Difficult Passage, I and We
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Salaam
I've found this 'difficult to understand' passage
Al-Ma'arij (70)
40.Now I do call to witness the Lord of all points in the East and the West that We can certainly
41.Substitute for them better (men) than they; And We are not to be defeated (in Our Plan).Why does the 'sudden change' in perspective here?
Who is the "I" in this verse, and who is the "We"?
Can anyone elaborate / give me a guidance on this..Thanks
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This is Iltift.
Here are some articles on this topic
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/robinson.html -
Can the verse be 'perceived' like this
7040-41
Now I (Archangel Gabriel / The Revelation Bearer) do call to witness the "Lord of all points in the East and the West" (Allah SWT) that We (Allah with All His Kingdom, Power and Majesty) can certainly Substitute for them better (men) than they; And We (Allah with All His Kingdom, Power and Majesty) are not to be defeated.I have involved in many discussions with the jewish rabbi regarding the use of Elohiym (The "We" , plural God's name) and the YHVH (The "True" God's Name).
They said that when the plural Elohym is mentioned, it refers to "His Power, Creation and Majesty" or "His Presence" (Depending upon the context), yet when "YHVH" is used, it refers to the "Essence" of God which truly separate Him from all of His creations or attributes.
Exo 315 And God (ELOHYM) said moreover unto Moses 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel The LORD (YHVH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.
Moses 'see' God in the form of "burning bush", the "burning bush" itself are absolutely NOT GOD, yet it is "His Power", so the word being used was "Elohym". Yet when YHVH or I AM is used, it refers to "God Alone".
Deriving from the above explanation, depending upon the context of the verse in the Quran, sometimes the "I" refers to the archangel Gabriel (conveyor of The Message), sometimes the "I" or "ME" refers to "ALLAH SWT" and the "WE" refers to "Allah and/with His power and majesty". Yet sometimes the "WE" also "a way" of God to give/share credits to one or more of "His creation" such as
2314.Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create!
By mechanism, it is the mother's (human) womb who "made" the sperm into congealed blood then to foetus then bones and flesh. Yet the mother's womb are also "His Power/ His Creation", so the word "WE" here is "a way" of Allah give credits / respect to "female human" for taking part in the process of "creating a new human".
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Only Allah knows best.. -
Peace Jafar,
Deriving from the above explanation, depending upon the context of the verse in the Quran, sometimes the "I" refers to the archangel Gabriel (conveyor of The Message), sometimes the "I" or "ME" refers to "ALLAH SWT" and the "WE" refers to "Allah and/with His power and majesty". Yet sometimes the "WE" also "a way" of God to give/share credits to one or more of "His creation" such as
2314.Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create!
By mechanism, it is the mother's (human) womb who "made" the sperm into congealed blood then to foetus then bones and flesh. Yet the mother's womb are also "His Power/ His Creation", so the word "WE" here is "a way" of Allah give credits / respect to "female human" for taking part in the process of "creating a new human".
Very interesting...I have roughly the same understanding (you put it very well) it's what makes sense to me and not the 'we' as in royalty...and btw, welcome to the forum
Nadia
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Wa Alaikum Salaam,
Brother Jafar,"And we are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Lord was never to forget." 1964
This is clear enough to understand that "WE" is not at all refering to "Allah" because "Allah" is not plural. For more details
"So when he came to it he was called 'O Moses'." 2011 (who is reporting this to us?)
"I am your Lord, so take off your slippers, you are in the holy valley Tawa." 2012
"And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired." 2013
"I am Allah, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and uphold the contact-method for My remembrance." 2014
You can see in all the above verses that Allah knows grammer and He can use I for Hismself correctly )
Like to see more references? InshaAllah, have a look below
"O Zachariah, We give you glad tidings of a son whose name is Yahya. We have not given that name before to anyone." 197 (Who are WE in this verse? Allah? No way)
"He said My Lord, how can I have a son when my wife is infertile, and I have reached a very old age?" 198 (But he is returning to Allah)
"He said It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything." 199 (Got it here? Here is Allah but in 197)
"He said My Lord, make for me a sign. He said Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively." 1910 (Who is the reporters again? We? Yes! We are the reporters to us)
In continuation....
"It was then that Zachariah called on his Lord, he said My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny, You are hearer of the prayers." 339
"The Angels called to him while he was standing to the contact-method in the temple enclosure Allah gives you good tidings of Yahya, authenticating the word from Allah, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright." 340 (Please compare this with 197 above which uses WE)
"He said My Lord, how can I have a son when old age has reached me and my wife is sterile? He said It is as such that Allah does what He pleases." 341 (Please note the use of HE in this verse and compare it with 198-9)
"He said My Lord, make for me a sign He said Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn." 342 (Compare this verse with 1910)
Hope this all help but I cannot say that "WE" is always refering to "Angels" but it could be any forces of Allah that He uses for work. But one thing is for sure that "Allah" is only "I" and "ME", no "WE" at all.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salaam
I've found this 'difficult to understand' passage
Al-Ma'arij (70)
40.Now I do call to witness the Lord of all points in the East and the West that We can certainly
41.Substitute for them better (men) than they; And We are not to be defeated (in Our Plan).Why does the 'sudden change' in perspective here?
Who is the "I" in this verse, and who is the "We"?
Can anyone elaborate / give me a guidance on this..Thanks
Khi- Salam. I believe it's the Messenger Muhammad who was swearing by His Lord since the revelation weas brought through his mouth. See these verses for example
No visions can encompass Him, but He encompasses all visions. He is the Compassionate, the Cognizant.
Enlightenments have come to you from your Lord. As for those who can see, they do so for their own good, and those who turn blind, do so to their own detriment. I am not your guardian.
Here there is no 'qul' preceding the statement underlined however logically it can be deduced that sionce the Quran was directed towards the people from Muhammad, it is from his perspective inspired by GOD. Simple. It is not a necessity that the words as coming from Muhammad in the Quran need to be always preceded by 'qul' as even some Christians remark thereby saying that the Quran is not completely the Word of GOD and thus man made. However their latter conclusion is incorrect. Id put it this way. The Quran is not MERELY the Word of GOD but also an inpiration of GOD(and theres a subtle difference) laid in the mouth of the Prophet who received it and messengers to come in accordance with GOD's Will. GOD Bless! -
Gabriel narrates the Koran, he speaks for himself and other angels and he quotes God. The Koran, but more specificially Cl. Arabic, has particular style that does not need to say 'he says' for Gabriel to quote God or anyone else. You can see it in the story of the boys, their dog and the cave.
Godbless,
ProGod -
Peace be upon you,
The "I" manifests through the "We". The God is in everything, Omnipresent.