Bad is from Allah or from ourselves ?
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peace be upon all,
here is how I explained it
Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they Say ?This is from The God,? and if any bad befalls them, they Say ?This is from you!? Say ?All is from The God;? what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
Any good that befalls you is from The God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and The God is enough as a witness. (478-79)for awhile these signs (ayat) have been seen as contradicting, here is the contradiction the signs say all is from The God, then say all good is from The God yet all bad is from ourselves
for this not to contradict I've seen two things must be possible, either we are The God or "bad" is not part of "all", the first part is a huge contradiction with the basic message of the reading (quran) and tons of signs in it, so we can easily throw that out, but what about the second? first we must understand that something negative can never be part of "all" which is substantive, so with this I'd like to present to you this article i found on submission.org and which can be found on other websites throughout the web in slightly remodeled formhttp//www.submission.org/teachers/professor.html
it makes a clear case that "bad" is merely a "lack of good", a lack of something can never be part of "all" which is substantive, therefore when you read this sign think of it like this
Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they Say ?This is from The God,? and if any lack of good befalls them, they Say ?This is from you!? Say ?All is from The God;? what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
Any good that befalls you is from The God, and any lack of good that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and The God is enough as a witness. (478-79)with this we can see there is no contradiction
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it makes a clear case that "bad" is merely a "lack of good", a lack of something can never be part of "all" which is substantive, therefore when you read this sign think of it like this
Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they Say ?This is from The God,? and if any lack of good befalls them, they Say ?This is from you!? Say ?All is from The God;? what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
Any good that befalls you is from The God, and any lack of good that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and The God is enough as a witness. (478-79)with this we can see there is no contradiction
Bad is "lack of Good"? Thats a "Good" one. Almost George Orwellian! Why not use "Ungood"!? and for very very bad "ungood plus"? -)
Come Idris, "lack of good" does not make sense in the sentence. It does not feel like a natural translation.
Why not consider that Evil has it's origin in the Good? i.e Evil is also located with God himself?
Regards,
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peace be upon you lotetree,
Bad is "lack of Good"? Thats a "Good" one. Almost George Orwellian! Why not use "Ungood"!? and for very very bad "ungood plus"? -)
Come Idris, "lack of good" does not make sense in the sentence. It does not feel like a natural translation.
Why not consider that Evil has it's origin in the Good? i.e Evil is also located with God himself?
Regards,
I did not say it was a translation, I was saying evil is not a substantive thing, merely a lack of good
http//www.submission.org/teachers/professor.html
btw how do u define "evil" or "bad"? if u define it in human terms are u not just basing it on individual perception? how can u define God based on human perception? would you not be a moral absolutist in staying with one certain perception of good and evil?
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Peace all,
I was trying to research the mentioned ayaat and ponder on their meaning when I noticed something which makes me wonder that maybe 478 and 479 have been mistranslated and that may help resolve the apparent contradiction.
Let us look at the original Arabic
478 If any good befalls them, they Say "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they Say "This is from you!" Say "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
Notice the underlined portion of the ayat. In the Arabic version notice the use of the word "3aindak" after "min" and "3aind" between "min" and "Allah".
Now let us see the original Arabic of next ayat
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
Here notice it just says "fa min Allah" and "fa min nafsak". Notice the "3aind" is missing and notice the use of "nafsak".
It looks like ayat 478 instead of being translated as "all is from Allah", it should be translated as "all is from 3aind Allah" and ayat 479 instead of "any bad that befalls you is from yourself" it should be "any bad that befalls you is from your nafs or soul".
Hence it appears that the two ayat are saying something slightly different. In 478 it says that "all is from 3aind Allah" and not "all is from Allah" ("min 3aind Allah" and not "min Allah") So it may mean that all is from the presence of Allah or all is from the will of Allah. In 479 it says that "all bad is from your nafs or soul" and not "all bad is from your will" ("fa min nafsak" and not "min 3aindak")
Notice that Allah is correcting "them" in 479 because in 478 they are saying about bad being "min 3aindak" and in 479 Allah corrects them by saying bad is "min nafsak"
What it could mean is that all bad is from our soul/ego. The soul/ego has free will and it chooses to perform a bad action so all bad is from "nafs". But as soon as "nafs" makes the decision and chooses to do bad, then the bad action happens because of will of Allah. The nerve impulse goes to the muscles, which contract, and bad action happens....all according to Allah's will. If it was not for the will of Allah then no biochemical or electrical event will occur and even though the "nafs" chooses to do bad, it will not materialize. So may be in that sense, all is from Allah's will, but bad is from "nafs".
