SALAAT - A NEW MEANING!!!
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Peace FM members,
I would like to share a meaning of salaat that I just obtained from a yahoo wideminds forum. Forget about the inuendos of the reply as both parties rely on the Quran. Here it goes
<<Mr. Saim Bakar
Assalam-o-Alaikum
Thank you for elaborating your point of view (without considering mine).Salam Mr Chaudhery. We do not need these emotional and illogical comments. How can you say I do not consider your points ?
My whole comment is in response to youur post. And the very fact that you reply me and say you agree with this, agree with that, disagree with this, query that etc proves the point. Lets just discuss minus the irrelevant remarks. That would save time.
As I said, I am in the stage of learning and have no intention to enter into controversies or indulge in the battle of words.
Sir, this is another irrelevant remark. Lets just move on.
You say; Namaz or its details are not mentioned in Quran. Yes; Ok. You say biological functions are governed by law of nature. Yes agreed. You say getting up early in the morning is difficult. Yes; a test is always hard. You say the term Aqeemus Salaat mean fulfilment of obligations listed in Quran. I have no reasons to differ.
Mr Chaudhery, it is important that we understand the meaning of the word carefully. Salat is derived from solla which means a link. A link as in a door hinge. Or as Mr Liaquat Samna - a linguist in arabic has agreed - salat means something that follows something else closely.
(Or words close to that effect - I hope Mr Liaquat will read this and correct me if I have misquoted him).In a horse race the horse that wins is called a musabbiq (so the arabs say). The horse that comes in number two, and having its nose close to the tail of the winning horse is called a musolli - one that follows closely.
Once you understand the meaning of the word, then you must plug this meaning into the verse in the Quran and see if the meaning fits the verse, the meaning fits the context of the verse, the meaning fits the sentence structure etc. After you do this, no matter what the outcome, you must be prepared to accept that meaning. That will be the truth or closer to the truth.
Now Mr Chaudhery you say you are 78 years old but I think you are purposely beating around the bush. Honesty is the mark of courage in a Muslim. Be honest and ask yourself If the 'musollan' in maqaami ibraheema musollan' means 'a place of prayer' then how do you explain musolleen in 'fa wailun lil musolleen' as 'those who pray' ?
In one place musollan is place of prayer but in another place musolleen is person who prays ? These words are both the same.
If fa solli li robbika means 'pray to your Lord' (ulema's translation - not mine) then how come huwallazi yusolli alaikum does NOT mean He (Allah) prays upon you ?
Can you honestly explain the inconsistency ?
Now plug in commitments, obligations, responsibilities etc (all derived from link = salat) and it fits perfectly into the context, the meaning and structure of the verse.
This is the truth. Refute it logically, coolly and with evidence. Otherwise have the honesty and the courage to accept the truth.
There are no prizes to be won here. We all answer to God.
I also agree that details of Salaat ( Namaz) are not expressly mentioned in Quran but if salaat mean fulfilment of obligations listed in Quran than surely the acts like glorification, gratification, repentance and a resolve to serve Allah alone with seeking His assistance in following the right path under His protection are definitely mentioned in Quran. Grouping together of these acts ( obligations) in one package shall also be dealt with under main head "Salaat".
This is really beating about the bush. There is no such thing as salat TO Allah in the Quran. There is only salat among human beings. Human beings are only obliged or have commitments among themselves. Mr Chaudhery you are a human being. There are other human beings around you - even as you sit at your computer. What are your obligations to them ? What about their obligations to you ?
Are you upholding them ? Aqeemus solaah ?
Now If you agree that these acts are also the requirements of Divine Law, then what is UN-Quranic if these obligations are grouped together in a single package called Salaat ( local name Namaz) particularly when certain assemblies and occasions of Salaat are mentioned in Quran and the entire ummah is in agreement on the consistency of this package. (References are well known to you).
Yes references are well known to me. There are NO 'assemblies and occasions of salat'. You are referring to Surah 629.
Izaa nuudiya lis solaati min yaumil jumuuati means 'when you are called for upholding your commitments from the day of congregation' .
It simply means when you are reminded of your obligations when you are congregating then leave the trading (buying and selling) and hasten to the remembrance of God and then disperse thru the land to seek God's bounty.
