Quran Translation in french langage

Wakas

peace Kyle,

Good point bro!

Wakas

marie

Salam all,

My post is about the translation of shaytan/shayateen which are usually translated as devil(s).

Shaytan is according the balance of faAAlaan like rahmaan...
the verb/fiAAl is shata..

In my own translation of the Reading (arabic-french) I suggest a new translation of this word in the light of the Reading

shayateen = the Promoters of the evil and fire..

All comment are appreciated,

Thanks in advance.

Jaxal

SaLaM Marie

I agree with you on the translation.

Wakas

peace Marie,

The following info from PRL might help

= Shiin-Tay-Nun (root of shaytan) = become distant/far/remote, enter firmly / become firmly fixed therein / penetrate and be concealed, turn away in opposition (from direction/aim), devil, one excessively proud/corrupt, unbelieving/rebellious/insolent/audacious, rope, deep curved well, it burned, became burnt, serpent, any blamable faculty or power of a man.

214, 236, 2102, 2102, 2168, 2208, 2268, 2275, 336, 3155, 3175, 438, 460, 476, 476, 483, 4117, 4119, 4120, 590, 591, 643, 668, 671, 6112, 6121, 6142, 720, 722, 727, 727, 730, 7175, 7200, 7201, 811, 848, 125, 1242, 12100, 1422, 1517, 1663, 1698, 1727, 1727, 1753, 1753, 1764, 1863, 1944, 1944, 1945, 1968, 1983, 20120, 2182, 223, 2252, 2252, 2253, 2397, 2421, 2421, 2529, 26210, 26221, 2724, 2815, 2938, 3121, 356, 3660, 377, 3765, 3837, 3841, 4136, 4336, 4362, 4725, 5810, 5819, 5819, 5819, 5916, 675, 8125

If I were to translate 'al quran' I would go through every occurrence and note down all information that can be extracted for shaytan/shayateen, then base my translation word choice on that. The results of such a study would be fruitful even if a coherent meaning could not be reached.

What you have chosen seems fine, but I have not checked it. From my studies thus far, I see ShTN as destructive, opposite of constructive.

Wakas

marie

Salam Jaxal, Wakas,

Thank you very much for your helpfull answers )

I have a question about wakas' answer

I don't understand why the letter nun belongs to the root?
If sahytan is according faAAlan like rahman, then the root is Shiin-Ya-Tay or Shiin-alif-Tay

If I were to translate 'al quran' I would go through every occurrence and note down all information that can be extracted for shaytan/shayateen, then base my translation word choice on that. The results of such a study would be fruitful even if a coherent meaning could not be reached.

You are right, I flew over the occurences of shaytan/shayateen, it seems that promoting evil (....) and inviting to fire are the principal action of shaytan.

Salam

Wakas

peace be upon you Marie,

I took the root Shiin-Tay-Nun from Concordance of Quran by Hanna E Kassis, checked Lane and it seemed to agree.

However, on re-checking Lane for Shiin-Ya-Tay, it seems it has also noted your observation. I have the relevent entry from Lane below. Let me know your thoughts.

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/Lane/ShTayNun_OR_ShYaTay.jpg

Wakas

marie

God bless you brother wakas )

I don't think that shaytan is a propor name but a name/attribute with several meanings.

Salam

marie

Salam,

I don't find the word sayyib (219) translated as cloud/rainstyorm in my arabic-arabic dictionnary.

Thanks for your help in advance,

Salam

Wakas

peace sister,

Sad-Ya-Ba does not have rainstorm/cloud in Lane, however Sad-Waw-Ba has "...it poured forth (said of rain), it descended, a calamity that falls upon or becomes settled/fixed..."

Wakas

marie

Salam brother, all,

Thank you very much for your help. I'd like to have your opinion about the translation of this word as a cloud. According the context we read "
"Or like a cloud from the sky, in it is darkness and thunder and lightning..."(219)

It seems correct, imo.

Thanks in advance.

Wakas

peace sister,

Clouds containing thunder/lightning tend to be dark, so that makes sense.
"cloud" seems fine, I have read translations with "stormcloud" "rainstorm" "cloudburst", but I believe the technical term is 'cumulonimbus'.

Also, in the future, please state the specific Arabic letters in the word, as to me just saying an "s" doesn't tell me if its Sad or Siin. Thanks.

Wakas

marie

Peace brother,

peace sister,

Clouds containing thunder/lightning tend to be dark, so that makes sense.
"cloud" seems fine, I have read translations with "stormcloud" "rainstorm" "cloudburst", but I believe the technical term is 'cumulonimbus'.

I think you are right for cumulonimbus, I had used some thing similar in French.

Also, in the future, please state the specific Arabic letters in the word, as to me just saying an "s" doesn't tell me if its Sad or Siin. Thanks
.

Excuse me, I din't know it oops

Thanks for your solidarity and generosity!

marie

Peace be upon you all,

I am not satisfied with the translation of "nusabbihu bihamdika" as we sing/celebrate your glory through the Reading

And your Lord said to the Angels I am placing a successor/ruler on Earth. They said Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You? He said I know what you do not know.

I note that "tasbeeh" of the angels is oposed to "he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood" (230) or" those who take allies besides Him" (425-6).

But those who carry the throne and all those around it aske God to absolve the imperfections of those who turn to and walk on His Way (407)

To go astray, to transgress, to be offender is also opposed to tasbeeh (6826-31)

Does sabbaha bilhamd mean to establish/obey/carry out the divine laws, to enter into God's system; to walk on His way?