Does that make any sense? If that makes sense then the contradiction is resolved. Anyone with good grasp of Arabic is requested to comment.
Regards,
Tanveer
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salam brother Tanveer
I fully agree with what you said it makes good sense especially with arabic analysis.
so that means bad is initiated by our free will (nafs) and execution by the
will of Godany comments from anybody with good arabic is appreciated
salam
asad
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Peace Tony, Tanveer, Idris, All,
Tony
QXP is "The Qur'an As It Explains Itself", by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. Here's a link if you're interestedhttp//www.ourbeacon.com/7101.html
Tanveer
I agree with your understanding from an instinctual and logical standpoint.Idris
The message is, all things happen according to God's laws. This is inescapable. The good we experience is due to following the right path, and the misfortune is from ignoring the right path. The choice is ours, and the ability to choose if from God. There is no contradiction.Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tony,
Based on my understanding as I detailed in my above post the translation of the signs in question would be as follows
478 .............If any good befalls them, they Say "This is from/according to/because of God's will," and if any bad befalls them, they Say "This is from/because of your will!" Say "All is from/according to/because of God's will;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from your soul/ego. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
So, as brother Asad put it, bad is from our soul/ego i.e. initiated or chosen by our soul, and the execution/occurrence/materialisation of all good or bad chosen/initiated by the soul is because of The God's will.
Hope that clarifies it.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,Please allow me to add my understanding to the verses 478 and 479.
I agree in some of the points that brother Tanveer has raised. But not fully sorry.
What I understand is
"If any good befalls them, they Say "This is from Allah," and if any bad befalls them, they Say "This is from you!" Say "All is from Allah;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!" 478
You may need to look at the bolded points. It is all about "THEM". But whom this "YOU" refering to, when they say "This is from YOU"?
It is explained in the next verse 479
"Any good that befalls you is from Allah, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and Allah is enough as a witness." 479
This 479 is purely refering to Al-Rasool.
Am I right? Any comments are most welcome.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Peace,
It seems to me that 478 is describing the kind of people who put the fault on someone else for their misfortunes, avoiding to look at themselves and to fullfil their duties. And because the messenger keeps advising them that they may avoid problems, they think it's his fault when it goes bad for them.( what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!)
And 479 is a general rule for everyone (Any good that befalls you is from the god, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself), not only for the messenger. And the last part of this verse is to remind the messenger that the god is sufficient as a witness of him fulfilling his duty of bringing the message to the people, what they do with it is their own affair.
Just my understanding )
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Salaamun alaikum mmkhan,
The question raised by brother Asad was not whether 479 addresses Prophet Muhammad.
The question was if there is any contradiction between "kullun min 3aindi Allahi" in 478 and "ma asabak min sayyi-atin famin nafsika" in 479 which I have hopefully resolved in my above posts.
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peace be upon you tay,
Idris
The message is, all things happen according to God's laws. This is inescapable. The good we experience is due to following the right path, and the misfortune is from ignoring the right path. The choice is ours, and the ability to choose if from God. There is no contradiction.i wasnt saying there was a contradiction, in fact I was taking an attempt to refute the claim that it was a contradiction, I've had Shabbir's view of these two signs for a while now but I thought of it more as an interpretation which although is very convincing, would not convince one who is a new reader to the reading or someone of another faith (they would think we were using an interpretation to get around the apparent contradiction), so I decided to go at it philosophically because I didn't think there was any possible alternative translations to what I had already seen, I do agree with tanveermd but there is still no contradiction whether or not the translation is changed
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Salaamun alaikum mmkhan,
Wa Salaamun Alaikum brother Tanveer,
The question raised by brother Asad was not whether 479 addresses Prophet Muhammad.
The question was if there is any contradiction between "kullun min 3aindi Allahi" in 478 and "ma asabak min sayyi-atin famin nafsika" in 479 which I have hopefully resolved in my above posts.
