ABSURDITY OF THEOCRACY?

unknownuser

Hello Lote Tree,

Will you kindly address the question instead of resorting to short cut, cliche responses? You do realise this is a cliche against the Old testament and has nothing to do with the quran don't you? I don't ask this question out of malice, you claim to have outgrown the scripture, I want to hear exactly how you prevent the injustice against victims. How do you prevent taking care of the criminals but forgetting the victims?

It is a well known feature of big robberies that witnesses are customarily killed, often citing they'll only get a few years and be out. What I want to know is how does your view of justice prevent such a callous way of taking life?

Can you clarify this - this does not mean Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth does it?

Regards,

Lote Tree,

Have you got a problem with this law? Do you have a better law that protects the victims?

thanks

Yes, I think it is of the past, the past we have left behind.
Eye for an Eye makes the world go blind.

unknownuser

agreed. Good post. I guess i need to rethink my stand on how the state should interact with the populaton.
Noah

Back to the drawing board for you Noah?

Please do come back after you have re-thought everything.
-)

Regards,

No not at all...

I guess i need to rethink my stand on how the state should interact with the populaton.

In the context you pulled this out of, it should be obvious what im to rethink.

Epletive remark deleted by Admin You twist, distort, take out of context anything to fit your own trip, and to be honest, it has started to really annoy me. Expect no further communication from me untill you change this pattern of behaviour.

Elena...yeah i guess it would be a pretty lonely place without all the conjecture. allthough the Quran alone idea has started to gain momentum here. I dont even have to preach, people realise it themself, and start talking to me.

Mquran. Thank you for the link. i will look it through now )

Peace
Noah

Noah

TheNabi

Salaam,

How easy you make it for me with your neat little sentences

I'm not sure what you mean here. Is this an incomplete thought?

But we "had" our chat chap.

Yes, on a completely different thread and on a completely different subject. Make things easy on yourself and become informed.

If you want to contribute to this thread then please do so.

I do not need you to lecture me about what I can do if an opportunity arises. I come here questioning your inqueries which seem nonesensical. I hope you know what questions I am referring to. If not then I will let you know now that they are those two that come right before my reply.

If not send me PM for any personal remarks that you may have and we will take from there OK?

All personal remarks are not negative. If you have no sense of something that does not make it wrong. If I hurt your feelings by stating something you may have some guilt about then excuse my directness.

Joe

unknownuser

This is a common tactic of TheNabi, when he has no answers he runs around in circles

savage_carrot

Albion

If we are going to be speaking of common tactics, can you please tell your split personality of 'vincentia' to come back please? Thank you.

Andya_Primanda

Albion

If we are going to be speaking of common tactics, can you please tell your split personality of 'vincentia' to come back please? Thank you.

Were you around some 2 months ago albion has like 12 other personalities...

savage_carrot

Were you around some 2 months ago albion has like 12 other personalities...

I don't think i was...damn did i miss any others? Which ones?

edited

I think you are referring to the 12 mysterious personalities that emerged after the poll? Yes i was there... )

Andya_Primanda

Were you around some 2 months ago albion has like 12 other personalities...

I don't think i was...damn did i miss any others? Which ones?

It was when Damon set up a poll to obtain forum members' views to see if they want albion expelled or not. The final tally is a draw, but during the days of the poll many new people registered on the board. Damon and I suspected that these might be albion registering new 'members' to rig the poll, or managed to get some friends to back him up. None of the 'new members' ever show up again after that.

Here's the thread.

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3682

TheNabi

Salaam,

when he has no answers he runs around in circles

First of all answers to what? I think you're wylin out here.

Second I made a statement and your friend, like you, comes up with some illogical reply.

Joe

TheNabi

Salaam,

can you please tell your split personality of 'vincentia' to come back please?

That was albion being a good Christian. Lying about who he or she or he-she was and trying to spread his beliefs in a corrupt way. Funny how another christian also resorts to a similar argument about alkitaab.

Joe

ayman

What is needed is international rights. Law only comes into play when a right is violated and in this case the only law we need is the law of equivalence to punish the violator. Let each community make its own laws based on those principles of unchangeable God-given human rights. Competition and open borders (the right to freedom of movement) will naturally take care of the rest.

Can you clarify this - this does not mean Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth does it?

It means that the punishment is equivalent to the crime. For example, someone who steals a loaf of bread gets punished by working to repay the bakery not by getting his hands cut off. An eye for an eye is just a metaphor for that.