We also note that tasbeeh goes with thikr/remembrance, sujood, salat, faith...

Like everything in the heavens and the Earth and those who carry the throne and all those around it yusabbihoona bihamdi rabbihim (407, 571), since we are established by the divine will as a ruler on Earth (230, 6165), we have the same duty than the them, to establish/obey/carry out the divine laws, the God's system.

I'd like to know your understanding of tasbeeh in the light of the Reading?

Thanks in advance

marie

Salam,

I forgot to specify the root of Tasbeeh and the verb sabbaha sin - ba - ha(7)

unknownuser

.I don't think that shaytan is a propor name but a name/attribute with several meanings..

shaytan isn't even an Arabic word.. It is a borrowed word from Hebrew

Hebrew

satan
saw-tawn'
An opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch enemy of good - adversary, Satan, withstand.

Greek

Satan
sat-an'
Of Hebrew origin; Satan, that is, the devil - Satan.

Wakas

peace sister,

After a brief analysis

some notes
SBH is only given to God.
people should SBH God.

3215 if one gives SBH they are not arrogant
571, 1744 all things inanimate and animate SBH God
1744 people do not comprehend such SBH
230 SBH can be communicated

It is interesting that people do not comprehend SBH of other things. I would assume this is because it is not obvious (i.e. a tree doesn't say "Glory be to God") so a tree is in the act of SBH yet we dont sense it.
I think this is where the underlying meaning of SBH comes in... it could be related to the following to swim, coursing along (as used in 2133, 3640) and it seems to be with the flow or on a set course. Lane even states some animals have roots associated with SBH, possibly because they follow a set course or go with the flow or go where their master takes them. This ties in with your observations

Does sabbaha bilhamd mean to establish/obey/carry out the divine laws, to enter into God's system; to walk on His way?

For humans, SBH can be communicated, as we have a voice, but it could also be deeper, i.e. we follow our set course.

Wakas

marie

thank you very much for your help brother

we follow our set course according to the God's system.

Peace and best wishes.

marie

Salam brother Wakas, all,

You wrote

230 SBH can be communicated.
For humans, SBH can be communicated, as we have a voice,

Indeed, Angels said that they SBH with the hamd of the God but I don't think that SBH in this verse consist on saying "Glory be to God".

Moses asked the God to appoint a deputy for him from his folk; his brother Aaron, we can note that there is a link between their mission and their SBH and remembrance of the God (2032-34, 2042-44).

And share with him my mission.
So that we may SBH You plenty.
And remember You plenty.

2042 Now go, you and your brother, with My Messages and stay vigilant about My Remembrance.
2043. Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has transgressed.
20 44. So say to him soft words, perhaps he will remember or take heed.

In 2179 we note the mountains as well as the birds are in service to David; they SBH. In different verses, it is also mentioned that the the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, the stars, the sea, the rivers, livestocks... are committed/in service by His command for us.

I deduce that SBH is closely linked with a mission/service.
SBH for human shoud be linked to his mission on earth which is being a ruler/successor.

All comments are welcome

Salam

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

I am not satisfied with the translation of "nusabbihu bihamdika" as we sing/celebrate your glory through the Reading

And your Lord said to the Angels ?I am placing a successor/ruler on Earth.? They said ?Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?? He said ?I know what you do not know.?

I note that "tasbeeh" of the angels is oposed to "he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood" (230) or" those who take allies besides Him" (425-6).

But those who carry the throne and all those around it aske God to absolve the imperfections of those who turn to and walk on His Way (407)

To go astray, to transgress, to be offender is also opposed to tasbeeh (6826-31)

Does sabbaha bilhamd mean to establish/obey/carry out the divine laws, to enter into God's system; to walk on His way?

We also note that tasbeeh goes with thikr/remembrance, sujood, salat, faith...

Like everything in the heavens and the Earth and those who carry the throne and all those around it yusabbihoona bihamdi rabbihim (407, 571), since we are established by the divine will as a ruler on Earth (230, 6165), we have the same duty than the them, to establish/obey/carry out the divine laws, the God's system.

I'd like to know your understanding of tasbeeh in the light of the Reading?

Thanks in advance

Peace marie

well, i have to say that the angels have no choices therefore their tasbih is not opposed to shedding blood , tather an expressions that they do whatever Allah told them to do, one of these things is glorfying him by Tasbeeh, the Quran clearly showed us that the Tasbeeh is a saying action by different creatures, there is an article that i'm preparing now which which will tackle this problem

Allah himself said Subhanahumany times in the Quran about Himself, this is enough to refute your claim

Peace

thanks

marie

peace Ahmed,

I disagree with you when you said that tasbeeh can only be done by words

please note that the order "Kabbar" is identical to the Order "Sabbah" both can only be done by words

I think it is not only verbal tasbeeh.

well, i have to say that the angels have no choices therefore their tasbih is not opposed to shedding blood , tather an expressions that they do whatever Allah told them to do, one of these things is glorfying him by Tasbeeh, the Quran clearly showed us that the Tasbeeh is a saying action by different creatures.

I respect your understanding but I don't share it. We can diverge in our understanding and reading of the Reading.

The God knows best

there is an article that i'm preparing now which which will tackle this problem

I will be glad to read it.

Thanks

Peace