That is what I said brother.
I have mentioned that 478 is about some people who may not be the believers and they always blames others (a believer or Al-Rasool) for anything bad came to them.
These are the people who always do bad or they mix up their deeds with goods and bads. What I understand here is They do so much bad that if Allah puts upon them for bad what they have done, they may not bear it. Or all the time Allah has bring them something bad as they always do so. So, the mercy of Allah is that He never brings them bad. But decides the time and date.
But 479 is all about Al-Rasool (or the first part this verse to be for a believer) that what is good to him is from Allah. As Allah never brings anything bad to the believers but except what ever a believer (or Al-Rasool) may do anything wrong.
Please correct if I am wrong.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salaamun alaikum brother mmkhan,
They do so much bad that if Allah puts upon them for bad what they have done, they may not bear it. Or all the time Allah has bring them something bad as they always do so. So, the mercy of Allah is that He never brings them bad. But decides the time and date.
I did not understand what you meant here. Can you please explain and clarify it again. The underlined portion of your statement seems to imply that bad is not from Allah. However the ayat clearly says "kullun min 3aindi Allahi" and "kullun" includes bad.
IMO 478 and 479 have been mistranslated by the traditional translators, who do not translate "min 3aindi Allahi" in 478 properly. They translate it as "from Allah" whereas IMO it should be translated as "according to/because of presence/will of Allah" (because if it was "from Allah" the Arabic should be "min Allahi" and not "min 3aindi Allahi"). In 479 they translate "famin nafsika" as "from yourself" whereas IMO it should be "from your soul/ego".
Can you please tell me what you think is the correct English translation of 478 and 479 should be? Then we can discuss it further. (Do you agree with the pm translation or what IMO it should be?)
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaamun alaikum brother mmkhan,
Wa Salaamun Alaik brother Tanveer,
Sorry for the very late reply.
They do so much bad that if Allah puts upon them for bad what they have done, they may not bear it. Or all the time Allah has bring them something bad as they always do so. So, the mercy of Allah is that He never brings them bad. But decides the time and date.
I did not understand what you meant here. Can you please explain and clarify it again. The underlined portion of your statement seems to imply that bad is not from Allah. However the ayat clearly says "kullun min 3aindi Allahi" and "kullun" includes bad.
Let me explain you brother what I understand.
For example A student wrote wrong answers in his exam and teacher failed him. Even though teacher got the option for his student to make him pass or fail, he honestly corrected the paper and fails the student. Is this the mistake of that teacher, even when he made him fail?
No way! We cannot say that because of that teacher or his correction, the student fail. But we should say that because of the student's knowledge, he got failed.
In such way we cannot blame Allah. It is true that everything (kullun) is from Allah, indeed only from Allah, but it happened only because of the mistake of one who do wrong.
IMO 478 and 479 have been mistranslated by the traditional translators, who do not translate "min 3aindi Allahi" in 478 properly. They translate it as "from Allah" whereas IMO it should be translated as "according to/because of presence/will of Allah" (because if it was "from Allah" the Arabic should be "min Allahi" and not "min 3aindi Allahi"). In 479 they translate "famin nafsika" as "from yourself" whereas IMO it should be "from your soul/ego".
I agree with you on this part that traditional translators had translated it wrong or they have not translated properly 'min 'aindi Allahi'.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salam everybody,
Brother mmkhan I agree completely with you. Everything is from Allah but what we consider bad is because of ourselves. If we fail an exam we can consider it bad, get angry with the teacher or leave the school. WE will wrong ourselves.
But if we think the teacher did as he had to do, we can accept that, study harder and try to pass next time. We will consider this situation a good one and this will be closer to God.Because it depends on which eyes will u use to see. You will understand that everything has a positive angle that Allah has given you from His Mercy. So everything comes from Allah, what you consider good is from Him and what you consider bad is because you think it is.
That's my understanding of these verses.
Salam all,
nur
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Peace be upon you Nur,
Well said, everything that happens to us helps shape us to be vessels that the God can manifest through. It is only when we think we are seperate from the WHOLE that things are "against us" and that is from ourselves, incorrect beliefs and ideas. When we think and act WHOLISTICALLY, everything fits together in one big picture as continual lessons form the God guiding us, which is good.