Sex more for pleasure than procreation?
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Salaam Idris,
I'm not here to explain something but rather comment something right!?
I guess all are aware of that both the Bible and the Quran are pointing out that sex with the same gender is a curse.
Sodomy is a curse at least among humans because it create a lot of deseases.
And God is talking about that the man and the woman should be as a garment to eachother.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
peace be upon all,
I read this somewhere
Khi- Salam. Ill answer this GOD Willingly. But 1st in regards to the topic question. Yes i too believe sex is more for pleasure than procreation if we dont side with the Biblical view "Be fruitful". That doesnt make any sense to me and is never mentioned in the Quran. On the contary the Quran talks more about protecting society and human society then the keeping or continuous glorification of a particular race. So yes i believe GOD made sex in the first place for pleasure and then for procreation.
So, long ago, I think that sex was done for reproduction purposes only. However, as animals that procreated through direct fertilization (meaning that they had to be joined together to reproduce) evolved, their bodies evolved to get pleasure from the sexual act. If you look at fish, insects, or reptiles (the vast majority of which do not reproduce through direct contact, but rather fertilze eggs etc.) they do not have nervous systems capable of registering what we would call pleasure, in the levels that mammals and birds register it. I believe that the development of pleasure in animals (most mammals, birds etc.) that procreate through direct (and sometimes prolonged...meaning over several minutes) sexual conact, changed the nature of sexuality. No longer was the sexual act done only for procreation...it was done for pleasure. That meant that animals would be driven by both the desire to procreate and the desire to have sexual urges satisified by anything that could satisfy them. This in turn led to the presence of homosexual beings. They can, and do, procreate, but PREFER to be with the same sex because that is what gives them the most sexual pleasure. To them, the sexual act and the pleasure derived from it overpowers the urge to have sex merely for procreative reasons.
Is masturbation unnatural? Judging by the fact that all of you tough guys around here are all beating your chests about this issue, I sense a lot of sticky keyboards. All of us here beat off; some 5 times a day! Is that unnatural? Nope. Apes masturbate constantly and they do it for reasons other than procreation.
The key is that there is a preference. It is not a CHOICE, but rather a preference. Entities that engage in primarily homosexual acts derive the most pleasure from that act...their body gets the most sexual high from homosexual acts. Can a straight human male have sex with another human male? Yes. Does that straight male like it? Maybe, but let's assume that he doesn't. he PREFERS sex with women but CAN have sex with men. He can chose to have sex with men, but will not enjoy it because his natural preference is for women. If it was completely unnatural, it would be almost totally impossible. If you throw in inter-species mating, you move closer to unnatural, however, it is not impossible (mules for example)...All I am saying is that preferneces are largely set before someone is an adult. Natural preferences and inclinations can be supplemented by environment...however, you cannot divorce the two. Nature and nurture are one and the same when it comes to sexuality. If you are born gay, socialization can make you hate yourself, but you will not stop being gay or feeling the attraction (natural preference, that is uncontrollable) to the same sex. If it was unnatural, it wouldn't happen in nature...So using terms like those do not add anything to the debate.
How do we know that gay people are not "normal" and that heterosexual relationships done for anything other than procreative reasons are totally wrong? What if the natural order is to have heterosexual sex only for procreation and homosexual sex is meant to occur in much greater frequency for social reasons? There are animals that act like that. Sexuality is complicated and the gay-straight binary applies to very few people...
Khi- The point seems to be that since apes masturate and there is also supposed hs found in the animal kingdom, hence it is an uncontrollable desire. Well for animals that maybe but don't humans have a choice? Cant a human control his hs desire if he has it? Well ofcourse he can just as he can control himself before bashing or battering someone. Hs in humans is the main cause of STDs because the humans have a much weaker immune sytem than animals. Thus even if animals do get involved in hs activities at all that doesnt mean it's normal for humans to do so. Many animals like lions frequently kill their young for their own food so they have a desire, yes, a desire for food. Should the humans do the same? Would that be acceptable? No, it would indeed be an abominal act. Moreover i'd like to point out that the hs activity the people of Lot were practing as derived from both the Quran and Bible was not merely carrassing each other but rather "anal sex", men with men and that's the point where it starts to get abominable. The other things are issues of morality and ofcourse i dislike them too because they ultimately lead to the same act. However in animals, although i know of hs activity reports, i don't think any two male species have been found to be practicing "anal sex". They, the males, were carrassing each other, coming close to each other, etc but that could have many oher meanings but even those animals were ALAWAYS FOUND IN THE MINORITY. Thus it cannot be termed normal since many animals have deficiencies of one kind or another as well and we know that. Another important point is that as long as the male has his hormones functioning properly he must be attarcted more to the female than to males in any case. If he gets more attracted to males then that must be either a hormonal disorder, hence a disease which needs to be cured OR a DELIBERATE or psycic turnabout since the hormones of a male are built/designed in such a way as to lead the body to be attarcted to the opposite sex.
In short we all have our desires, good and evil but we can and must control them. That's what makes us humans. Otherwise the humans would be like wild animals and those definitely dont belong in our modern society, do they? GOD Bless! -
I can say that in the first paragraph, the generalization that non-human animals derive pleasure from being homosexual may be wrong. I've heard people cite cases of homosexual animals but I'll have to check again whether these are special cases or not. I need to do some reading about it.
