Why no Ramadzan - replaced! by 3,10,60 Days.
-
Salaams all,
A new vew
2185
(lanes and qd)
Shahr-un = He paraded(an offender)as a public example.
= new moon
=month
Shahra = devuldgeAnd ayman said
I looked up the word "shahr" in the dictionary (Lisan Al-3arab) and it doesn't seem to mean "month", "30 consecutive days", or "30 intermittent days". The primary meaning is "something obvious", "something public", and "something wide". It is also reported in the dictionary that the Arabs used to call the moon "shahr". In modern Arabic, someone "mashhur" is a public celebri
The meaning one way is by comparission of rahman and ramdzan
Rahima=To love/have tenderness/have mercy/pity/forgiveness???.
Rahman=One having the above qualities.Simerlarly
Ramidza=something becoming intensely hot, ? by the action of the sun /or by hot stones /or by a fire/ ,or something beaten between two stones to sharpen it.
Simerlarly
Ramdzan=One having the above qualities
Another meaning from lanes
Ramdzan=One of the names of God =He who obliterates sins.
Ramadzun= distress and disquietude, or grief as a consequence of some of our actions.2185
of your parading obliterate sins those revealed in it the quran a guidance for mankind and clear proofs of the guidance and the criterion ,who whosoever witnesses amongst you such parading he should fast(remove/ expunge) it and whosoever is sick or on journey (the same) number of days other wants Allah for you ease and not want for you hardship so that you complete the number and that you should magnify Allah on that he guided you so that you may give thanks.And from my other post a fast has nothing at all to do with food and drink.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3506
Salaams.
-
In Muheetul-muheet it defintes month as 1 part out of twelve parts in a year. I'll have my results in a little bit.
Also not to attack buy Ayman I always found your idea bout the difference between 'iddat and adad very weak. But I'll get back to you on all that.
Godbless,
ProGod -
Peace Anwar,
Thank you for your comments and for the thoughtful private message.
In Muheetul-muheet it defintes month as 1 part out of twelve parts in a year. I'll have my results in a little bit.
Also not to attack buy Ayman I always found your idea bout the difference between 'iddat and adad very weak. But I'll get back to you on all that.
Muheet Al-Muheet is usually not my first choice as far as Lexicons. I found that it tends to include more modern meanings than other Lexicons. This is not surprising. It was authored in 1870 by Professor Botros Al-Bustani and is considered by Arabic Linguists to be one of the most important lexicons of Modern Arabic and NOT Classical Arabic. Hence, it includes modern terms. What Professor Al-Bustani gave you is a modern meaning and that is why you can't find it in ANY of the older Classical Arabic lexicons.
In addition to the above facts, we can confirm that the meaning is invalid because applying it creates a contradiction in the great reading. According to this modern meaning of "shahr" in 2185 we are told to fast a month but we were told in the previous sentence in 2183-184 that abstinence is for a few days. This is a clear contradiction.
Please see more on this and why we can't exchange 'iddat and adad in my response to your private message.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
-
Peace Anwar,
I want to continue our private sessions. The only thing I have to say here though is that 'ayyaamin ma'loomaat' is 'known/recognized days' not 'a few days.'
I agree that "ma'loomaat" means "known/recognized". However, the word "ma'loomaat" doesn't occur in 2184-185. The word describing the days in 2184-185 is "ma'doodat".
The meaning given for "ma'doodat" in Classical Arabic dictionaries is "something that can be counted on the fingers". This is consistent and few ("ma'doodat") is always used to mean less than or equal to ten in the great reading. So unless someone happens to have thirty fingers, there is no need to invent a new meaning.
Moreover, notice that the complete count is said to be a "complete 10" in 2196 and in 2827. Hence, when we hear in 2183-184 that abstinence is for a few days and then we hear in 2185 that we should complete the count this means that the count of the days of abstinence is 10 days and not a whole month. Since for most people completing the count on the hand means counting the 10 fingers, this is again consistent with the dictionary meaning.
This is also confirmed by archeological evidence showing that pre-quranic Arabs used a base-10 tally system for counting.
I hope this helps and I look forward to our continued discussion.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
-
Sorry about the ma'loomaat. But I disagree with you on the ma'doodaat. It just means 'counted.' You can count 20 oro 30 with your fingers. I'll check to see if the dictionaries say 10. However, just because the Koran says that 10 of something is counted or ma'doodaat, that does not limit the definition of the word to 10 only.
Godlbess,
ProGod -
Sorry about the ma'loomaat. But I disagree with you on the ma'doodaat. It just means 'counted.' You can count 20 oro 30 with your fingers. I'll check to see if the dictionaries say 10. However, just because the Koran says that 10 of something is counted or ma'doodaat, that does not limit the definition of the word to 10 only.
Ma'doodaat according to Al-Wasit
" ".
"what can be counted on the fingers".
Although one can count 1000 on his fingers, this is not the image that first comes into mind when one hears "what can be counted on the fingers". Had Al-Wasit said "fingers and toes" then 20 would have been what first comes into mind. Had it said, "fingers of 3 people" then 30 would have been the first thing that comes in mind. Unless someone already has another preconceived meaning in mind, the meaning of ten or less is what first come into mind when hearing "what can be counted on the fingers". It is a clear meaning that is consistent within the great reading and with archeological evidence.
Peace,
Ayman
-
peace wakas,
peace brothers Ayman, Anwar, all,
I have uploaded the full Lane's Lexicon entry for the root Shiin-ha-Ra in PRL if anyone wishes to read it.
Wakas
what do you think is the primary meaning for the SHR root, to me it seems that it has something to do with being obvious through eyesight or manifest
one
-
Ayman,
I think what you said yourself has to be taken into account. You can count 1000 on your fingers if you wanted to. Furthermore I would look at more than just that dictionary. It's great when you have more than one. For instance I discovered the meaning khamr as 'intoxication/enebriation' by looking at a dictionary by Salmone Habib. I have no way of gettting to it now. But it offered good meanings that other dictionaries didn't bother with. If someone in Philadelphi could visit the Universtiy of Penn library and go up to their Middle East department and look for this book(it's green) you would be greatly appreciative for this dictionaries more extensive approach. It lacks some meaning of other dictionaries but has meanings that aren't usually put in alot of dictionaries. Hava dictionary of Classical Arabic also has meanings not usually found LIsaan al-Arab and Lane's lexicon. It's like looking in an English dictionary. Sometimes Webster has meanings that Oxford doesn't have (for reasons of space, limited resources etc.)
Godbless,
ProGod