The office, the shop, the market, the stock exchange, the trading house, the farm yard, the bank, the restaurant - these are all places where we congregate, day in and day out.
When you are reminded of your obligations to weigh accurately, to not cheat the people (all this God has taught us in the Quran) then hasten to remember this. Then continue with your business and seek from God's bounty.
There is no such thing as Friday prayer in this verse.
You say it or not, we are, fully conscious that fulfilment of a certain number of obligations under the name of Salaat does not absolves us of other responsibilities of Aqeemus Salaat. As to your theory of keeping away from what is not mentioned in Quran, I most humbly quote the example of the computer on which I am typing this message. Although not mentioned in Quran, We are using computer simply because its use is not repugnant to Quran.
Mr Chaudhery please lets not waste time. You know what I mean. Do not be attributing to Allah and the Rasul things that they did not say in the Quran.
By the way what in Namaz is repugnant to Quran?
Can we have some honesty here ? Why are you avoiding answering my question which was 'Why dont you go and pray in a Hindu temple ?' If Namaz is Ok, then what is so repugnant to you about namaskaram in a hindu temple ?
Can you please Mr Chaudhery answer this question honestly. Or do you just hate hindus and hindu temples because thats what your elders told you to do ?
Their namaskaram facing their stones is not ok but your namaz facing your stone is very good !
Coming to the point of learning, I requested you to let me have the favour of your explaining to me the meaning of similar other obligations, which are of equal importance for a person to become Moman. These obligations are assigned to
at- taa'ibon
al- aabidon
al- h.aamidon
as- saa'ih.on
ar- raakicon
as- saajidon
al- 'aamiron bi- al- macrof wa- an- naahon can al- munkar
wa- al- h.aafiz.on li- h.udod 'allaah (9112)I would be obliged if you can give real meaning and details of how to fulfil these obligations.
With regards
Muhammad Latif ChaudheryThis is a long list. Have mercy on me Sir. Also why do you seek my explanation when you already say about this list of words that
'similar other obligations, which are of equal importance for a person to become Moman.'
You are already saying that this word list of yours is of 'importance for a person to become a Moman'. How can you say this if you did not already know the meaning of these words ? Please dont waste time.
There is no need to 'test' my knowledge just for the heck of it when you already know what these words mean.
Whatever meaning you have I am sure it must be good.
Saim Bakar the Ultra Fundamentalist
And Ultra Conservative Muslim>>Regards
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Peace be upon you,
What was the new meaning? I got lost in that discussion. Can you tell us exactly what salaat means to you?
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Here is what Hind Rifai answers to Saim bakar
Salaam Mr. Saim Bakar,
You state Mr Chaudhery, it is important that we understand the meaning of the word carefully.
So let's do try to understand the meaning carefully
You state
Salat is derived from solla which means a link. A link as in a door hinge. Or as Mr Liaquat Samna - a linguist in arabic has agreed - salat means something that follows something else closely.
(Or words close to that effect - I hope Mr Liaquat will read this and correct me if I have misquoted him).I am not familiar with the linguist Mr. Liaquat Samna but there seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the linguistic statements that you are making.
You state
In a horse race the horse that wins is called a musabbiq (so the arabs say). The horse that comes in number two, and having its nose close to the tail of the winning horse is called a musolli - one that follows closely.
