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Peace be upon you,
sorry, meant to add that "talking too much" also occurs within, too much "mind chatter".
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Peace mz357,idolfree1 and all. My current understanding is that sawm(fasting/abstinence)relates to any time a person fears a destructive situation that would happen if continued dialogue were to occur(keeping quiet to keep the peace,to step back and reflect on what can be done to improve the situation and clarify your thoughts/dialogue/speech/ideas). In the quran maryam and zachariya both did this as explaining their chidrens births could be problematic to the people,until they understood themselves how to talk about their situations.(there could have been accusations of adultery or improper behaviour from the public) sawm is there to help you remove(counteract) a sin,this could be because you are encouraged to think deeply on how to deal with your sin(by fasting) and after fasting you can have a rational plan to learn from the sin(ie its consequences) and deal with the people affected by it. Note in surah 2 after the fasting verses it immediately talks about calling(dua/thinking)upon gods laws and that if you do this god will respond to your thinking(dua) by sending you guidance(awareness),this ties in with the quran being sent down in shahr ramadhan(a time of clear distress). Have you noticed some of the best moments of clarity are when you are alone and under pressure. The command to defer the fast if you are ill refers to the possible impracticality of not talking when you need a lot of assistance.
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Peace. (Continuing from my previous post)the advice to defer the fast(abstinence)in case of safar(journey or task) can stem from the impracticality to stop talking when one has a task that needs doing(eg work,childcare,looking after someone etc.)then after becoming free from these tasks one can fast. If no time is available because of difficulty/many tasks then you can feed somebody.(physically or maybe mentally-through educating them on the consequences of sin,(like community service)). Note the arabic word basharoo can mean talk in 2187,so you abstain from talking to your wives when you are studying/reflecting on how to comply with gods commands in this situation(possible marital discord) and when the fast is completed(the layl/night/end of the fast) you may talk freely with your wives equipped with the guidance needed to resolve the situation justly(if god wills). The abstinence from talking does not preclude signs(or necessary communication to children, wife,etc.) as zakariya and maryam both communicated to the people by signs. Would appreciate feedback and correction of any misunderstandings i may have on this topic. True understanding is only from gods permission. As a human i am prone to mistakes. Peace.
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Peace be upon you Enquirer,
I just read your good responses. I am behind on my Sawn studies, so give me some time to refresh myself.
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peace to all
no offense to anyone but in my view, you are trying to confuse the religion. If God wanted us to 'talk-fast' he would TELL us to talk fast. As for the occurrences of people talk-fasting, they have been generously provided by God and that's their way of thanking Him; by devoting theirself to Him, Day and Night.
Just my view though.
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Salaams all,
agree with you enquirer-good understandings you have.
Peace mz357,idolfree1 and all. My current understanding is that sawm(fasting/abstinence)relates to any time a person fears a destructive situation that would happen if continued dialogue were to occur(keeping quiet to keep the peace,to step back and reflect on what can be done to improve the situation and clarify your thoughts/dialogue/speech/ideas). In the quran maryam and zachariya both did this as explaining their chidrens births could be problematic to the people,until they understood themselves how to talk about their situations.(there could have been accusations of adultery or improper behaviour from the public) sawm is there to help you remove(counteract) a sin,this could be because you are encouraged to think deeply on how to deal with your sin(by fasting) and after fasting you can have a rational plan to learn from the sin(ie its consequences) and deal with the people affected by it. Note in surah 2 after the fasting verses it immediately talks about calling(dua/thinking)upon gods laws and that if you do this god will respond to your thinking(dua) by sending you guidance(awareness),this ties in with the quran being sent down in shahr ramadhan(a time of clear distress). Have you noticed some of the best moments of clarity are when you are alone and under pressure. The command to defer the fast if you are ill refers to the possible impracticality of not talking when you need a lot of assistance.
Peace. (Continuing from my previous post)the advice to defer the fast(abstinence)in case of safar(journey or task) can stem from the impracticality to stop talking when one has a task that needs doing(eg work,childcare,looking after someone etc.)then after becoming free from these tasks one can fast. If no time is available because of difficulty/many tasks then you can feed somebody.(physically or maybe mentally-through educating them on the consequences of sin,(like community service)). Note the arabic word basharoo can mean talk in 2187,so you abstain from talking to your wives when you are studying/reflecting on how to comply with gods commands in this situation(possible marital discord) and when the fast is completed(the layl/night/end of the fast) you may talk freely with your wives equipped with the guidance needed to resolve the situation justly(if god wills). The abstinence from talking does not preclude signs(or necessary communication to children, wife,etc.) as zakariya and maryam both communicated to the people by signs. Would appreciate feedback and correction of any misunderstandings i may have on this topic. True understanding is only from gods permission. As a human i am prone to mistakes. Peace.
God All.
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Dear all
Zakria's abstention from talking was not fasting. It was a sign from Allah when he asked for one. He wouldn't speak even if he wanted to (verse 41 ch 3) " He said O my Lord. Make me a sign for me. He (Allah) said Your sign is that you shall not speak to people for three days...". No mention of fasting, which is done by the person themselves.
As for Mariam, it was baby Jesus, not Allah, who advised her to say to the people if they address her "... and if you see any human, say I have vowed a fast unto Al-Rahman, so I shall not speak to any human today" 2619. This was because it would be him who would speak to them.
Conclusion Allah did not ask either of them to fast from talking.
Wassalam