Peace,

Ayman

brook

(Eye for an Eye) means that the punishment is equivalent to the crime. For example, someone who steals a loaf of bread gets punished by working to repay the bakery not by getting his hands cut off. An eye for an eye is just a metaphor for that.

In this punishment the final word belongs to man and different from the one announced by God in 538. In spite of that, should we still presume that it is what God has decided in His divine dictatorship?

What I mean is Noah's claim

"...its a theocracy. the difference is that in a democracy man is the final word. in a theocracy, God is (this means his book)"

By the way, Dear Ayman, may I ask a favor from you. In a forum someone said that using initial letters as is done in the Quran was a preislamic tradition in the literature of the Arabs. It was a means of attracting the attention of the listeners by the poets who recited their poems at Kaaba. Is that true? Do you have any poems to verfy this calim?

Peace,
Hasan

unknownuser

agreed. Good post. I guess i need to rethink my stand on how the state should interact with the populaton.
Noah

Back to the drawing board for you Noah?

Please do come back after you have re-thought everything.
-)

Regards,

No not at all...

I guess i need to rethink my stand on how the state should interact with the populaton.

In the context you pulled this out of, it should be obvious what im to rethink.

personally i think youre a fucking idiot! just being honest brother.

Would swearing be allowed in your Theocracy?
-)

Regards,

ayman

Peace Hasan,

Thank you for your kind questions.

In this punishment the final word belongs to man and different from the one announced by God in 538. In spite of that, should we still presume that it is what God has decided in His divine dictatorship?

What I mean is Noah's claim

"...its a theocracy. the difference is that in a democracy man is the final word. in a theocracy, God is (this means his book)"

It is not different. The hands in 538 are not to be taken as physical hands no more than the hands in 3845 and 3817 are physical hands. The story of Youssef provides a clear example of the punishment decreed in 538 on the thief.

By the way, Dear Ayman, may I ask a favor from you. In a forum someone said that using initial letters as is done in the Quran was a preislamic tradition in the literature of the Arabs. It was a means of attracting the attention of the listeners by the poets who recited their poems at Kaaba. Is that true? Do you have any poems to verfy this calim?

There are several untrue statements in that claim.

What are termed Jahiliya poems has been proven to be actually post-quranic literature.
I am not aware of any such Jahiliya poems using so-called initials and if even there were some, then they are probably later fabrications that are copying the style of the great reading.
The so-called initials are not "initials" to begin with. They are written as words and that is how they should be read and understood. The Arabic language is full of such abbreviated words that seem like initials.
Eleven of the twenty nine words have been shown to have meaning and the meaning fits in the context.
There is no evidence of any Arabic poems recited at religious or political events. In fact, from pre-quranic manuscripts and inscriptions we can see that the religious and political elite did not use Arabic.
The stone cube was originally named Chobar and it continued to represent the Nabataean idol Allat well into the Umayyad dynasty. It was renamed to Kaaba over 100 years after the revelation of the great reading.

I hope this helps.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

Fahad1

It is not different. The hands in 538 are not to be taken as physical hands no more than the hands in 3845 and 3817 are physical hands. The story of Youssef provides a clear example of the punishment decreed in 538 on the thief.

salam Ayman.
538 is the only verse that tells us how to punish the thief . and it is crystal clear . 1275 is about joseph's time . the koran has replaced all the laws and scriptures . that is what i understand .

i think discussion about theft punishment should continue in this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3399&sid=9d30f40701a70cf304167795f223c7a9

salam and best wishes.
fahad.

ayman

It is not different. The hands in 538 are not to be taken as physical hands no more than the hands in 3845 and 3817 are physical hands. The story of Youssef provides a clear example of the punishment decreed in 538 on the thief.

538 is the only verse that tells us how to punish the thief . and it is crystal clear . 1275 is about joseph's time . the koran has replaced all the laws and scriptures . that is what i understand .

The principle of equivalence never changes. I will continue my reply on this issue in the other thread.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

brook

Dear ayman,

Thank you for answering my questions.

Peace,
Hasan

zenje

Peace Noah,

Your post was just brought to my attention. Please note that it is not permitted to use offensive language on the board.

Mind your language (foul and/or obsene langauge will not be tolerated).
Respect other users (this includes personal insults or remarks).
Do not repeat posts that have been moved or deleted.
Do not disrupt existing threads with non-related posts (posts will be deleted and user may be banned).
Post in the correct category (posts in the wrong category risk being deleted entirely)
Do not use multiple usernames.

Nural_Amin

Peace,

lol Never thought I would see Noah lose his temper! Keep your cool, they are just words. This is a forum for tolerant individuals that can keep calm throughout debates.

Nural