PLEASE NOTE
There are 4 roots in Arabic involving the letters SL- because of the closeness of the roots some of the derivations may appear to belong to one root rather than the other-
You might want to check the following in Lane's Arabic- English Lexicon- part 4 p 1709-17222.A-----The first root is SL- the L here is pronounced as a stressed one (Shadda)-
It has a multiple derivatives that refer to a variety of meanings including making a high pitched noise ( rain, animals), the skin of a beast when it becomes dry, and SALL or SALLA which means the latter part-
MUSALLI derived from this root is the second horse that follows closely-
SILA is also derived from this root and means link-B----The second root is SALA -
This refers to Roasting as in the Fire or calumniation- or enduring something of significant severity- It is of interest that only one of the Classical Lexicographer Al- Zajjajj has sought to find a connection between this root and the word Salat to refer to prayers explaining the act of prayer as enduring significant hardship for the sake of God- and attempting to find a pure Arabic origin to the word Salat.C------The third root is SaLU- it is an Arabicized root according to most Linguists - and is the specific etymological origin of the word Salat as in prayer - it is understood to be derived from the Syriac- Aramaic Slothaa (the O has a horizontal line above it ) which is the same origin as the word Saluta in Hebrew meaning places of worship for the Jews ( reference Khashaf of Zamakhshari, Al- --Baydawi, Kamoos of Fayroozabadi)
I am sure you know that the Qur'anic Arabic contains approximately 20% of words having common derivation primarily from other languages-
-D-------The fourth root is Salt and refers to the forehead, the unsheathed sword, among other meanings-
So now you can do just what you are recommending to Mr Chaudhery
Once you understand the meaning of the word, then you must plug this meaning into the verse in the Quran and see if the meaning fits the verse, the meaning fits the context of the verse, the meaning fits the sentence structure etc. After you do this, no matter what the outcome, you must be prepared to accept that meaning. That will be the truth or closer to the truth.Now Mr Chaudhery you say you are 78 years old but I think you are purposely beating around the bush. Honesty is the mark of courage in a Muslim. Be honest and ask yourself If the 'musollan' in maqaami ibraheema musollan' means 'a place of prayer' then how do you explain musolleen in 'fa wailun lil musolleen' as 'those who pray' ?
My response
Musallan is place of prayer based on the template Mufaal- meaning place where a specific action takes place or that is built according to certain characteristics- for example - Mudarraj, Murabaa- which are types of buildings with specific functions
Musalleen and Musalloon- plurals of Musalli- based on the template Mufael- the person who acts or does the verb action Mughani is the singer-
You state
In one place musollan is place of prayer but in another place musolleen is person who prays ? These words are both the same.Response NO Mr. Bakar THESE WORDS ARE NOT THE SAME-
You state
fa solli li robbika means 'pray to your Lord' (ulema's translation - not mine) then how come huwallazi yusolli alaikum does NOT mean He (Allah) prays upon you ?
Response Huwa Alladthi Ysalli= Meaning in the classical dictionaries besides pray- Forgive, pardon, conferr honor.
I hope this helps clarify some points for you, l will be at your disposal for further clarifications, references and details.
Hind.
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Qur'an The ants- 2719"My Lord! inspire me that I should be grateful for Thy favor which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I should do good such as Thou art pleased with, and make me enter, by Thy mercy, into Thy servants, the good ones".
http//64.227.163.32/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=29910
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Peace be upon you,
What was the new meaning? I got lost in that discussion. Can you tell us exactly what salaat means to you?
Maybe it will seems you clearer if you click here
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/WideMinds/message/42000Peace
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PEACE, MOZMAHE,
Salat is derived from solla which means a link...salat means something that follows something else closely. In a horse race the horse that wins is called a musabbiq (so the arabs say). The horse that comes in number two, and having its nose close to the tail of the winning horse is called a musolli - one that follows closely.
Exactly right. What do you call someone who, closely follows what Allah commands?...a musalleena?, that is, one who is commited to following Allah closely.
Looking forward to your response.
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Peace all,
Concerning other websites worth visiting, I will welcome them as well. I have been on only three forums; Delphi, Yahoo Wideminds & the one and only Freeminds. I have profited a lot through them.
<<PRIEST_BOKMEI, just a little precision, the quote is not mine. It is from the discussion between two people on the widemind forums>>
Idolfree, I just posted the discusssion to point at a "new" meaning of salaat which I thought was quite pertinent in the way it was put. However if you wanted to know what I understand by salaat, the only thing I can say right now is that I am still taking in all opinions and that I am leaning on the notion that it was never a ritual.
JM, do you post on the widemind forums? It is mainly animated by people having roots in Pakistan.
Regards
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Peace be upon you,
Idolfree, I just posted the discusssion to point at a "new" meaning of salaat which I thought was quite pertinent in the way it was put. However if you wanted to know what I understand by salaat, the only thing I can say right now is that I am still taking in all opinions and that I am leaning on the notion that it was never a ritual.
Respected, I was just not sure of exactly what the new understanding was, thats all D
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JM, do you post on the widemind forums? It is mainly animated by people having roots in Pakistan.
No, I have never posted in WideMinds.
I sometimes read it (like islamic_dawn, which seems to be dead now), but I have not yet posted there.I just regret that the wideminders are not more numerous here at FM.
Peace