MANIFESTO for Islamic Reform
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Ok, it doesn't start with an 'umma of believers'. It starts with one man, the messenger.
the messenger calls people to serve Allah. He then fulfils the role of the messenger (3/164) and (57/9) and also leads them in engagement in the world.
From here, the umma is formed.
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SaLaM mquran
Interesting. Ok, what if, this messenger was teaching something that went against your belief. You say RK was teaching sunnism - hadiths, but what if that is the right way? Would you beleive he is the leader?
( i have no associationg with RK or his teaching, im just using him as a reference )
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Interesting. Ok, what if, this messenger was teaching something that went against your belief. You say RK was teaching sunnism - hadiths, but what if that is the right way? Would you beleive he is the leader?
If a messenger came to me and preached what messengers before preached, yes I would. I've not met anyone to that effect at all. Remember that the messenger did TILAWAATUL KITAB (practice of the book) and not just bla bla'ed about it.
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Lollllllll . Ok but i asked you, say a messenger comes to you and preaches that Kabbah IS the place where God asked us to make pilgrimage and that it IS in Makkah as we know it today. Would you beleive him and accept him as your leader?
He'd have to do better than you at presenting evidence..Lolllll (since you think this is a laughing matter).
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So now his messengership and leadership rests on how he does a presentation? what happened to the killing of the armies of God to prove his wisdom and power?
What you need to do is, read the Quran for yourself. Its not a closed book and the stories of the messengers are clear. Read the story of Bani Israil from beginning to end please. From the start of the messengership of Musa, to how it evolves into Bani Israil, to how they ascend in the land to how David attains power.
As for how he does a 'presentation', please note that you have to speak to the people. no mention of ms-powerpoint is mentioned..Lollll.
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SaLaM mquran
Its just that you keep changing your criteria of this leader. First he had to destroy armies to prove he has power and wisdom. Then he has to preach the same religion as yours. And now, he has to have good presentation skills. Like God cares if you believe in his messenger or not.
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Its just that you keep changing your criteria of this leader. First he had to destroy armies to prove he has power and wisdom. Then he has to preach the same religion as yours. And now, he has to have good presentation skills. Like God cares if you believe in his messenger or not
The answer changed because, in case you haven't noticed, the QUESTION changed. The initial discussion was about how a king ascended into power FROM AMONG BANI ISRAIL . Then you asked about an 'ummah of quranic believers' (another concept you will never find in al-quraan, quite a specialty of yours, non-existent concepts) . That changed the trajectory of discussion. So far, as I observe is very typical with you, you haven't quoted A SINGLE VERSE OF THE QURAN. Is there any point in continuing then if the quran isn't even worth you quoting it once? Where in the Quran is your 'democratically' (sic)- elected leader , I might ask ? Did any personality in the Quran to go to believers, let alone humankind and say 'pick me, pick me' ? Do some reading Jaxal, please.
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The answer changed because, in case you haven't noticed, the QUESTION changed.
I think Jaxal Questions remained the same. It is you who have not worked out the implications of the question.
Now you are saying Jaxal to read the Quran as if that will answer the question for you. I say this is a cop-out.
Regards,
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I think Jaxal Questions remained the same. It is you who have not worked out the implications of the questions.
Ok tell us what the issue is, please. What is the objective of this discussion.
Now you are saying Jaxal to read the Quran as if that will answer the question for you. I say this is a cop-out
Reading the Quran is a process which somehow or other gets involved in the business of being a muslim. When you - who can't even tell us what a Muslim is- say 'cop out' , it wouldnt really hold much weight.
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SaLaM mquran
No brother, the question didnt change. Argument was, how will a leader be selected. You kept saying he will have to defeat the armies of God like David, to prove his power and wisdom. I said ok, well there is a ummah now, how will they choose a leader. This is where your answer changed. Now, in adition to defeating armies of God, he has to has other skills in order to prove he is a leader / messenger / whatever sent from God.
I said, ok, what if there is a country full of the muslim ummah, how will they choose a leader. You said the geographical something something shouldnt matter. Ok, well there is a ummah all around the world. Who is there leader? How will they chooose their leader? So far, brother, you havent answer it. Your adding qualities that the person must have to be a leader / messenger of whatever it is that you want this person to be.
So, the question is still the same, its the answer that keeps changing.