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Peace b eupon you,
We should not use animals as reasons to commit transgression. We have the ability to reprogram our Spirits(nafs), we are the Khalifas. Our job is to transcend the animal level. This is why the God compares the ignorant as animals, nay even worse.
Even changes some to apes and swine, metaphorically of course.
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good points guys,
see.. now i'm confused
if people are born gay, they have a natural sexual preference,
i've believed that homosexuality is a sin, or at least the acts (sodomy..etc.). It doesn't seem fair...any information would be good, i dont think i'll find much elsewaer
peace,
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good points guys,
see.. now i'm confused
if people are born gay, they have a natural sexual preference,
i've believed that homosexuality is a sin, or at least the acts (sodomy..etc.). It doesn't seem fair...any information would be good, i dont think i'll find much elsewaer
peace,
I know it's hard to swallow at times but for me, just because something is 'natural' does not mean that it's morally right. I know this is problematic. People start to question the benevolence of God when this option is raised.
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good points guys,
see.. now i'm confused
if people are born gay, they have a natural sexual preference,
i've believed that homosexuality is a sin, or at least the acts (sodomy..etc.). It doesn't seem fair...any information would be good, i dont think i'll find much elsewaer
peace,
I know it's hard to swallow at times but for me, just because something is 'natural' does not mean that it's morally right. I know this is problematic. People start to question the benevolence of God when this option is raised.
Oh no this going to be another homosexuality argument!
Bring on the forum member the Kebab Monster again! -
SaLaM
Anal Sex is not a curse nor is it wrong just becoz animals do it. Animals also eat and take a dump, should that be haram as well for humans? Ive never heard even 1 intelligent argument against anal sex. And as far the "dieases from anal sex" goes, yes it happens, just like some are alergic to medicine and fur or cats or dogs. There are bound to be people who dont prefer anal sex. So what? Should cats and dogs and medicine also be banned becoz a few people are allergic to it?
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SaLaM
Anal Sex is not a curse nor is it wrong just becoz animals do it. Animals also eat and take a dump, should that be haram as well for humans? Ive never heard even 1 intelligent argument against anal sex. And as far the "dieases from anal sex" goes, yes it happens, just like some are alergic to medicine and fur or cats or dogs. There are bound to be people who dont prefer anal sex. So what? Should cats and dogs and medicine also be banned becoz a few people are allergic to it?
Hey you are not promoting anal sex are you?
Regards,
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Peace be upon you,
I was thinking, do animals really have anal sex or just have sex from that position? I realized I do not really know that answer.
But anyway, the intelligent agrument is that anal sex easily produces disease. We cannot compare that to an allergy. One does not WILLFULLY seek allergies while there are people who WILLFULLY seek anal sex only to produces pleasure at the risk of illness, just like one trying Crack Cocaine.
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Salaam,
ops ops ops
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Peace be upon you Sister,
I am sorry for the direct speech, but we must address the issues of real life.
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peace all
Andya, I would be interested in knowing what you find out. I do cat and dog rescue, and I've had three cats that had what seemed like homosexual tendencies. They showed no interest in females and would try to mate only with other males. After neutering, they stopped this behavior, which made me think it wasn't dominance behavior (as it is with dogs, regardless of gender), but a sexual preference of some sort.
I also wonder if this has anything to do with being around a higher number of other cats than they would if they were, say, left on their own in the wild. I am careful about setting limits to avoid crowding the cats and causing aggressive or anxious behavior. So everybody has plenty of room, but they do naturally share their overall territory and have a wider choice of "social" interactions.
Idolfree, you are right about position. Animals do not engage in sodomy. And, yes, it is just biology.
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Thanks for the confirmation regarding sodomy.
Also, when I was young, a male dog "approched" my male dog. I remember it so well because the owner of the other dog asked me if my dog was female, and when I responded that my dog was male, he asked me not to do anything because he wanted my dog to turn and start attacking his dog. My dog did not attack, but looked sort of confused while he tried to walk away from the other dog.
It was a terrible experience for me. I always think back that I should have kicked the &^%$ out of that guys dog. evil
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Peace Idolfree.
Hard to know what to do in some situations, isn't it? shock
If it helps any, that other dog's action wasn't sexually motivated. Dogs mount other dogs as a sign of dominance--both males and females exhibit this behavior. Since your dog sounds like he was well-behaved, he was probably waiting for you to kick the other dog's butt. lol That's why he looked confused. As the alpha, you're supposed to be the one putting others in their place. It's a pack thing.
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
You are packed with all kinds of info!! Thanks for helping my understanding.
On another note, I will be getting back in touch with you soon with the project you were going to help me with. I had to step back for a moment to adjust my understanding for a moment, as well as deal with the ongoing personal issues of life. But I am getting back on track yet again.
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Peace Br Kyle,
No problem but sometime I'll have to blush.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Peace be upon you Sister,
No problem but sometime I'll have to blush.
Thats fine D
By the way, is that you in the picture? I cant really see it that clearly, but just wondering if that was SwedenMajidah?
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Salaam Br Kyle,
Yes it's me, I didn't found a better picture.
And the problem is that I'll have to minimize it to fit in here.Peace
Sis Majidah