Adam
-
Salaam,
Adam lives on today in both you and I and other people. We lose a most serene peace when we stop adhering to the laws of Allah. However Allah gives us the words that can guide us to what is best so that we will know no fear. Adam/mankind lived/s in different locals at different times.
Joe
-
Sallam dear brothers and sisters..
First , I would like to congratulate the moderators for maintaining such an interesting board, full of energy and interesting debates...
Second, I would like to comment on what member Al-Qadeem wrote here...
The fact that Joseph(PBUH) did not live during the time of Pharoah ( by the way, the correct spelling is 'Pharoah' not 'Pharaoh' wink ) may be historically accurate. Also , in the Quran, Joseph states that he was a descendant of Isaac(PBUH) and Jacob(PBUH), which puts him in the lineage of Abraham(PBUH). This doesn't mean that he was necessarily the grandchild of Abraham, but rather that he belonged to the same ethnic lineage. Moses(PBUH) on the other hand, does not seem to belong to this same lineage.
Al-Qadeem stated that Joseph lived long before Moses... During time when Egypt was not unified..
Historically this would be impossible. For this assumption to be true, Joseph would have had to exist during the pre-dynastic period ( before 3000 B.C!!! ). A more correct assumption would be that Joseph existed during the Ptolemic Age. ( Many Jewish sources agree with this, although the use of the term "Pharoah" to describe the rulers of the Ptolemic era is indeed innacurate ). The Ptolemic rulers never used that title.Hence
Moses actually came LONG BEFORE Joseph, rather than the other way around. If we accept the theory that the Pharoah who drowned was RamsesII ( or perhaps his son Mernephta ) , this was during the 19th Dynasty ( between 1280 and 1210 BC ). The Ptolemic era, which marked the dissolution of Egypt into Satraps, each ruled by a governor , began in the 4th Century B.C. ( Egypt was no longer unified ).Conclusion Moses and Joseph were separated by some 8 centuries.
I will post links to some web pages ( some of them Jewish ) to provide evidence, so that member albion can be satisfied wink
As for Al-Qadeem's theory concerning Adam, I eagerly await his post
-
Al Qadeem
Could you tell where and WHEN Adam lived ?
Peace and welcome, mansio,
If Adam is defined as the genetic ancestor of all human chromosome Y that exist today, then he lived about 59000 years ago in Africa.
http//www.corante.com/loom/archives/005799.html
-
The Koran simply says "And his wife was standing there and she laughed, and so we gave her the tidings (that she would bear) Isaac, and after Isaac Jacob "
Yes you are right it does simply say it. So simple in fact that appears that Abraham has the wrong son (Jacob). Or is this a wrong translation you have given.
Jacob was Isaac's son not Abraham's son
In fact, what I found so far seems to indicate that all his children came from the same wife!! ( She gave birth to Isaac and Jacob at a rather old age ).
At first I thought you gave the wrong translation on that verse, but you again repeated that Jacob is Abraham/sarah's son in your own words in another part of your post.
Can you clarify what your understanding is on this thanks
-
Moses actually came LONG BEFORE Joseph, rather than the other way around.....
Gen 5025 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying God will surely visit, you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence
Exo 1319 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying God will surely visit, you; and ye shall carry up my bones away.
Jos 2432 And the bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up out of Egypt, buried they in Shechem, in a parcel of ground which Jacob bought.
I will post links to some web pages ( some of them Jewish ) to provide evidence, so that member albion can be satisfied
Thanks Liberal but you maybe confusing Joseph (son of Jacob) with a different Joseph in the scripture.
a few others Joseph (son of Asaph), Joseph (of Issachar), Joseph (the Judahite), Joseph (of Bani), Joseph (of Shabaniah)
-
Albion,
According to the old testament, Moses was a superman, dear. He not only described his own death, but despite the fact that the bible said he was a humble man, he went on to boast that never a man like him will come to Israel. So Moses might have easily carried Joseph's bones before the latter was even born. Trivial matter for a superman...
-
First of all the so-called Torah (five books allegedly written by Moses (pbuh) ) are not 'pure' or 100% truthful anymore, cos the Lord (YHVH) has said so to prophet Jeremiah (pbuh)
Jer 88 How do ye say 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD (Torah YHVH - ) is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes.
There is another version of "Genesis" and it is called the "Book Of Jasher". Although this book seems to be a secular history / tales book of Adam to Joshua. It contains a story about Abram destroying idols, a debate between Abram and his people on the foolishness of idol worshipping, the trial of Abram and the death sentence by fire.
http//www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/
During Joseph's age, the ruler of Egypt was not refered to as "Pharaoh"
According to the book of jasher, chapter 14, the origins of Pharaoh came from Rikayon who named "Pharaoh" by then king of Egypt named "Osiris"
27 And the king answered and said to Rikayon, Thy name shall no more be called Rikayon but Pharaoh shall be thy name, since thou didst exact a tax from the dead; and he called his name Pharaoh.
Osiris was so much loved by the people of Egypt. After his death, he become idolized thus turned to (one of) the god(s) by the egyptians.. (The pattern of idolizing honorable person (turned to god) after his/her death seems to be recurring isn't it, Osiris, Jesus and so on...)
Allah knows best